Cheap Plasma HDTV or wait?

[Shelcoof]

I've been seeing tons of old Plasma HDTVs on local classifieds lately and I've been tempted to pick one or two up for gaming.

I hear Plasma offers image quality closer to a CRT and blur isn't really an issue.

So my question here is that should I pick a cheap one up or wait for something better like OLED?

Most important thing for me is input lag followed by image quality.

I intend to hook up all my game systems to the Plasma TV

PS3/Xbox 360
Retro Consoles via the OSSC

Any input would be awesome

[NoAffinity]

Advantages of plasmas: native retro inputs like s video, composite, and usually component and hdmi as well. Possibly also VGA. Image and color clarity can be better than other technologies.

Disadvatages: 720p/1080i typically. I think its safe to assume no plasma will be low lag. Also, plasmas are getting pretty old now. Dead pixels, loss of image quality and other result of aging may be an issue.

From personal expericence, I just got rid of a plasma, with everything as noted above. Also if an ossc will be in play line mode support was limited.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Ikaruga11]

Just wait for OLEDs to get better. They're better in every way.

[Gara]

You're going to see a little lag no matter which model. Motion blur will definitely look better than most other offering. You also sacrifice image quality for low lag. You have to disable pretty much everything. It's up to you to decide. On really Cinematic games like The Last Of Us I used normal movie settings. Input lag was noticeable but it sure looked nice.


I think it's worth it depending on which Plasma model. If you can get your hands on a cheap Pioneer Kuro or Samsung F8500 then heck yeah. Both are still holding up well. The Kuro's are really old by this point but people generally took good care of these sets. Don't pay too much. At some point it makes more sense to put that towards an OLED.


My main is an F8500 60". 5X mode on the OSSC works great. I do most of my retro stuff on a PVM but the OSSC is a great pairing. For when I want a bigger screen it works wonderful. PC, PS3, PS4 also look great. I am tempted by the 2018 LG OLED but that temptation is for movie watching.

[bobrocks95]

Just wait for OLEDs to get better. They're better in every way.

Except motion resolution and price. They aren't everything but they're still 2 very important areas. The reason that people say they have a look closer to CRTs as OP mentioned is because they're the only other impulse-driven displays besides CRTs.

[Shelcoof]

Advantages of plasmas: native retro inputs like s video, composite, and usually component and hdmi as well. Possibly also VGA. Image and color clarity can be better than other technologies.

Disadvatages: 720p/1080i typically. I think its safe to assume no plasma will be low lag. Also, plasmas are getting pretty old now. Dead pixels, loss of image quality and other result of aging may be an issue.

From personal expericence, I just got rid of a plasma, with everything as noted above. Also if an ossc will be in play line mode support was limited.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

When you put it that way....it's hard to even consider a Plasma at this point.

I guess it's sort of the same thing when considering a PVM/BVM. So many issues to look out for. But at least for me the Plasma's are pretty dirt cheap or at least not going to break the bank at all.

Just wait for OLEDs to get better. They're better in every way.

After playing on my Model 1 Vita.... yhaa OLED would be something to consider down the road.
But these Plasma's are like less than 100$... vs 1000$ plus.

Maybe 100$ is too much for a Plasma at the moment.. we talking Canadian Dollars here

You're going to see a little lag no matter which model. Motion blur will definitely look better than most other offering. You also sacrifice image quality for low lag. You have to disable pretty much everything. It's up to you to decide. On really Cinematic games like The Last Of Us I used normal movie settings. Input lag was noticeable but it sure looked nice.


I think it's worth it depending on which Plasma model. If you can get your hands on a cheap Pioneer Kuro or Samsung F8500 then heck yeah. Both are still holding up well. The Kuro's are really old by this point but people generally took good care of these sets. Don't pay too much. At some point it makes more sense to put that towards an OLED.


My main is an F8500 60". 5X mode on the OSSC works great. I do most of my retro stuff on a PVM but the OSSC is a great pairing. For when I want a bigger screen it works wonderful. PC, PS3, PS4 also look great. I am tempted by the 2018 LG OLED but that temptation is for movie watching.

I see Pioneer Kuro and Samsung [Forget the model number] in the local listings. How much would you say they are worth now?

