C-sync mods for consoles

[RetroBVM]

What consoles have mods available to output c-sync and what cables would I have to use on such modified consoles?

Of the top of my head, there are: Super Nintendo (PAL), NES / Famicom, N64 (PAL/NTSC), Sega Saturn (PAL), PS, PS2, Gamecube (PAL) any others?

[Lawfer]

What consoles have mods available to output c-sync

PS1, PS2 (citrus3000psi came up with this mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8A91z6_7-g), Wii, Nintendo 64, PC Engine etc.

and what cables would I have to use on such modified consoles?

That depends on the mod really.

If the mod replaces composite with c-sync, you will need a sync-on-composite cable, if it's something else like a Wii modded with WiiDual that had a c-sync mod on D-Terminal2 you will need the Retro-Access WiiDual c-sync cable, for Nintendo 64 you will need an RGB mod and the cable will need to have C-Sync wired on pin 3 (I think?), so you will need a C-Sync cable from either Retro-Access or Retro Gaming Cables.

[Link83]

Here is a list I made for myself a while ago:-

NES/Famicom - 75ohm CSYNC with NESRGB mod.
SNES/Super Famicom - 75ohm CSYNC with Dejitter mod (LVTTL CSYNC as stock only on NTSC consoles, except SNES Mini and 1CHIP-03) Or use Sync on Luma instead.
Nintendo 64 - 75ohm CSYNC with N64RGB or N64 Advanced mod (LVTTL CSYNC as stock only on early NTSC consoles)
GameCube - 75ohm CSYNC with GCDual mod or EON GCHD Mk-II.
Wii - 75ohm CSYNC with WiiDual mod.

Mega Drive 1/2/32X - TTL CSYNC as stock, attenuate in cable.
Sega Saturn - TTL CSYNC as stock only on NTSC consoles, attenuate in cable. Available on PAL consoles with internal mod, or use Sync on Luma instead.
Dreamcast - 75ohm CSYNC as stock only for 15kHz modes. For both 15kHz and 31kHz modes use Retro-Access/RGC cable which combines HSYNC/VSYNC inside plug.

PlayStation - TTL CSYNC available from internal DAC/Encoder (CXA1645M sync input pin on early models) attenuate with internal mod, or use Sync on Luma instead.
PlayStation 2 - TTL CSYNC available from internal DAC/Encoder, attenuate with internal mod.

-Note- PAL SNES, PAL GameCube and PAL Saturn all have +9-12V instead of CSYNC on the same AV port pin, so if you switch systems often it may be worth wiring your cables to use Sync on Luma instead for safety.

Somebody please let me know if any of these are incorrect?

<EDIT> Also worth noting that for unmodded SNES/Super Famicom, Sega Saturn and PlayStation consoles you may as well just use Sync on Luma instead of CSYNC, since CSYNC will offer very little benefit.

[maxtherabbit]

Here is a list I made for myself a while ago:-

AV Famicom - 75ohm CSYNC with NESRGB mod
Super Famicom - 75ohm CSYNC with Dejitter mod (LVTTL CSYNC as stock only on NTSC consoles, except SNES Mini)
Nintendo 64 - 75ohm CSYNC with N64RGB mod (LVTTL CSYNC as stock only on early NTSC consoles)
GameCube - 75ohm CSYNC with GCDual mod
Wii - 75ohm CSYNC with WiiDual mod

Mega Drive 2 / 32X - TTL CSYNC as stock, attenuate in cable.
Sega Saturn - TTL CSYNC as stock only on NTSC consoles, attenuate in cable. Available internally on PAL consoles
Dreamcast - 75ohm CSYNC as stock only for 15kHz modes (For both 15kHz and 31kHz modes use RetroAccess/RGC cable which combines HSYNC / VSYNC inside plug)

PlayStation - TTL CSYNC available from internal DAC
PlayStation 2 - TTL CSYNC available from internal DAC

-Note- PAL SNES, GameCube and Saturn all have +9-12V instead of CSYNC on the same AV port pin, so if you switch systems often it may be worth wiring your cable to use Sync on Luma instead for safety.

Somebody please let me know if any of these are incorrect?

or just don't ever buy PAL consoles for maximum safety

[Link83]

-Note- PAL SNES, GameCube and Saturn all have +9-12V instead of CSYNC on the same AV port pin, so if you switch systems often it may be worth wiring your cable to use Sync on Luma instead for safety.

or just don't ever buy PAL consoles for maximum safety

I understand your point and I agree in principal, however the problem is the different power requirements. If you live in an area with 230V mains you would need to use a stepdown with many NTSC 110V systems.

For example both the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast have an internal PSU and would require a stepdown, unless you replaced the internal PSU with a PicoPSU - however the only drop-in PicoPSU replacements I know about have had manufacturing problems and are unavailable. You couldn't even use an NTSC SNES/SFC with a PAL SNES PSU, not only because of the plug differences, but also because the PAL SNES uses AC, whilst the NTSC SNES/SFC use DC.

