How to archive forum threads safely & efficiently?

[BIL]

Chaps, I think I am dying... of cheeto dust inhalation. Before I go out to the store for cough syrup, I wish to archive our Ninja Gaiden / Scrolling Action thread and if possible the Mega Drive one, because both are great big heaving muhfuckas with stacks and stacks of content I'm still referring back to (if not reading afresh) today!

HOWEVER I don't know how to do so, AND I am very wary of jamming up the server or something! All I know is hotlinking images = bad, or something. Sorry, I am kind of dumb and getting on a bit.

So, might there be some tools or website for the task? If you could advise me of how to back up a thread without promptly getting myself banned for being a complete and utter asshole, I'd be very grateful!

Regs Biruford

[BIL]

[Ed Oscuro]

I can't speak for administration of course, but those images should mostly be linked from external sites, and your browser will already have site data cached. It's just down to how much data is being pulled down from the server for each page, probably not too much. I haven't been posting 50 times a day so that should help too

[BIL]

Ah, good point about cache and external links. To be honest I'd be happy as a clam with even a raw text dump of the NG thread, but that does hearten me a bit on a complete capture. Some fervent (and instructive!) GIFFin' going on in there.

This endeavour was really prompted by a vanishingly rare server issue we had a few months back, which ate a couple posts in the NG thread... if it'd occurred during the brutal Howling-esque growth spurt / werewolf transformation of early 2017, I'd have been mildly bummed! Maybe I should just archive kitten's post history. >_>

I guess I could printscreen together the NG thread, if it comes down to that. It's for the children!

[BryanM]

You mean saving a backup copy locally to your computer?

From what light googling on this I've done displaying an entire topic on one page would require a server side script change to viewtopic.php. The uh... powers that be haven't implemented the crucial [s]strikeout[/s] upgrade yet, so that avenue is probably doomed.

Eh... I could whip up an executable that may or may not work on your version of Windows, that can open dozens of pages at a time, so saving them is just a matter of spamming ctrl+s, enter, then ctrl+w over and over a couple hundred times. I'm sure there's absolutely some way to automate those button presses (or the procedures they call), but it's never been high enough of a personal priority for me to spend the hours working out the wizard ways to do that one highly specific thing...

[BIL]

You mean saving a backup copy locally to your computer?

Yup! Similar to what (I think) moozooh did with CAVE-STG.com when it went down.

Being an emotionless murder machine, I'm totally down for manually archiving individual pages, not an issue - actually, that's a prime opportunity to listen to some new albums I've been putting off for the last year. Just don't wanna blow up the server, somehow. Probably wouldn't happen but I'm sure the fates are watching this thread with amusement.

I'll probably just PM comrade BLOODF to be safe.

Wait a minute...

OMG

I CAN PROBABLY PM MOOZOOH TO ASK HIS ADVICE

(but I'm not sure how often he's around! and it could get awkward if he disliked my "1980s russkie spy" act in the GG thread! I save wodka for him just in case )

Ta BryanM, that is a good lead!

[drauch]

DOIN' GOD'S WORK.

[BIL]

Thankyou CMDR drauch ;-;7

[ED-057]

Eh... I could whip up an executable that may or may not work on your version of Windows, that can open dozens of pages at a time, so saving them is just a matter of spamming ctrl+s, enter, then ctrl+w over and over a couple hundred times. I'm sure there's absolutely some way to automate those button presses

If you can reduce it to a series of keypresses then you can use Autohotkey to automate the process.

Or you could generate a series of URLs and feed them all to WGET.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54859&start=6360
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54859&start=6390
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54859&start=6420
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54859&start=6450
etc.

The man page for WGET is a mile long these days. It probably has an option to download images and change all the links to point to the local copies.

[BIL]

Nice, thanks! Glad I bumped this.

[Lander]

*ahem* (-hem -hem -hem -hem)

Say, Birru, did you ever get around to this?

I ask, because my recent work on ox-farm.el might end up touching on it at some point, so if there's still interest in archiving clean copies of forum threads, it'd be an extra bit of motivation to push it forward.

The long and short is that currently, I can go from Org - a clean, batteries-included text format that's great for storing readable structured data like threads and posts without any excess tag cruft - to Shmups BBCode. Further hacking is likely to result in going the other way; from full-fat styled Shmups HTML back into Org.

This is ostensibly so I can use Org as a pretty frontend for reading Shmups as well as writing on it, but would have the knock-on effect of producing local copies in a format that's clean, locally-linkable, can convert into various other common formats (PDF, HTML, office doc, etc.), and would be reasonably trivial to automate into crawling the forum in the background (at sensible, mammal speeds if bandwidth is a concern) to gradually build out an archive of subforums, threads, and posts.

It's not likely to happen overnight, but is a distinct possibility in the eventual term, so figured I'd throw the idea out there in case it's of interest

[BIL]

Holy balls! I thought I'd made this thread a bit more recently, haha.

Any help much appreciated, no worries re: timescale. Been putting it off for years, tragic case of bone-idleness! I'll probably do a manual save at some point, at the least.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I've been looking into this for you BIL, and here's a bunch of tl;dr I wrote before I stumbled on a decent solution.

Spoiler

My recommendation would be to archive the text into a PDF format, with just the username and the posts themselves, no signature info. The problem is this will either require a) a custom tool that intelligently cuts out the info you don't want, and retains stuff you do such as spoiler text and pictures (or manually reinserting pictures and spoiler text it fails to capture) or b) manually copying and pasting everything into a word document and manually screenshotting and inserting pictures accordingly.

Obviously doing it manually for 400+ pages of text would suck. That's a lot of man hours.

I wouldn't recommend saving it all as HTML files. It does get you a backup of the files in the true sense of the word so would be good as an initial dump to have in a worst case scenario such as the site suddenly poofing, but it's not searchable or usable as a backup of information, which sounds like it's what you're after.

I also wouldn't make screenshots of the entire page; the text isn't searchable that way and the spoiler tags would all be closed. There are browser extensions in Firefox that will do this, taking screenshots and stitching them together, but I imagine they would not be able to open any spoiler tags.

There's an easy way of saving pages as searchable PDFs that retains the pictures (in non animated form) and spoiler text, and only requires a bit of manual labor on your part.

