Help picking out Universal Remote (Logitech Harmony?)

[Dochartaigh]

I'm having a hell of a time choosing a universal remote (been thinking of getting one for a couple years now). Ideally I would like one which can control IR and RF (Radio Frequency) devices, and the kicker is it NEEDS to work in TWO different rooms. Most people say Logitech Harmony but every time I research them another model is out, the one I was looking at before is discontinued, they take out IR functionality out of the handheld remote itself in newer ones, and just gets more confusing and confusing with all the add on devices, hubs, IR extenders, etc. etc. etc. I mean, I can't even friggin find out if they can even control RF devices or not (like I just googled this again and the ones which can seem to be discontinued? - why would they take this out? Don't most higher end TV's use RF remotes now?)

Do we have any pros here who can help me pick one out?

I'm totally confused about how the little IR hub, placed in a cabinet, could physically reach all my IR devices, especially in different rooms, and I don't want to have to place like 5x different IR extenders to the different devices. I couldn't even place the hub outside of my entertainment center since like most peoples living rooms it goes Couch > Coffee Table > TV, and I can't be running wires to the coffee table for the hub or people would trip over them (tile floor and no carpet even...so hiding wouldn't work either).

Anyway, I listed below the devices in two rooms, including which devices I really don't have to control if it's not possible (lots of RF devices in that group). I'm having a hard time even finding out if my TCL TV's remote is IR or RF...(like I can sometimes cover the front and it works...which leads me to believe RF, but my other TCL of the same era doesn't seem to work that way with the same exact remote...).


LIVING ROOM 1:
Denon AVR-X3300W Receiver (IR)
TCL 65R617 4K Roku TV (RF? Not sure)
Sony KV-25DXR (XBR) Consumer CRT TV (IR - and NO original remote to learn from)

ones I could live without controlling with universal remote:

Spoiler

TV Bias Lighting (RF)
Late 2012 Mac Mini with Apple Remote (IR, maybe RF?, can't tell)
Panasonic AG-500R (IR)
Xbox One (bluetooth?)
Xbox 360 (RF? 5ghz?)

GAME ROOM:
TCL 49S517 4K Roku TV (not sure if RF or IR, think IR)
Sony PVM-3230 CRT TV (IR)
Panasonic DT-M3050W Multiformat CRT (IR)
Framemeister XRGB-mini (IR)
OSSC (IR)
Vorke 4x1 HDMI Switcher (RF)
Bose Acoustimas 10? like 1995ish (RF, or similar - def NOT IR)

ones I could live without controlling with universal remote

Spoiler

Monivision SK-5952KF 480p+ CRT monitor (IR, and NO original remote to learn from)
TVOne Corio2 video scaler (IR)
Console rack LED lighting (RF)
CRT bias lighting (RF)

[PixelDharma]

I think most current Harmony devices work through the Hub, and there’s actually only been one basic Hub for years. There are different remotes/keyboards etc that are bundled with it and pair to it, some of which unlock the use of more devices on it (8 or 16). But it’s basically the one device. Actually I didn’t even buy a physical remote with mine. I have a keyboard for it, but the majority of control is done through my phone app or Google Home.

I’m not too sure if it would be appropriate for multiple rooms if you have IR devices in both of them. Maybe two Harmony Hubs would serve this need. But I wouldn’t worry about the reach of the Harmony for a single room. The thing is that it floods the room with the IR signal. You wouldn’t put it on the coffee table, you’d place it beside the TV or something and as long as the IR device is within the room, it will probably reach it. You definitely have to run an IR extender to stuff hidden behind solid cabinet doors.. but you might be overestimating how many devices actually need IR. Maybe TV, AV Receiver, a Framemeister, OSSC and Xbox 360 need it. The rest can be controlled through Bluetooth (including most consoles after 2005). With my setup, 3 IR devices are out in the open and the Hub will reach them, and 2 are in the cabinet where I run a single IR extender (which was included). You can add a second IR receiver if you need for a second cabinet.

I don’t have a cutting edge modern TV but I don’t actually know anything that uses RF these days. I think most things that use RF have IR anyway. IR and Bluetooth seem to cover 99% of all devices. But I could be wrong about that. Your oldschool Bose thing might be the exception... I think everyone else would have an IR receiver no doubt.

And don’t worry about not having a remote to learn from. You can just search for your device in the app. I’d be surprised to find a device not served by this.