Just wait for OLEDs to get better. They're better in every way.

Except motion resolution and price. They aren't everything but they're still 2 very important areas. The reason that people say they have a look closer to CRTs as OP mentioned is because they're the only other impulse-driven displays besides CRTs.

Yes... even on my BenQ with 1ms response time... a CRT kills it with with motion blur.
It is soo smooth on a CRT and with 1ms response time there's still a ton of blur playing Sonic the hedge hog!

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I doubt your BenQ has 1 ms edit: input lag (which often gets confused with response time) at 60hz. I think you are getting it confused with Grey to Grey (G2G).

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I don't think any plasma will have less than one frame of lag simply due to how it refreshes the screen (usually 600Hz? which is 60hz times 10 times). The benefit however is that the input lag at the top of the screen, middle, and bottom will all be the same since it refreshes at the same time iirc. You can't really say the same about LCD/OLED (which the top will be the fastest, bottom slowest). The difference between the top and bottom can be pretty drastic too.

plasmas can be nice but they aren't perfect. They still have phosphor trails for those that see them, banding on certain high contrast things (https://tinyurl.com/ybxhdb8f), and input lag can be decent (like on my panasonic G10) or terrible.

I am definitely due for an upgrade but my stipulations are pretty high (sub 1 frame, OSSC compatibility, and at least 50 inches)

[Shelcoof]

The one I have is here.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01H5K ... UTF8&psc=1

So.... what your saying is that this model here is misleading?


I'm not looking to upgrade... I just see cheap Plasmas and I'm thinking I could turn it into something cool for gaming.

Not planning on dropping any serious cash on new TVs any time soon.

Edit Update: So I looked up more info on the monitor and your right one of source mentioned 1ms GTG I assume Grey To Grey. Any reason why they would mention that?

Not sure what the standards are when measuring response time.

[orange808]

I doubt your BenQ has 1 ms response time at 60hz. I think you are getting it confused with Grey to Grey (G2G).

A panel's response times won't vary based on refresh rate. Also, no manufacturer shares any true real world response time information, so G2G is the best info we have. Regardless, I own a pair of BenQ displays and the response time is very fast. Persistence blur is the problem at 60Hz. When you see the huge color and viewing angle tradeoffs, you'll know how they managed to get them so fast.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I don't think any plasma will have less than one frame of lag simply due to how it refreshes the screen (usually 600Hz? which is 60hz times 10 times). The benefit however is that the input lag at the top of the screen, middle, and bottom will all be the same since it refreshes at the same time iirc. You can't really say the same about LCD/OLED (which the top will be the fastest, bottom slowest). The difference between the top and bottom can be pretty drastic too.

Most new LED displays can and do draw each frame very quickly. A CRT draws a frame in 16.6ms. Because the LED draws the frame faster than that, it can (and very often does) recover some of the initial (top) display latency time during refresh in comparison to a CRT. In many cases, the difference between the top and bottom total display latency numbers isn't drastic at all. LCD's draw fast these days.

[Lawfer]

Advantages of plasmas: native retro inputs like s video, composite, and usually component and hdmi as well. Possibly also VGA.

LCD HDTV did have such support. At least the models in Europe did have Scart for RGB and S-Video etc, it also had VGA and Component.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

The one I have is here.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01H5K ... UTF8&psc=1

So.... what your saying is that this model here is misleading?


I'm not looking to upgrade... I just see cheap Plasmas and I'm thinking I could turn it into something cool for gaming.

Not planning on dropping any serious cash on new TVs any time soon.

Edit Update: So I looked up more info on the monitor and your right one of source mentioned 1ms GTG I assume Grey To Grey. Any reason why they would mention that?

Not sure what the standards are when measuring response time.

Most people get G2G and input lag mixed up. They are completely different things. Even I substituted g2g for input lag without even thinking lol.

A panel's response times won't vary based on refresh rate. Also, no manufacturer shares any true real world response time information, so G2G is the best info we have. Regardless, I own a pair of BenQ displays and the response time is very fast. Persistence blur is the problem at 60Hz. When you see the huge color and viewing angle tradeoffs, you'll know how they managed to get them so fast.