Step 1: click the wrench icon that's to the right of Post Reply at the top of the thread page. You'll see the option for Print View; click that. Note that this didn't exist in the previous version of the forum as far as I know, the recent forum software update seems to have added this.

Step 2: Print View gives you a plain white background, strips out the avatars of posters as well as their signatures, but retains all the post text and images. Unfortunately, it does not open Spoiler tags for you. To save the text under spoiler tags, you'll have to open them manually by looking for the tags with black arrows. If they haven't titled their spoiler you can find them with Ctrl + F then searching "Spoiler" and clicking each one you find, but if they've renamed the spoiler tag like this example, you have to manually open them or find a tool that'll open the spoiler tags automatically:

This is an example.

I've renamed the title of this spoiler to not have the word spoiler in it.

Step 3: Hit print, and then use an installed driver to print it as a PDF or similar format file. Adobe Acrobat Pro versions let you do this, there may be other similar formats that'd work like Microsoft XPS or such.

You could also save the print versions of the page as HTML files but I'm not sure how it'd handle pictures (would they actually be saved locally or would they be linking to the original source that could break), and it wouldn't be as transferable as a PDF document.

PDF format sacrifices animated GIFs, but once you have all 400 pages saved, you just combine them together quite easily, something Adobe Acrobat or other free PDF software can do.

Opening the spoiler tags will be the only major problematic element here, I can't find a way to make them searchable (an admin may be able to configure the board to change how print view displays Spoiler tags so that they always have a unique character you can find, or that print view shows them open by default). Spoilers are currently indicated in Print View by a distinct black arrow that does not appear to be text or at least isn't searchable, so you can manually scroll the page and look or them.

[BIL]

Much appreciated Roo! I'm sure something can be figured out eventually, I'm just being a lazy bastard.

I live in the shadow of a fatal countdown - when imgur goes tits-up, my entire posting history is gonna read (even more) like the diary of a twisted lunatic, all those counterbalancing custom smileys gone. So you could say I've grown used to living dangerously.

ITS NO FUCKIN EXCUSE THOU (｀w´メ)

[Sumez]

Outside of gaining access to the database and just ripping the data straight out like a spine from a freshly softened zako, I think the best approach would be writing a small crawler script that can read through threads and save what we want to keep.
I wager it won't take more than an hour or two to make something that's sufficient enough to not mangle data, and making it useful for perusing in the future. I recently did something similar to extract my own written mini-reviews from a series of long threads on a different forum.

Also, six years late, but Moozooh is still very frequently active on Discord, I probably talk to him there almost daily.

[BIL]

Sounds very promising, many thanks for technical know-how!

Also, six years late, but Moozooh is still very frequently active on Discord, I probably talk to him there almost daily.

Oh that's good to hear! I miss the old days. Or well, the even older days. Faaack m8!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I think the best approach would be writing a small crawler script that can read through threads and save what we want to keep.
I wager it won't take more than an hour or two to make something that's sufficient enough to not mangle data, and making it useful for perusing in the future.

If you're offering your programming skills for free out of the goodness of your heart I'm sure BIL and the rest who like the thread info would be appreciative, haha.

[Sumez]

Well sure. Programming is just a handy tool, I solve many mundane daily tasks that way ^^

[BIL]

TRVE Operator Mindset

[Lander]

Funnily enough, I only stumbled in thanks to Bryan's comment about [s]strikethrough[/s] formatting - to see if there was some undocumented-but-working way to encode it for ox-farm alas not, but we can hold out hope.

As it happens (in typical nonsensical timescale fashion) I ended up dedicating yesterday afternoon to whipping up an initial HTML transcoder prototype with R2RKMF's first page as input data.

The resulting text:

Code: Select all

* Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       895919
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-01T23:12:56+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 

Index of cool posts. Work in progress. [[imghttp://i.imgur.com/AzfA3qw.gif]] 
 *[[https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1398947#p1398947][ # A B C D E F G H ]] - [[https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1398948#p1398948][ I J K L M N O P Q ]] - [[https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1398949#p1398949][ R S T U V W X Y Z + ]]* 
 [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/qkdlL8a.png]] 
 *Sidescrolling. Beltscrolling. Topdown.* The three pillars of *Hard Scrolling Action.*  [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/BhbkLLk.gif]] On the borderline: action/puzzlers, arcade sports, gallery shooting ala /Cabal,/ and further permutations - /Cave Noire's/ "coinop roguelike" and /Herzog Zwei's/ "arcade RTS" are most welcome, to name two. If it's realtime action that could've debuted on the Famicom, and it's OT/borderline in Shmups Chat, that's a good start. [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/M3BhjKG.gif]] Don't sweat the "action" level too much - Marioesque hop/bops are welcome, as are ARPGs like /Ys,/ and search action ala /Metroid./  [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/4jDbysU.png]] 

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=22978_1619293598.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=21336_1647884013.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=22458_1600331442.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=15121_1717432723.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=122_1452196223.gif]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=63_1433021312.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=10398_1535349093.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=18755_1515289609.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=18882_1533318294.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=18021_1700489372.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=15997_1516307573.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=16948_1504544535.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=6341_1424034244.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=15907_1447959419.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=5059_1387871136.jpg]]  [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/hZ6Vnkp.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8004_1488456368.jpg]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=11906_1393965221.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=4109.jpg]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=15994_1486044554.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=3323_1384432987.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=16196_1491938757.gif]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8463_1315389931.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=14904_1521221042.gif]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=5276_1306534861.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=15940_1456046214.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=4726_1399323731.jpg]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=14547_1416939656.jpg]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=14589_1431261013.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=4358_1391981729.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=12593_1483520137.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=11756_1476873875.png]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8467_1319173035.gif]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=7602_1352800281.jpg]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=12919_1626986396.jpg]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=874_1270835979.gif]]  [[imghttp://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1458309282.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=9692_1608988836.jpg]]  [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/ZZ1tXsY.png]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=17569_1510562571.gif]]  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=12588_1615262408.png]] 

If you have had your ass kicked in by these games - take heart! Practice, and you too will join the *NINJA RYUKENDEN TASK FORCE.*  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif]] These brave souls have taken on the Jaquio and his army of savage birds, and /won./  [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif]] For newcomers to the series, [[https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1419616#p1419616][here's a collection of no-death replays,]] which should aid the learning process. Knock 'em dead, kid. [[imghttps://i.imgur.com/zE2fkOK.gif]] 

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       895975
:USER:     Hagane
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T01:33:10+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8859_1315252134.gif]] 

Nice replay. Never played any NG, but I will definitely pick this up sometime, looks very fun from your replay. Definitely looks purely skill based if you have knowledge on the game.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       895980
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T01:40:11+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 

Thanks! This is certainly among my favourite action sidescrollers, any generation... pretty much my gold standard. It takes Castlevania's methodical style and speeds everything up without becoming any looser or less punishing. I never tire of the sense of explosive impact, both when striking and being struck.