It can quickly get quite confusing when your juggling between different region systems - I have seen a number of broken NTSC 110V systems which have been accidentally connected to the 230V mains.

[RetroBVM]

-Note- PAL SNES, GameCube and Saturn all have +9-12V instead of CSYNC on the same AV port pin, so if you switch systems often it may be worth wiring your cable to use Sync on Luma instead for safety.

or just don't ever buy PAL consoles for maximum safety

I understand your point and I agree in principal, however the problem is the different power requirements. If you live in an area with 230V mains you would need to use a stepdown with many NTSC 110V systems.

For example both the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast have an internal PSU and would require a stepdown, unless you replaced the internal PSU with a PicoPSU - however the only drop in PicoPSU replacements I know about have had manufacturing problems and are unavailable. You couldn't even use an NTSC SNES/SFC with an PAL SNES PSU, not only because of the plug differences, but also because the PAL SNES uses AC, whilst the NTSC SNES/SFC use DC.

It can quickly get quite confusing when your juggling between different region systems - I have seen a number of broken NTSC 110V systems which have been accidentally connected to the 230V mains.

Thanks for the extensive list. Im going the c-sync route because I want to use an extron matrix switcher to control the whole setup and I don' like the use of sync strippers in the chain.

Power wise on the NTSC and JAP consoles, can the original external psu just be switched for a "moder switching psu"?

[nmalinoski]

Dreamcast - 75ohm CSYNC as stock only for 15kHz modes (For both 15kHz and 31kHz modes use Retro-Access/RGC cable which combines HSYNC/VSYNC inside plug)

What's neat about the Dreamcast is that, according to gamesx, both clean composite sync and separate HV sync are available when in 15kHz RGB modes.

[maxtherabbit]

Dreamcast - 75ohm CSYNC as stock only for 15kHz modes (For both 15kHz and 31kHz modes use Retro-Access/RGC cable which combines HSYNC/VSYNC inside plug)

What's neat about the Dreamcast is that, according to gamesx, both clean composite sync and separate HV sync are available when in 15kHz RGB modes.

I can personally verify 15kHz RGBHV works on the dreamcast

It's a shame that it shuts off composite sync in 31kHz mode

Really no good reason for it

[FinalBaton]

I asked before and couldn't get a solid answer so :

I have a Sufami 1CHIP-03 and wanted to know if there was a consensus on what's the best way to mod it for CSYNC output? Also while I'm in there ,is there a consensus for the values for components to put on the RGB lines? That console's signal is hooooooooot AF

Did Tim ever recommend something on the matter?

[Sefirosu789]

PlayStation - TTL CSYNC available from internal DAC, attenuate with internal mod.

Hey do you have any documentation on how to mod a Playstation for Csync? I think my mobo is PU-8. I couldn't find much myself.

[Link83]

I asked before and couldn't get a solid answer so :

I have a Sufami 1CHIP-03 and wanted to know if there was a consensus on what's the best way to mod it for CSYNC output? Also while I'm in there ,is there a consensus for the values for components to put on the RGB lines? That console's signal is hooooooooot AF

Did Tim ever recommend something on the matter?

Whilst you could restore the missing components so that it outputs LVTTL CSYNC, IMO it would be a much better idea to use a Dejitter mod to increase compatibility, which depending on the design you choose often have a 75ohm CSYNC output option. Arthrimus has a board design, and borti4938 has a design too, i'm going for the borti board as I really appreciate the extra features like the SuperCIC and uIGR, but the choice is yours.

To fix the 'hot' RGB lines on 1CHIP's, you could use an RGB bypass board, however apparently the best way to fix it is to replace resistor R3 on the motherboard with a 1.74k resistor (Or for SNES Mini use 1.69k) <EDIT>For more details see borti's github here, under "Brightness and Ghosting Issues".

In addition if you experience ghosting at all you can replace C11 with a higher value capacitor up to 470nf, however the higher the value you choose the more of the first lines of video will dissapear.

Other optional fixes I have read about (Such as for the vertical line issue) include replacing the 7805 voltage regulator with a 78S05, replacing capacitor C61 (Exact number depends on revision) with an upgraded 22uF, soldering a 1000uF capacitor (min. 25V) to C58 (C52 on SNES Mini), and soldering a 470uF capacitor to the voltage regulator. However if you cant see any issues with the video signal I wouldn't bother with any of these.

[fernan1234]

Dreamcast - 75ohm CSYNC as stock only for 15kHz modes (For both 15kHz and 31kHz modes use Retro-Access/RGC cable which combines HSYNC/VSYNC inside plug)

What's neat about the Dreamcast is that, according to gamesx, both clean composite sync and separate HV sync are available when in 15kHz RGB modes.