In short, I’d say go for a Hub. I’ve had one for 3-4 years, and it’s still one of the best devices I’ve ever bought for my setup (and the Google Home integration is next level, if you’re into that kind of thing). Try it out in your setup and see if it’s really as limited by your setup as you think. The multiple rooms thing is really the trick. Short of a strategically placed Hub or Ir extender, or moving all IR devices to one room... I guess you would need two.

[Unseen]

and the kicker is it NEEDS to work in TWO different rooms.

This mostly rules out using a single Harmony remote or at least makes the configuration very complicated if you want to use both rooms at the same time. Their system assumes that it is in full control of all power states and inputs at all times, which is important for devices that don't have discrete codes for power or input selection. You would need to make sure that you power down one room completely before moving the remote to the other one.

(Discrete code means that the device has an IR command that selects an input or power state directly, no matter what the current state is - if a TV only has a power toggle, the remote must know if the TV is currently on or off to bring it into the desired state. Same for inputs, if a TV can only pop up an input selection menu where you can navigate up or down, the remote must know which input is currently selected to know how many up/down inputs it needs to send to select the desired one. Discrete codes may be available even if the original remote cannot generate them.)

Don't most higher end TV's use RF remotes now?

I know a not-that-high-end Samsung TV that comes with a Bluetooth remote but still includes an IR receiver. I would expect that the same is true especially in the high-end TV marked because the additional cost does not matter that much there and it provides a competitive advantage because people who spend a lot of money on their TV are also more likely to have spent a lot of money on an automation solution that could rely on IR.

Also, as far as I know there is no true universal RF remote - there are just too many RF "standards" to cover them all.

I'm totally confused about how the little IR hub, placed in a cabinet, could physically reach all my IR devices

Using extenders - but placing the hub in a cabinet and extenders outside would be a bad idea because the hub puts out a lot more IR light than the extenders.

I couldn't even place the hub outside of my entertainment center since like most peoples living rooms it goes Couch > Coffee Table > TV, and I can't be running wires to the coffee table for the hub or people would trip over them (tile floor and no carpet even...so hiding wouldn't work either).

Why would you event want to place the hub on your coffee table? As long as it can blast out enough IR into the room so all devices can receive it (even indirectly, e.g. my TV has no line-of-sight between its IR receiver and the hub, so it probably bounces on the walls and ceiling), it should be good. Of course this goes out of the window as soon as you absolutely require an extender because you've got an obstruction like a cabinet door in front of your device as the extender needs to be plugged into the hub - it's just an IR-emitting diode in a small plastic case that needs to be plugged into the hub.

Sony KV-25DXR (XBR) Consumer CRT TV (IR - and NO original remote to learn from)

In the Harmony system you rarely learn codes from an existing remote because Logitech has a pretty large database.

Late 2012 Mac Mini with Apple Remote (IR, maybe RF?, can't tell)

IR

Xbox One (bluetooth?)
Xbox 360 (RF? 5ghz?)

Both Xboxes still support IR remotes.

Bose Acoustimas 10? like 1995ish (RF, or similar - def NOT IR)

Correct, although there are claims on the net that some Bose systems can be switched from RF to IR.

Also, if you still want to go for Harmony, make sure you know what you are getting into. It isn't meant as a "put X remotes into one and switch to the one you neeed right now" system as many of the low-end ones are, even though there is an option to do that if you need some rarely-used function. The concept of the Harmony system is to create a number of activities, e.g. "Watch TV", "Listen to CD", "Watch Bluray", "Play Game on <console>", which each have a set of devices that is needed to do them, the input selections needed for each one and a set of IR command to remote button mappings. Switching from one activity to another by default powers down all devices not needed for that activity, but that is configurable - I turned it off for all my consoles. If that concept does not work for you for some reason - and I suspect that is the case because you asked about two rooms - then Harmony probably isn't for you.

[Syntax]

The harmony is really annoying to use, you only get a set number of slots to program for your devices.

You need to log into a cloud to download a profile for each device you are using. WTF?

Its such a stupid setup, logging into cloud when the entire library of remote controls codes can be stored in a tiny text file.

A $5 remote from a bargin shop has self learn function and all the codes stored in it so yeah Logitech can ead on that one imo.

An Arduino and some intuition and one of us could make something much better.

[maxtherabbit]

if you need multiple rooms, you're pretty much in the realm of something like URC or PROcontrol

[Dochartaigh]

Thank you for the detailed replies everyone - it's making me rethink my needs.