Thanks for the confirmation the replay worked too, I'm never entirely sure with these things.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       895989
:USER:     trap15
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T02:16:56+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=6074_1497139568.png]] 

Fantastic video. You're really good at this game [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif]] Some crazy subweapon skills going on in Act IV!

I have to wonder though, how were you doing those speedkills on the bosses? I know about the jumping down+b for no-wait slashing, but what you did seemed a bit unreal [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif]] 

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       895991
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T02:21:53+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 

It's honestly just a matter of jumping and hitting B while rubbing up on the boss - the jumpslash subweapon will tear them apart like you're pointblanking Raiden II's twin walkers at 30hz autofire with full vulcans and missiles. For speedruns it's mandatory to keep it for the whole run, but I can't be bothered to memorise the whole game to play that way - the other weapons are too fun! Also, I love connecting perfectly with the sword for that "THWACK" sound.

The times when I stop advancing I'm either scratching my nose or being extra careful when hitting a candle because I still haven't memorised what's in it after twenty-odd years. [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif]] 

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896004
:USER:     blackoak
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T03:25:11+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8467_1319173035.gif]] 

How timely, I've been playing a lot of NES platformers lately... and most all of them, good or bad, make me long for Ninja Gaiden. I just love the combination of memo+improv in that game. Some of the enemy programming, like the swooping birds, really highlight that imo. Its like you can hard memo them and execute a perfect speed-run, but if you screw up, the game still gives you a legit chance to right yourself. A fucked-up-but-successful run of a given sequence can feel a little different each time.

Not to derail the thread, but are there any other 8/16/32bit games you feel come close to NG?

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896011
:USER:     Edmond Dantes
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T03:40:30+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=9552_1314920403.jpg]] 

From the Makaimura topic...

#+begin_quote :user BIL
edit: *WHOA,* I'd assumed Acts I-III were locked down! Edmond you're playing terribly, bad timing and missed hits everywhere. You cleaved the thin air above that machete dude's head clean apart in 2-2. You had better not be DrTrouserPlank's alternate account. :/ I can only imagine what horror awaits in Acts IV-VI! Seriously, I wouldn't like this game like I do if it let you get away with the mistakes you seem to think aren't that big a deal. /Not/ getting smacked for that stuff would be unacceptable. What do you think this is, TIME COP for the SUPER NINTENDO?!

Just work on your timing and general accuracy and the stuff you've highlighted in those vids won't happen. I get hit quite a few times in the safer areas of my run (part 1 going up now), know why? *BECAUSE I DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT :O* Any time getting hit means death, I don't get hit.

Bomberhead can indeed be killed without taking damage, just get in range, let him whiff his attack, slash him repeatedly and back up. Repeat a couple times.
#+end_quote

Mind explaining exactly /how/ I'm playing terribly?  Considering I managed to get through Acts 1-5 without dying (I think I might've died once in Act 5) I have to consider this pretty good.

EDIT:  nvm, just realized you left comments in the links.

Almost finished uploading acts 4-6, and will check out your playthru as soon as I've finished uploading mine.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896015
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T03:51:09+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 


#+begin_quote :user blackoak
Not to derail the thread, but are there any other 8/16/32bit games you feel come close to NG?
#+end_quote

Oh no, don't worry about derailing - I only made this topic to avoid breaking up Skykid's Makaimura thread, it'll work fine as a general hardcore sidescrolling action topic.

There are a lot of melee-centric sidescrollers I've played that I'd say are comparable in quality to NG, but so far none have matched its particularly explosive feel - the collision, animation and sound effects are a perfect storm of visceral satisfaction, the level designs are fastidiously absent of dead time, and the brisk scrolling speed is pitch-perfect. Most of my other favourites tend to be slower or more complex in some way that adds depth but takes away from the simple pleasure of hurtling through perilous environments cutting down all in your path. Even NGII and NGIII, though excellent, don't quite have that purity for me.

Off the top of my head, here's a few picks I think are worth bringing up in NG discussion:

 *Vampire Killer (MD)* faster, leaner take on traditional Dracula with quicker pacing, meaty combat and beefed-up subweapons. So basically it's closer to NG than its own series. It gives me a similar feeling to the FC NGs, fast pacing, fun weapons, great presentation - another big favourite of mine.

 *Batman (FC)* great walljump mechanic, level designs that'll demand you master it, rocking soundtrack and brilliantly grimy art direction - one of those emphatic exceptions to the "licensed games suck" rule. Quality Japanese hardcore.

 *Holy Diver (FC)* Irem's punishing Dracula-style action platformer starring a projectile-wielding player character. Plays like Sypha from Castlevania III got her own game, quality and very tough stages to battle through. edit feb 2016: though it's sadly beset with some [[http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1170211#p1170211][nasty technical flaws...]] 

 *Shatterhand aka Solbrain, Dragon Fighter & Kage aka Shadow of the Ninja (FC)* Natsume sidescrollers on the FC are always worth trying for their fundamentally rock-solid and attractively presented action.

 *Saigo no Nindo aka Ninja Spirit (AC/PCE)* deliberately floaty yet mortally intense action with a range of great weapons, relentless danger and progressively more brutal Irem memoriser design. Harrowing yet a blast to play.

 *Hagane (SFC)* ultra-maneuverable ninja sidescroller, seriously quality game on par with the MD's Super Shinobis - the main character is simply a joy to move around. *Awesome* cyber-feudal art direction by Keita Amemiya, punchy sound+explosion effects and levels that nail a balance of theatrics and quality design.