Most new LED displays can and do draw each frame very quickly. A CRT draws a frame in 16.6ms..

I forgot to clarify I meant input lag. And yeah crts can draw a frame in 16.66 ms, but that isn't because of the technology but 60hz scanout. Im mostly talking about input lag. The link below is some pretty cool oscilloscope readings of one.

https://smashboards.com/threads/perfect ... t-21307864



Since most games use a buffer people usually talk in ms since most of our retro games are 60hz and take 16.66 ms to complete one frame etc

For ones that don't you can theoretically beam race if you're a superhuman.

Kinda unrelated, but anyone else find the testing methodology for input lag being top middle bottom averaged dumb? I would much prefer for them to show all three numbers.

[Shelcoof]

I was talking about the response time.

Before buying this monitor I was looking for low input lag and this thing measured at 9ms.

The 1ms response time from my understanding was having less blur. Which I noticed compared to my HDTV.

However compared to a CRT there was no comparison at all. CRT blew it away lol

[tacoguy64]

I too been wanting to make the jump to oled but still holding off till a bit longer. 4k is just starting to take off and will become more prevalent in the next gen consoles. In the meantime, being stuck at 1080p for current gen isn't that bad. That's what i'm telling myself for now.

Lucky for me, a high end plasma became available on craigslist, a panny zt60, and i was able to pick it up. Right off the bat with no calibration i can tell how nice the picture looks. I only have hooked up a switch and a FM but the results are amazing. Holy crap, the colors and the blacks are fantastic here and the motion is really good. I'm really loving this tv.

I got it for $400 which came with a bunch of extras like 3d glasses and sound bar/ sub woofer. So not the cheapest you can get but when i'm comparing it to newer tv's in the same price bracket, the only thing those tv's have over the panny is 4k support. Sure not a fair comparison but i'm doing it anyways. I think this tv will more than hold me over till I make the jump to oleds in a few more years. Hopefully by that time the price tags come down and the technology makes some great advancements.

So yes, I do agree, pick up a nice plasma you see around in craigslist. There are definitely a bunch of them popping up now so take advantage of the opportunity.

[bigbadboaz]

OP, if you are really seeing plasmas at $100 Canadian and under, it's a no-brainer to at least consider. Just be sure you are given the opportunity to inspect and yes, test, any unit before actually buying.

Look at it this way, if you find a big screen you love when seeing it in action up close, are you really going to regret that kind of purchase price? Especially when the alternative is wait for OLED.. you'll be waiting a long time, and paying much more even when you finally get a set.

I had an old Sammy plasma I did, in fact unload, but it was great and I would gladly take it back if things were different. This was a 720p set that couldn't even compare to a Kuro or later Panasonic on paper, too. I wouldn't even blink at that kind of pricing. Just check it out first.

[Shelcoof]

Oh yhaa the only reason why I'm even considering Plasma is because of the dirt cheap prices for the ones I've seen posted locally.

I've never seen an actual Plasma's in person before or at least do a comparison between Plasma and LCD.

A bit of this consideration has to do with curiosity too. I mean if I can score a Plasma set for a pretty good price then why not... especially when on paper its suppose to look much better than LCD.

Obviously though before buying I'll test the set out first.

Actually this would be a good time to ask what would be the best way to test a set out?
I've always eye balled displays but I'm sure there is a better way out there.

[tacoguy64]

I just brought my switch and plugged it in. Played Sonic Mania time attack since that game required the fast reflexes to get my time as good as i could. Also loaded up usf2, doom and mario just to see how they felt. So yeah highly recommend you bring over your ps3 or xbox 360 and try any 2d games.

[cools]

I'm still using a Panasonic G10 (50"). Far prefer a plasma image over any LCD. Tickles the retinas in the same way a CRT does.