31kHz RGBS would be useful for multiformat monitor users. I do know you can get 15kHz RGBHV from any regular Dreamcast VGA cable by lifting pin 6 from the cable connector, since that's the pin that turns 31kHz mode on. Perhaps something similar could be done to keep RGBS at 31kHz.

[Link83]

PlayStation - TTL CSYNC available from internal DAC, attenuate with internal mod.

Hey do you have any documentation on how to mod a Playstation for Csync? I think my mobo is PU-8. I couldn't find much myself.

Unfortunately I cant help too much as I only have a PU-20 which has a CSYNC output available on the DAC, but I do know the PU-8 motherboard has various sub-revisions (e.g. -11, -21) and depending on the sub-revision the video circuit is fairly different.

However up until the SCPH-7000 series all PlayStation models used the same CXA1645M video encoder, which has CSYNC input on pin 10. I dont know what Vpp value this is, so ideally someone with a scope would need to check before using it directly, however at least one person appears to have already performed this mod (Think they were just guessing with the component values though)

[maxtherabbit]

Dreamcast - 75ohm CSYNC as stock only for 15kHz modes (For both 15kHz and 31kHz modes use Retro-Access/RGC cable which combines HSYNC/VSYNC inside plug)

What's neat about the Dreamcast is that, according to gamesx, both clean composite sync and separate HV sync are available when in 15kHz RGB modes.

31kHz RGBS would be useful for multiformat monitor users. I do know you can get 15kHz RGBHV from any regular Dreamcast VGA cable by lifting pin 6 from the cable connector, since that's the pin that turns 31kHz mode on. Perhaps something similar could be done to keep RGBS at 31kHz.

unfortunately not, no combination of logic states on the 2 mode select pins will produce a 31kHz composite sync output

the only way is to combine them externally like citrus3000psi did in his circuit for the RA cable

[Classicgamer]

You don't need to bother with sync mods. Just get a scart to bnc adapter with a built in syncstrike (off ebay). Then buy a $15 Extron RGB interface and bingo, no more sync related issues.

If you live in Europe and use a scart TV, you don't need to bother. Most (or maybe all) consoles with RGB out will work with a regular scart cable on your TV directly.

Aside from monitor compatibility, there is no other reason to change from one type of sync to another. The type of sync makes no visible difference to the image.

[FinalBaton]

I asked before and couldn't get a solid answer so :

I have a Sufami 1CHIP-03 and wanted to know if there was a consensus on what's the best way to mod it for CSYNC output? Also while I'm in there ,is there a consensus for the values for components to put on the RGB lines? That console's signal is hooooooooot AF

Did Tim ever recommend something on the matter?

Whilst you could restore the missing components so that it outputs LVTTL CSYNC, IMO it would be a much better idea to use a Deijitter mod to increase compatability, which depending on the design you choose often have a 75ohm CSYNC output option. Arthrimus has a board design, and borti4938 has a design too, i'm going for the borti board as I really appreciate the extra features like the SuperCIC and uIGR, but the choice is yours.

To fix the 'hot' RGB lines on 1CHIP's, you could use an RGB bypass board, however apparently the best way to fix it is to replace resistor R3 on the motherboard with 1.74k (Or for SNES Mini use 1.69k)

In addition if you experience ghosting at all you can replace C11 with a higher value capacitor up to 470nf, however the higher the value you choose the more of the first lines of video will dissapear.

Other optional fixes I have read about (Such as for the vertical line issue) include replacing the 7805 voltage regulator with a 78S05, replacing capacitor C61 (Exact number depends on revision) with an upgraded 22uF, and soldering a 1000uF capacitor (min. 25V) to C58 (C52 on SNES Mini) However if you cant see any issues with the video signal I wouldn't bother with any of these.

Thanks a ton Link83!

[Syntax]

Aside from monitor compatibility, there is no other reason to change from one type of sync to another. The type of sync makes no visible difference to the image.

Even with good sheilded cable the subcarrier signal in the composite video line will couple with the rgb lines and cause a crosshatch effect that looks like dithering.
At a minimum Luma is preferred. It does not contain the nasty subcarrier.

[Lawfer]

Even with good sheilded cable the subcarrier signal in the composite video line will couple with the rgb lines and cause a crosshatch effect that looks like dithering.
At a minimum Luma is preferred. It does not contain the nasty subcarrier.

Yep! But c-sync is also better in a way because it's faster as it's pure sync versus luma which isn't. But if your console can only do at best (without a mod) luma, then might as well go for that.

[Guspaz]

It's... not faster... It's the same sync signal...

[Syntax]

Depending on where it is sourced from csync usually does reach its destination faster (earlier?) than rgb or other sync signals.
For instance a MD amps RGB but not csync, so csync avoids the amps minuscule processing delay.