 *Strider 2 (AC/PS1)* technically dog-eared with unappealing polygonal backdrops, but the hyper-responsive controls, fast-moving ninja action and some incredible setpieces make this a strong favourite of mine. Hiryuu's moveset is a streamlined yet emphatic leap beyond the original game's. At times it's like the controls are wired to my brain, diving and sliding about shredding all in sight. The aerial shredding command barrage is NG1 jump slash-satisying. The "hyper mode" sucks but IIRC you lose ranks for using it - at any rate I never bother with it anyway, it's never needed.

 *Shinrei Jusatsushi Taromaru (SS)* infamously rare and expensive, and also /really goddamn good/ sidescroller in Treasure bossrush style with a unique, gratifyingly explosive attack method. You're encouraged to dance around enemies evading their attacks readying your charge shot, then unleash it in a chain-lightning cataclysm of explosively rupturing bodies. Think "Scanner Ninja." I own this game without remorse or regret. [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif]] 

Playing badly (ignoring the charge + chain shot mechanic) results in [[http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/taromaru/taromaru.htm][this misguided impression]] - rest assured this game is the furthest thing from unbalanced (enemies deliberately wind up before attacking, and you have a free shield that can block *anything* and will shove away baddies to boot). Pay your dues with evasive action while charging and you'll rip enemies apart by the screenload.

#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
Mind explaining exactly /how/ I'm playing terribly?  Considering I managed to get through Acts 1-5 without dying (I think I might've died once in Act 5) I have to consider this pretty good.
#+end_quote

Your accuracy and timing need work. You're basically off by the same split-second or few pixels every time - that's all. I can't change that, only point it out and assure you I wouldn't lie about it being fixable with a little refinement.

edit: hang on...

#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
Mind explaining exactly /how/ I'm playing terribly?
#+end_quote

I did! Read the post! :O

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896028
:USER:     Edmond Dantes
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T04:51:59+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=9552_1314920403.jpg]] 

So, here's all the parts of my playthru I've uploaded so far (including Acts 1-3, which were already posted in the Makaimura topic)

Act 1 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZORaSRmAE][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZORaSRmAE]] 

Bil, you assume I'm "mashing" the D-Pad.  I'm simply pressing left and jump.  Like I do in most games when I want to jump to the left.

When I play King of Fighters on my PSP, I have no problems pulling off special moves--even the really complicated ones.  So I'm not sloppy with a D-Pad.

Act 2 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemdlhqWyIM][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemdlhqWyIM]] 

I'll admit getting hit twice by the dog might've been because I lost my cool a bit and tend to be in a "get thru the stage" mode rather than stopping and deliberating (a pattern in part encouraged by how enemies respawn).

Act 3 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr60gmYb1RI][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr60gmYb1RI]] 

Rudra, thanks for the tip about the boss.  I'll keep that in mind next time.

Bil, the thing is, /normally/ I have no problem taking that guy out, so it seems odd to me that suddenly I had an issue with it.

Act 4 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJjEDtJGDio][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJjEDtJGDio]] 

This one'll be new to ya'll.

Act 5 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADaZ6tnvxHY][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADaZ6tnvxHY]] 

As will this one.

Apparently, I spent 30 minutes tackling Act 6... probably because its where I finally lost my lives and used several continues.  I /did/ manage to beat Ken Hayabusa.  As for Jaquio, first time I was in over my head and kinda scrambled.  I decided to play again even though /being sent back to stage 6-1 is fucking bullshit/ , and on the rematch I thought I saw a pattern I could exploit... but I guess because I was losing my temper at this point, I botched it, and I wasn't willing to go through all that again.

Seriously, say what you want about my skills, but there is /no way/ you can argue that replaying all of act six just for dying on the boss is fair in any way, shape or form.

Anyway, Act 6 is uploading now.  Had to break it into three parts due to Youtube's time constraints.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896030
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T04:55:47+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 

Watch mah replay son. [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif]] 

#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
Bil, the thing is, /normally/ I have no problem taking that guy out, so it seems odd to me that suddenly I had an issue with it.
#+end_quote

That time you screwed up. That's all. If you wait that long to attack out of the air you'll land before the hit frames are out, cancel the attack and have a live enemy on your hands. Either attack earlier or land and attack then.

And to be fair, you ran into the poor chump. Dressed like that he must've been really cold too.

I already told you, I don't care about the game's restart policies - no point bringing those up with me. You need to calm down and practice. Watch my Jaquio vid for what happens when you give in to a "MOTHERFUCKER I'LL KILL YOU!" reaction after getting smacked instead of staying cool.

 *edit: Hey, also:* mentally framing this as a last-ditch all-out effort isn't how I'd do things. Just relax and observe, don't create an imaginary deadline for yourself. You're at an early stage where you've not got the engine or level layouts down cold - don't rush the process, it'll sink in eventually.

The ending is making me a little sad. ;-; Appreciate your dad, guys. Assuming he's not a despicable monster or anything.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896036
:USER:     Hagane
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:06:24+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8859_1315252134.gif]] 


#+begin_quote :user BIL
 *Saigo no Nindo aka Ninja Spirit (AC/PCE)* deliberately floaty yet mortally intense action with a range of great weapons, relentless danger and progressively more brutal Irem memoriser design. Harrowing yet a blast to play.
#+end_quote

Wow, didn't know about this one. Gave it a try on MAME and it's amazing. I can see what you mean with the brutal IREM difficulty (that damn spear guy under the ground!), but the weapon system, the abundance of bullets (which you can cancel with your slashes) and amazing graphics for a 1988 game hooked me really fast. Seems like you /need/ to be quick or get raped by the swarms of enemies.

One can always trust your fine taste when it comes to recommendations.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896037
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:07:36+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 


#+begin_quote :user Hagane
One can always trust your fine taste when it comes to recommendations.
#+end_quote

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif]] Thanks dude - I've learned a lot about the hobby from this community so I like to contribute back what I can. Glad you're liking Ninja Spirit, it's a hell of a game!

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896039
:USER:     Edmond Dantes
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:14:29+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=9552_1314920403.jpg]] 


#+begin_quote :user BIL
I already told you, I don't care about the game's restart policies - no point bringing those up with me.
#+end_quote

While I respect all your other wisdom so far, this rubs me the wrong way.