[maxtherabbit]

I love my 50" panasonic plasma - 1080p, one frame of lag, works with the OSSC (but doesn't support any modes higher than 2x)

IQ is great, and I don't give a shit about 4k so I plan to keep running it until it dies

[GojiFan90]

If you can get a plasma display at a good price, I say go for it (provided it's a good quality panel in above-average condition). Still have my 51" Samsung plasma and it's phenomenal for Blu-ray and retro gaming with my Framemeister. The first thing I would look for when buying second-hand is image retention on the screen. As much as people say it's a non-issue with later sets, I have to disagree. I have owned three plasma displays and two out of the three had image retention. My Samsung has the PS3 pause logo slightly burned into the bottom corner. Luckily, it's only noticeable on solid white images but it's something to look out for regardless. Use the scrolling or image wipe functions if you ever have to get up for a few minutes while you have a static image on the screen. Unfortunately burn-in can be unavoidable if you are playing games for long periods of time with static HUDs. Best of luck!

[Shelcoof]

Really appreciate all the input.

Yhaa I don't really care for 4K either. All I really care about right now are my video game system looking good on it and most of them aren't even 4K.

As for Brands or models which ones should I look out for?

[Ikaruga11]

What's the lowest amount of input lag ever recorded for any Plasma model? Are there any Plasma PVMs/BVMs?

[Lawfer]

What's the lowest amount of input lag ever recorded for any Plasma model? Are there any Plasma PVMs/BVMs?

Nope Sony did not care for Plasma, they did make a few Plasma sets but they shortly dropped that in favor of LCD/LED/OLED.

[Shelcoof]

What's the lowest amount of input lag ever recorded for any Plasma model? Are there any Plasma PVMs/BVMs?

No idea

From what I read it should be lower than LCD

Of course I might be confusing it with Response time lol
Plasma does not have response time due to their technology.

I know there are OLED Broadcasting Monitors. Would love to find out more if anyone here has info

[NoAffinity]

My plasma was a Hitachi 42". I was forever chasing "less lag" with that thing. It was noticeable with both analog and digital inputs, although I didn't have a good frame of reference at the time. I had been using the OSSC for a while, with the plasma, and once I replaced the plasma with my current TCL, with it's game mode and much improved latency (reduction), it was like "whoa". I suddenly got much better at games as a result too.

I don't know if it's representative of all Hitachi's, but that may be a brand to avoid if my experience is anything to go by.

But, the video quality from s-video sources was unmatched by all but SCART->OSSC from those same consoles. Saturn, PS2, N64 and SNES have only looked better via SCART->OSSC.

[FinalBaton]

If you can find a Panasonic ST50, S60 or GT50 for dirt cheap... I say why not?
Those have 16ms input lag(leo bodnar tester at center of screen I think? results are from HDTVtest. Make sure to double check, as I'm going off the top my head)
The GT60 has 23ms.

Those set have stellar picture quality, are 1080p and with those low lag figures, they're very tempting for gaming. as well as for watching movies and sport.

I know that if I found say a GT50 for $100 or less(or even $150), I'd pick it up in a heartbeat

I have to say, that I love the picture of plasma sets myself. so I'm biased

[Shelcoof]

We talking 100$ Canadian?

Right now I see sets averaging 150$

So between 100$ to 200$

[FinalBaton]

I was talking canadian indeed

Those would be good prices for the sets I mentionned

At $200 I'd have to think about it if it were to be a secondary set (mayyyyyyybe I'd cave in). But if it were to be my main set, than I'd be totally fine shelling $200. Bargain them , of course. Oh and check for burn in when you get there

[Lord of Pirates]

No idea

From what I read it should be lower than LCD

Of course I might be confusing it with Response time lol
Plasma does not have response time due to their technology.

I know there are OLED Broadcasting Monitors. Would love to find out more if anyone here has info

BHP has Sony's OLEDs starting around $4k (US) for a 17" monitor and over $5k for a 25". I think that safely places them outside any reasonable budget (and thus any lag tests or similar).

[Fudoh]

BHP has Sony's OLEDs starting around $4k (US) for a 17" monitor and over $5k for a 25". I think that safely places them outside any reasonable budget (and thus any lag tests or similar).

I have two 25" OLED PVMs. After all the 2nd hand pricing on these is very similar to what you're paying for a BVM D24 CRT - or even considerably less seeing the inflated CRT prices on ebay lately. I intended on doing a review sometime later this year.

[Lawfer]

I intended on doing a review sometime later this year.

Great, quite curious about how these True-RGB OLED screens fare.