To make a long story (kinda) short I'm ONLY looking for a universal remote because my 80's Sony KV-25DXR CRT TV I just got needs one to access the service menu, and since the Logitech Harmony is the only one (I think) which has this obscure model in it's database (which I'm still pretty sure will NOT have all the commands I need sadly, and it's impossible to get the original remote to program/learn from) I figure if I'm going to buy one to try I might as well buy a nice one and try to get rid of these other 10+ remotes I use in my house.

So RF is out. Did some poking around (and scientifically putting the remote in my pocket and seeing if it still worked and I think the only one that uses RF (or similar) is that old Bose remote - and that receiver is on it's last legs anyway and will prob be replaced sometime soon.

That leads me to need ONLY an IR remote. But since I want to use it in TWO rooms, I need a remote that actually has an IR sensor on the remote itself, and NOT just in the hub (think that would be the easiest way to go about this - I can not run a cable 60' through the walls to the 2nd room for an IR extender there, and am not buying 2x $200+ systems - one for each room).

Do any models have: A.) have built in IR on the remote itself so I can go from room to room, and B.) Let me use my smartphone in conjunction with the IR remote (as there's evidentially 12 pages! of buttons on the app for the CRT TV's remote). I'm kinda doubting any do this since the smartphone would be linked to the IR hub (NOT the remote itself, right?).

Since I'm pretty sure none do the above, I'm now thinking of just picking up a $50 Harmony 665, then programming it with my computer to see if I can even control my CRT TV with it and access the service menu. Only other option (with IR on the remote itself) seems to be the $200 Harmony 950 model which only really gives me a fancier touchscreen from what I can tell.

[ldeveraux]

The harmony is really annoying to use, you only get a set number of slots to program for your devices.

You need to log into a cloud to download a profile for each device you are using. WTF?

Its such a stupid setup, logging into cloud when the entire library of remote controls codes can be stored in a tiny text file.

A $5 remote from a bargin shop has self learn function and all the codes stored in it so yeah Logitech can ead on that one imo.

An Arduino and some intuition and one of us could make something much better.

That's why I use the original Harmony One remote. I have 2: one for my main current gaming setup, and one for my retro gaming setup. If Harmony still made equivalent remotes, I'd buy them, but this one is the best.

[maxtherabbit]

The biggest limitation of harmony is the inability to directly hex edit IR codes, if your thing is not in their DB (or a detail is off) there's nothing you can do without an original remote

[ZellSF]

The biggest limitation of harmony is the inability to directly hex edit IR codes, if your thing is not in their DB (or a detail is off) there's nothing you can do without an original remote

You can do it. I have, at least for pre-myHarmony remotes. I wouldn't recommend it. Supposedly Logitech support is also very helpful. I wouldn't recommend that either.

If you don't have a very standard setup, I would just be prepared for lots of pain configuring a Harmony remote.

[ldeveraux]

The biggest limitation of harmony is the inability to directly hex edit IR codes, if your thing is not in their DB (or a detail is off) there's nothing you can do without an original remote

This is why I get original remotes for my devices if I can!

[maxtherabbit]

The biggest limitation of harmony is the inability to directly hex edit IR codes, if your thing is not in their DB (or a detail is off) there's nothing you can do without an original remote

You can do it. I have, at least for pre-myHarmony remotes.

I have no experience with pre-myharmony

the oldest one I have is a 650 and I'm not aware of any way to use it without myharmony

[ldeveraux]

I have no experience with pre-myharmony

the oldest one I have is a 650 and I'm not aware of any way to use it without myharmony

I'm pretty sure you can use the 650 with the Logitech Harmony Remote software instead of MyHarmony (which is terrible). I use LRH for the Harmony One which are similar generation. Maybe?
https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Sy ... ware.shtml

[MarkOZLAD]

For my CRT hobby work I use standalone harmony remotes (mostly older ones I've bought from online marketplaces) and then use them to program l336 learning remotes. You can get them for about $3 from ali express.

For day to day use I have two standalone harmony remotes, but I stay clear of any with LED screens. I currently have two 350 models. I like them but not as much as the previous model I had which only had three input selector buttons (don't know the model).

The smart functions where they try and keep track of whether the TV is already on can be annoying.

[Dochartaigh]

Just an update to this: since there wasn't the buttons I needed in the ~13 pages of screenshots from the Harmony App for my Sony KV-25DXR I decided to go old school, and go through my box of old remotes to work the 25DXR. Was able to access the service menu (after flipping the required service switch which is inside the case) by using two different remote controls, which let me do everything I needed from the on-screen menu.

...so I basically gave up on getting a universal remote control lol. Would be nice for my other devices but seems like more work to do something which should be simple