If you're gonna argue that the game is fair and I just suck at it, then don't turn around and tell me "well I just don't /care/ about the unfair parts."  That's bullshit.  Like if I said "I don't care about memorization."  You wouldn't let that fly, would you?

EDIT:  And yes, Ninja Spirit is awesome.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896040
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:20:50+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 


#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
If you're gonna argue that the game is fair and I just suck at it, then don't turn around and tell me "well I just don't /care/ about the unfair parts."  That's bullshit.
#+end_quote

When I say the game is fair, I'm referring to the way it plays. The engine, collision, level layouts, etc etc.

I'm not referring to how it handles a dead player - I don't have a problem with how it does things, but even if I did I'd just make sure I did better next time. So I'm not being a hypocrite when I say don't care.

Also, the boss rush knockback's cruelty is overrated. You get a brand new lifebar for each boss. None are all that complicated, and none are instant killers. Do better next time.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896041
:USER:     Hagane
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:28:22+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8859_1315252134.gif]] 

Fairness to me means that, as long as you do everything correctly, you can beat the game. If everything comes down to skill and not some random occurrence, it's OK. You might not like the harsh checkpoints, but the truth is that if you play the game well, they don't really matter.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] discussion
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896046
:USER:     blackoak
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:45:31+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=8467_1319173035.gif]] 


#+begin_quote :user BIL
recommendations
#+end_quote

Nice, I look forward to trying these. Some I've played in the past but don't remember clearly. Totally agree about NG's pacing and level design... "fastidious" is a good word to describe it. I really like how NG allows you to speed through everything too. I appreciate precision platformers like Chippoke Ralph when they're well made, but I mostly want to be able to blaze through a level on instinct+memo.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896047
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T05:52:35+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 


#+begin_quote :user Hagane
Fairness to me means that, as long as you do everything correctly, you can beat the game. If everything comes down to skill and not some random occurrence, it's OK.
#+end_quote

Exactly. There is no bad hand to be dealt in this game. You'll never receive an inherently unwinnable run, ever.

At the same time, a lapse of precision or concentration can very easily kill you. I'd guess 9/10 times I can no-miss it, but it never feels like something I can take for granted. That's model action game design in my book.

Edit: Also, Edmond, I'm honestly not trying to antagonise or belittle you here, but:

#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
I'll admit getting hit twice by the dog might've been because I lost my cool a bit and tend to be in a "get thru the stage" mode rather than stopping and deliberating *(a pattern in part encouraged by how enemies respawn).* 
#+end_quote

As I said [[http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=895539#p895539][here,]] the game's respawning is better dealt with by /not/ rushing ahead. The whole AVGN "endless stream of eagles invading the screen" thing is a myth. Nothing's coming after you, nothing's going to sneak up behind you, the spawning and respawning of enemies is entirely controlled by you. Once you realise that the myth promptly explodes.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896051
:USER:     Edmond Dantes
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T06:12:49+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=9552_1314920403.jpg]] 


#+begin_quote :user BIL
Also, the boss rush knockback's cruelty is overrated. You get a brand new lifebar for each boss. None are all that complicated, and none are instant killers. Do better next time.
#+end_quote

Actually, the "new lifebar" is only sorta-true.  If you die on the boss and make it for a rematch... you have to fight with however much health you had when you reached the boss room.

#+begin_quote :user Hagane
Fairness to me means that, as long as you do everything correctly, you can beat the game. If everything comes down to skill and not some random occurrence, it's OK. You might not like the harsh checkpoints, but the truth is that if you play the game well, they don't really matter.
#+end_quote

The problem with this (and BIL's similar argument) is that it assumes I, the player, already know what is "playing the game well" and that the only goal anyone could have is a 1-life run.  I don't and it isn't.  I don't know about you, but I'm not precognitive.  That's why a thing called "practice" exists.

The way the game is, the only way I get a chance to practice is if I use emulators and savestates.  On a real cartridge, how the fuck am I supposed to figure out Jaquio's pattern, develop a strategy, get a feel etc. if I'm only in his chamber for, say, one minute before a fluke gets me killed and I suddenly have to spend ten minutes replaying the last couple of stages?  Besides that, there's fatique to consider.  Naturally, such restart points are just gonna tire and frustrate the fuck out of me, which hampers my performance.

So yes, harsh restart points ARE unfair.  As unfair as telling a third-grader he has to pass an advanced calculus exam or else he gets sent back to kindergarten.  Jaquio isn't hard because he's hard--he's hard entirely because I don't get enough of a look at him and the game is pressuring me to do it right the first time.

(Besides, some of us are interested in that storyline the game has, and there is no bigger cocktease than not being able to see its conclusion just because we're not effing psychic.  I'd especially like to see the third one all the way thru because it seems like the most interesting of the trilogy, but if they're all this fucknubulous...)

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896056
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T06:30:39+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 


#+begin_quote :user Ed Oscuro
or implodes, as it may be

I have to admit that NG didn't really grab me when I played it, but NG2 and 3 seemed like interesting new takes on the idea.  I'll go mess with the trilogy (individually, I mean, not that messed-up failure compilation) and see what I think now.
#+end_quote

Oldschool Dracula at 2x the speed with 10x the explosion, and despite lacking stairs, 150% hateability. [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif]] NGII is definitely the friendliest of the series, and possibly the most entertaining as far as destructive power and neat level gimmicks go - try that one first, the first and third are more reserved and harder (well... JP NGIII was actually deliberately made easier, US NGIII is deliberately savagely hard. Great choice, SUPEREASY or SUPERHARD)

#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
Actually, the "new lifebar" is only sorta-true.  If you die on the boss and make it for a rematch... you have to fight with however much health you had when you reached the boss room.
#+end_quote

So learn to reach the boss room with a full lifebar or near it. You can also fall back on the jumpslash in this instance and instant-kill whatever boss is giving you trouble.

#+begin_quote
The problem with this (and BIL's similar argument) is that it assumes I, the player, already know what is "playing the game well" and that the only goal anyone could have is a 1-life run.  I don't and it isn't.  I don't know about you, but I'm not precognitive.  That's why a thing called "practice" exists.
#+end_quote

Completely wrong. You obviously don't know how to play the game well. You're in the process of learning to. Inexperience will inevitably get you killed along the way, if it didn't the game would be utterly lacking in substance. But at no point will you fail because of "unfairness," only your own errors. There's nothing unforeseeable or unavoidable in this game, no matter your experience level.

#+begin_quote
The way the game is, the only way I get a chance to practice is if I use emulators and savestates.  On a real cartridge, how the fuck am I supposed to figure out Jaquio's pattern, develop a strategy, get a feel etc. if I'm only in his chamber for, say, one minute before a fluke gets me killed and I suddenly have to spend ten minutes replaying the last couple of stages?  Besides that, there's fatique to consider.  Naturally, such restart points are just gonna tire and frustrate the fuck out of me, which hampers my performance.
#+end_quote

Get better. It's harsh, overly punitive maybe. It's not "unfair" to penalise you for your failure. You screwed up, this game's a right cunt about that, deal with it.

#+begin_quote
Jaquio isn't hard because he's hard--he's hard entirely because I don't get enough of a look at him and the game is pressuring me to do it right the first time.
#+end_quote

Wrong. Jaquio's a threat even knowing his behaviour inside-out. Watch my replay, I handle him flawlessly until one stupid decision - an attempt to lash out at him after taking a meaningless hit instead of regrouping - ends up wiping out half my lifebar.

And frankly you must be absolutely flailing to die so quickly without even getting /some inkling/ of why, some knowledge to build on. He has all of one attack. Evaluate and try something else, it sounds like you're taking the DrTrouserPlank approach of attempting to melt videogame obstacles with white-hot rage. It doesn't work. Do you have any idea of the temperature a mask ROM is soldered to a PCB at? You'll never be that hot.

#+begin_quote
(Besides, some of us are interested in that storyline the game has, and there is no bigger cocktease than not being able to see its conclusion just because we're not effing psychic.  I'd especially like to see the third one all the way thru because it seems like the most interesting of the trilogy, but if they're all this fucknubulous...)
#+end_quote

They're not games for casual consumption - that's why they're so good. When your mistakes lead not to improvement but blinding by rage, THE FUCKNUB IS YOU BRO. :[ Seriously, youtube the cutscenes if you're hating the games that much. It's not BIOHAZARD 2 on the SONY PLAYSTATION.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896090
:USER:     Squire Grooktook
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T08:56:22+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=11756_1579168675.png]] 

IMO, if a hard game is truly "fair" it should be possible for a theoretical "perfect" player to clear it on his first attempt, blind, and without taking any damage.

Now, obviously there's no such thing as a perfect player, so the vast majority of us will need to memorize and learn the game a bit in order to have a reasonable chance of beating it.

This post is totally off topic but yeah.

Anyway, Jaquio is bad but he's not that bad. Just use persistence and patience and you're bound to get the jump on him at least once.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896124
:USER:     Edmond Dantes
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T10:19:50+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=9552_1314920403.jpg]] 

Okay, final bit of my playthru.  This time I cut the commentary short because frankly, I was getting bored, and there were only so many times I could write "GRRRRR" before it became redundant.

Act 6, part 1 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ioqplKgN-4][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ioqplKgN-4]] 

Act 6, part 2 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obatwzm2FcQ][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obatwzm2FcQ]] 

Act 6, part 3 - [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhiBZFaBFk][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhiBZFaBFk]] 

That being said, I'm tired of this discussion.  I thought I might give the game another go if somebody could convince me it was worthwhile, but so far all I'm hearing basically amounts to "just get better, then you won't die."  Which is about as useful as walking up to a depressed man and saying all their problems will go away if they just smile.

I'm getting a strong feeling of fan myopia.  BIL has been saying "nothing is unforseeable or unavoidable"... but he forgets that this is true only for him, and only because he has decades of experience.  I highly doubt he or anyone else literally foresaw and prepared for every single danger in the game on their first try.  No offense, but I notice this with hardcore gamers a lot--like last year I met a Silent Hill fan who got onto me for missing the red gunk in the hospital, even though it was my first playthru and I wasn't using a FAQ.  I highly doubt this guy saved Cybil on his first play either.

And then there's the strange concept of what's "fair" the hardcore of this forum seem to have.  It's "fair" to force a player to play long stretches of game if they die at the very end--not even use a continue, just die.  If that's fair, then I'm curious what you guys think of Last Battle on the Sega Genesis, which literally gives you no continues, no saves or passwords, and just one life--you die, you start the entire game over, it doesn't matter how far you got.  I'm tempted to also mention Superman 64, but that might be hitting below the belt.  I get that there's an underlying belief that this is supposed to somehow make me better at those levels, but to be honest, the truth is the exact opposite.  This very forum hosts a strategy guide that endorses using savestates to practice, after all, so I know you all know this.

I'm not against difficult games, as long as they're fair.  Makaimura is fair.  Gradius is fair.  R-Type is fair.  Most Irem games are fair.  Most Capcom games are fair.  Ninja Gaiden is only challenging because it's blatantly unfair.

Well, gonna go watch BIL's playthru now.  Let's see if /that/ enlightens me.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896204
:USER:     Mortificator
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T15:02:17+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=3190_1578024392.png]] 

Have you played the original Castlevania, Edmond? While I think Ninja Gaiden's an amazing game, it's not quite as good as the title it copied from.

On other ninja slashy games, adding Zero to Mega Man X4 added that style as an alternative to X's shooting.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896237
:USER:     BIL
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T15:51:53+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=2979_1674701433.png]] 


#+begin_quote :user Squire Grooktook
IMO, if a hard game is truly "fair" it should be possible for a theoretical "perfect" player to clear it on his first attempt, blind, and without taking any damage.
#+end_quote

Well, that's NG1. Find me one example where the game will kill you out of sheer, unavoidable cheapness and not because you reacted inappropriately to something.

#+begin_quote :user Edmond Dantes
That being said, I'm tired of this discussion.  I thought I might give the game another go if somebody could convince me it was worthwhile, but so far all I'm hearing basically amounts to "just get better, then you won't die."  Which is about as useful as walking up to a depressed man and saying all their problems will go away if they just smile.
#+end_quote

Facile, worthless analogy. A valid one would be telling the depressed guy to identify what's depressing him and take steps to mitigate or solve those issues. This is a useful thought process in many areas of the human experience.

#+begin_quote
I'm getting a strong feeling of fan myopia.  BIL has been saying "nothing is unforseeable or unavoidable"... but he forgets that this is true only for him, and only because he has decades of experience.  I highly doubt he or anyone else literally foresaw and prepared for every single danger in the game on their first try.  No offense, but I notice this with hardcore gamers a lot--like last year I met a Silent Hill fan who got onto me for missing the red gunk in the hospital, even though it was my first playthru and I wasn't using a FAQ.  I highly doubt this guy saved Cybil on his first play either.
#+end_quote

Wrong, and patronising but I won't hold that against you (see below). You're assuming I've dedicated two-thirds of my life to playing this game. In reality I played it on-off as a kid for scrubby "clears" then ignored it through the last couple generations until in 2012, after [[http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=768701#p768701][a little trepidation]] I experienced [[http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=870168#p870168][a revelation about hardcore action sidescrolling.]] I'm not sure I ever no-missed NG1 or NG2 until the last year. Still haven't done NG3.

Point is, there's no myopia here. If I thought NG1 /or any other game I own/ was lacking in some way I'd point it out. Search my post history for "Alisia Dragoon" to see me regularly slate this expensive, beloved piece of my collection for its amateurish control problems. I'm as objective as lunatic fringe hardcore gamers come.

And I'm a huge Silent Hill (KCET) fan! [[http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=717584#p717584][Watch me tear the Gamespot review of SH2 to shreds here.]] Another facile analogy from you with the Aglaophotis, and that guy was a dumbass for giving you hard time about missing it. Everyone does. It's the theoretical NG equivalent of not picking up a unique, worthless "bagel" subweapon in 2-2 then getting the bad ending because you didn't rub it on the Demon's forehead.

#+begin_quote
And then there's the strange concept of what's "fair" the hardcore of this forum seem to have.  It's "fair" to force a player to play long stretches of game if they die at the very end--not even use a continue, just die.  If that's fair, then I'm curious what you guys think of Last Battle on the Sega Genesis, which literally gives you no continues, no saves or passwords, and just one life--you die, you start the entire game over, it doesn't matter how far you got.  I'm tempted to also mention Superman 64, but that might be hitting below the belt.  I get that there's an underlying belief that this is supposed to somehow make me better at those levels, but to be honest, the truth is the exact opposite.  This very forum hosts a strategy guide that endorses using savestates to practice, after all, so I know you all know this.
#+end_quote

There's nothing to discuss. The game designers set a rule, we players can either deal with it, cheat, or move on. As long as you're not losing unfairly, what the game does with your battered corpse is none of my concern.

"This forum" is not a hivemind. [[http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=816039#p816039][Here's what I think about savestates.]] MD Hokuto no Ken sounds like a bitch, but I've never been compelled to play it so I can't comment. I know Ruldra likes it and he's awesome so I might give it a shot sometime.

Bringing up Superman 64 after linking to HG101 earlier makes me think you're a bit of a noob, and just need to toughen up and work on your learning processes. :/ If anyone's the resident X-Multiply fan here, btw, it's saucykobold.

#+begin_quote
I'm not against difficult games, as long as they're fair.  Makaimura is fair.  Gradius is fair.  R-Type is fair.  Most Irem games are fair.  Most Capcom games are fair.  Ninja Gaiden is only challenging because it's blatantly unfair.
#+end_quote

Sorry, what a load of rubbish. NG1 is by far the least cruel game of all those you mention. Go clear Makaimura then return to NG1.

What you're saying is you can take any amount of beatings, humiliations and tortures as long as you don't get sent back a few levels after your failure - but if a game does that, holy shit, warpath time. That's a personality issue you'll have to resolve on your own, there's literally nothing to discuss.

#+begin_quote
Well, gonna go watch BIL's playthru now.  Let's see if
#+end_quote

Work on your timing and accuracy, Edmond!

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896241
:USER:     Mortificator
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T16:07:50+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=3190_1578024392.png]] 

Someone doesn't like a game I do?!?! The kid gloves are off. Time to make fun of his sig line.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896243
:USER:     Ghegs
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T16:09:17+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=98.jpg]] 

The NES action-platformer is one of my top three favorite genres so it's quite sad that I haven't dedicated the proper time to beat any of the Ninja Gaiden games, especially since all three Famicom titles have graced my shelf for a quite a few years now. Perhaps I'll try and take this thread as motivation.

I absolutely love the NES Batman and have beaten that one, at least. One of the best looking games on the system, as well. Looking at my boxes I see a few more great representations of the genre that certainly deserve to be mentioned...

 *2010 Street Fighter* . A bit unorthodox, but quite excellent.

 *Captain Saver* aka. Power Blade 2.

 *Gun-Dec* aka. Vice: Project Doom, which is so much inspired by the NG games that I'm quite positive BIL loves it.

 *Holy Diver* , which was already mentioned but deserves another nod. Damn hard.

 *Jigoku Gokuraku Maru* aka. Kabuki Quantum Fighter. Every metalhead's dream game, defeat enemies by headbanging.

 *Kid Dracula* . It's closer to Mega Man than to Castlevania, the way the main character gets new powers after defeating bosses and how the stages are a bit more wild, but quite good. I was actually working on speedrunning the game some years ago, but was distracted by something shiny.

* Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Action Sidescroller Miscs
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:       896248
:USER:     drauch
:DATETIME: 2013-04-02T16:12:47+00:00
:END:

 [[imghttps://shmups.system11.org/download/file.php?avatar=5059_1387871136.jpg]] 

This reminds me about that time that I thought CV: Bloodlines was a stiff game and didn't understand the love for it; either that, or I just sucked and was upset in result of sucking. Such insight into one's gaming soul almost always proves that you suck, and yeah, you should probably practice more. Games can be hard, but understanding and overcoming the difficulty makes the experience so much more worthwhile and appreciative.

I still haven't beaten NG. I haven't beaten it because I suck and haven't tried to get better. But I understand that, and someday I will grow up and grow wings and become beautiful, and I WILL try--and I will beat it. But for now I will provide encouragement and procrastination while I should be writing an essay.

And a nice screenshot

Still a few kinks to work out with whitespace formatting, top-level thread data, and viewer stuff; broken inline image URLs break the rest of the page atm, so I'll probably make it download everything and rewrite links to point at local files. Better for archiving, and better for export too, since the non-farm publishing backends are designed around local links.

And then there's the fanciful stuff, like storing posts as individual files that can be searched, or reassembled into larger documents (ex. one big doc for a whole thread), yada yada. Plenty of good potential.

Outside of gaining access to the database and just ripping the data straight out like a spine from a freshly softened zako, I think the best approach would be writing a small crawler script that can read through threads and save what we want to keep.

If only! I'd settle for a simple feed API of some sort, but phpBB's RSS isn't quite specific enough to cover the cases, so HTML it is.

On the bright side, DOM walking isn't so bad with a proper set of tag predicates; it'll still break if the page structure changes in some major way, but phpBB is standardized enough that it should be decently robust.

If you're offering your programming skills for free out of the goodness of your heart I'm sure BIL and the rest who like the thread info would be appreciative, haha.

[BIL]

Ahahaha, beautiful! Those first few pages, lordy. R2RKMF: Makaimura Gaiden indeed, my liege Edmans. Battle commenced with a remorseless blow to TIME COP for the SUPER NINTENDO

[Lander]

Quite the time capsule - when men were REAL MEN, women were REAL WOMEN, and grievances over proper technique were REAL GRIEVANCES OVER PROPER TECHNIQUE

Any thoughts on signatures? I committed BIG CHEAT and hid them for the screengrab, since inaugural replyer Hagane's long-gone sig image is interfering for now, but the machinery is there to pull them in once that's fixed.

I'm in two minds about including them by default, since they're ostensibly part of the content and history, but also repetitious by design. The viewer can fold and unfold #+begin_* ... #+end_* sections with Tab, so signature blocks are an option, but that'll leave the plaintext copy (and any non-interactive exports) with a lot of extra stuff around the posts by default.

This is, of course, all solvable with enough user-facing knobs and dials, but where would we be without sensible defaults?

[BIL]

Good question! Foldable sigs do sound good, for a balance of authenticity and clean readability.

Given a choice, I'd leave 'em open while reading; just part of the forum aesthetic. But ultimately, they're the least essential thing here by far, imo. I think the thread would read fine without 'em.

(this is making me think of dear auld NeoGeo.com Forums; where you'd have a dude with a gigantic pic of his motorcycle, then another with a fuckoff massive GIF of Fatal Fury's ending, with a suitably bombastic 240pt "ALL RIGHT THEN... [line break] ITS TIME TO SET OFF ON OUR OWN JOURNEYS... [line break] UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN" [line break + huge SNK logo GIF] I used to stare in awe, going "Don't fuck with me. Dooon't fuck with me" like Jack Lemmon in GGR. )

Incidentally, speaking of forum preservation, I was searching for the forbidden tototo chichipapapapap, this evening. (not a euphemism!) Sadly, it seems lost to time, even in Wayback Machine. Though, even with the OP chopped down to just the fateful question, the reply still has some timing. Plus, we can still enjoy the OP REVENGEANCE:

I'm very disappointed in all of you.

^__^ <333 Got a crackin' new smiley, too!

The sigs were neat, but the real content was the posts. Even the sadly busted image tags! RIP the busted user accounts ;w;7

[Lander]

The penny drops! Conlang, oh gawd
And man, those mega-sigs of old are like a bite-sized piece of Web 1.0; raw interweb, straining to break free of its little box Please, seal it up!

Ta for the fine insights also research continues apace!
For sigs, I think I've happened on an appropriate solution:

Drawers

Pictured right by way of :Signature: - blocks' slightly less obtrusive cousin, and half-sibling to the :Details: data under the subject line.

Beyond that, thread titles, auto-folding spoilers (UI only; fully visible for 'print' after frobnicating the necessary publishing widget) and tables all work now. I tidied the titling and extra data, toned down the SCREAMING PROGRAMMER CASE, and gave it a well-needed formatting upgrade so spacing, links, bolding, etc are closer to the ground truth.

Speaking of, this fella cleans up sharp with a high-res font:

Shmups Farm HD Patch

(Even moreso absent the vaseline from my screencap tool, hmm...)

The uh... powers that be haven't implemented the crucial [s]strikeout[/s] upgrade yet, so that avenue is probably doomed.

It can be done.
We have the technology.

FOR BRYAN M CUSTOM

(Though now I have to reckon with the computer-ethics dilemma of building a tool like that Better Twitch thing which empowers a subset of users to annoy everyone else with special syntax only they can see. Drat.)

[BIL]

Goddamnit, forgot about this thread - again!

Speaking of, this fella cleans up sharp with a high-res font:

Exceptionally handsome scar. Buddy done seen some shit

[Lander]

Ah, yes! I've been tinkering away, building some nifty background-processing machinery so the sheer weight of postage doesn't lock up the text editor (and by extension, my whole OS ) during translation.

Some fun bugs here and there. Ed's avatar was invading everybody else's profile for a time
Had a showdown with a rogue Russkie server too; dialing into The Motherland to retrieve arcade fliers over IPv6 is a dangerous game - almost logjammed the entire operation!

Anyhow, it's now capable of archiving the entire Mega Drive thread + associated images in ~2 minutes, so the input side of things is looking pretty good.

Output-wise, it'll happily dump out Org, formatted plaintext, and HTML, which I've uploaded to a Google Drive folder for perusal. I tried Pastebin for the plain formats, but the MD thread is hefty enough to blow past its upload limit by a factor of ~4!

The .org file is probably the best bet since it's the 'ground truth', and will open in anything that can deal with .txt, though might need to be renamed accordingly (or given the All Files *.* treatment) depending on the editor.
The .txt is a bit more pleasantly laid-out, but I note some selective signature duplication - likely a fixable wrinkle around how they're encoded as drawers.
And the HTML's a bit basic for now, but will open locally in a browser (minus images, since they all point to my local cache.)

There's an experimental OpenOffice Doc version in there too, with embedded images (weighing a respectable 50MB!) but I suspect it didn't export correctly, since Google Docs and LibreOffice both throw errors when presented with it. ODT and PDF output both need more investigation in general, since their exporters are fragile and require extra massaging to typeset and encode everything right.

Still, solid progress on the long road to a native Shmups Farm client with integrated archival tooling