Looking for advice on buying a professional monitor

[Nodoyuna]

Hi
Finally, I think I'm going a step further in my retro setup, and want to buy a professional monitor
In fact, I'd like to buy one 15KHz monitor, one 31KHz monitor and (if possible) a 24KHz monitor
All should be pro monitors and the size should be 19" or 20" or bigger

Anyway, I want to start with a 15KHz for 240p/480i content

One of my biggest problems is that I'm in Spain. There aren't many pro monitors here, and the ones I've seen are 9" or 14", and they're too small for me. So I need to import, so shipping will be an issue too.

I'm looking for advice on what monitor to get, and which are the best ones

Right now, I've seen a couple I'm interested in:

1) PVM 2730QM - It's already located in Spain, but I'll need to cross the whole country to get it, or make it shippet to me. Price is OK I think

2) PVM 1943MD - It's located in USA and provided from Ampronix, so they should know to pack and ship it properly. It's a refurbished monitor and the price is high

So, what's your advice here?
Do you know some PVM provider or seller in Europe for at least 19" size?
Can you make other recomendations on what monitor to get?

Thanks in advance

[gray117]

In general, in europe, I wouldn't bother and perhaps hoard a couple of decent sony consumer sets instead. But there's no denying general quality of pvms if they're holding up to age and price is ok. So... if you've already got a decent crt + backup + already have an ossc or some other scaler ... and you still want a pvm... then sure:

1)
PVM 2730QM
If you're happy with 1), and can get confirmation that picture is good and adjustable, go with it ... just make sure you're 100% happy with it before shelling out on driving/shipping.

2)
PVM 1943MD
Just don't bother. Too small and so far away. Fck that.

3)
From leftfield:
There's a couple of 2950s on ebay in Netherlands at the moment ... edit: cheaper one is pointless if got burn in... No idea what final price+shipping going to be but if you want one of these it's probably going to one of the last chances around - don't see them often - at least in uk.


4)
There's no secret pvm provider - Any organised AV/medical companies will have moved this stuff on by now: the primary source a few years ago.

In the wider field: The best thing you can hope for is that a company goes bust and that a liquidation company finds a cupboard full and puts a bunch on dovebid/ebay.

Otherwise local to yourself: try and check out old schools/av companies/local authorities etc ... but don't imagine you'll get far unless you can contact a janitor who wants to clear out a cupboard on the side... Most places junk stuff that isn't worth an absolute fortune and so it's probably long gone by now. Note: anything like this or something like dovebid you'll have to organise own pickup; hence local recommendation.

Good luck!

[MKL]

There's a 2043MD on ebay in Germany. Not what I would call a good deal but still better than having one shipped from the US. It's the same as the 1943 but it's called 20" because it's for the European market.

[Xer Xian]

You could also consider getting a vga monitor and an OSSC + hdmi to vga transcoder. Less expensive and easier to find than a comparable PVM, and 15/24/31kHz support in one monitor. Vga monitors only go up to 21/22" though (~19" viewable).

[Steamflogger Boss]

snip

I'd disagree w/ 19'' being too small but otherwise very much agree. The time to accumulate these monitors, especially w/o spending a lot is long past.

You could also consider getting a vga monitor and an OSSC + hdmi to vga transcoder. Less expensive and easier to find than a comparable PVM, and 15/24/31kHz support in one monitor. Vga monitors only go up to 21/22" though (~19" viewable).

This is a good option. Lots of alternatives to the OSSC too. OSSC has the benefit of being a new, in stock and currently supported product though.

[Dochartaigh]

You could also consider getting a vga monitor and an OSSC + hdmi to vga transcoder. Less expensive and easier to find than a comparable PVM, and 15/24/31kHz support in one monitor. Vga monitors only go up to 21/22" though (~19" viewable).

Not true 15khz support though - you can't play most systems light gun games on a VGA monitor (outside of Dreamcast which is the outlier) if that matters to you, and scanlines will need to be emulated or use one of those tricks with an emulator playing around with the refresh rate or whatnot to get the scanline effect going on.



To the other poster saying 19/20" is too small - that's pretty much the size (if not under) that 95% of professional CRT's and computer monitors are. Anything larger literally uses a very similar (if not the same) tube that a comparable size consumer TV does (in the US, and talking about Sony here - not as familiar with the offerings in EU). And sure, the professional/PVM-type will be nicer looking because of the more advanced electronics (and ability to fine-tune more aspects of the picture), but it still uses the same tube people say (M series for 27" Sony I believe, A series tube for above that I believe - may be some slight exceptions of course).

Anyway, with the above being said I was bridging into mentioning that a good quality, high-end, in good condition, consumer TV might be worth looking into - for 15khz at least. B&O I believe is the brand many Europeans like - supposed to be equal (some say even better) than the white unicorn Sony FV310 models everybody searches for in the USA because of their excellent picture quality. In the states we have to use a RGB to YPbPr converter, but you have true RGB support on your TV's so that's always a good way to start getting into CRT's in my opinion (just make sure you're SCART is actually using RGB from the console - and not Composite over SCART which is a much less quality image).

[Nodoyuna]

First of all, thanks for the replies...

@gray117 :

In general, in europe, I wouldn't bother and perhaps hoard a couple of decent sony consumer sets instead.

So, it's really no difference between pro monitor and a good TV, given I'm in Europe?
What TV should I search for?

I'm going to pass on the 1943MD based in USA, as you say, it's way too far, and also really expensive

@Xer Xian and @Steamflogger Boss :

My plan is to get a monitor for each 15KHz, 24KHz and 31KHz and play in native resolutions without using use scalers
"Problem" with VGA monitor is that they're mostly 19", and I'd like to have the three monitor more or less at the same size, that's the reason I also look for a 19" PVM

@Dochartaigh :

To the other poster saying 19/20" is too small - that's pretty much the size (if not under) that 95% of professional CRT's and computer monitors are. Anything larger literally uses a very similar (if not the same) tube that a comparable size consumer TV does (in the US, and talking about Sony here - not as familiar with the offerings in EU). And sure, the professional/PVM-type will be nicer looking because of the more advanced electronics (and ability to fine-tune more aspects of the picture), but it still uses the same tube people say (M series for 27" Sony I believe, A series tube for above that I believe - may be some slight exceptions of course).

So, according to you, to truly appreciate de quality of a PVM pro monitor, I should look for a 19"/20" size, right?

[Steamflogger Boss]

There is a clear difference between pvms and good consumer CRTs. Whether or not it's worth the price difference to you and if you like the look is really just something you will have to see for yourself.

[Nodoyuna]

There is a clear difference between pvms and good consumer CRTs. Whether or not it's worth the price difference to you and if you like the look is really just something you will have to see for yourself.

Oh, I see...

So, they're definitely better quality and there is a visible difference when compared to a normal TV set, it all depends of the price of PVM's, which is much higher than a normal TV

[Steamflogger Boss]

The 800tvl and higher monitors in particular have a very sharp look, and you might not like it.

[Nodoyuna]

BTW, what does "600 lines at center" means?

Thanks

[Xer Xian]

"Problem" with VGA monitor is that they're mostly 19", and I'd like to have the three monitor more or less at the same size, that's the reason I also look for a 19" PVM

I'm struggling but I don't think this sentence makes any sense? Edit: Ah alright I think you mean that you want a 19" PVM to pair a 19" vga monitor. I see.

Regarding your decision of playing at native res, I fully understand that, but I just wanted to stress that line-doubled 240p on a vga CRT with fake scanlines (at intensity depending on the specs of the vga monitor) gets really close to native 240p.

But again, I understand if you want to stick with true 240p (I feel the same as you). Good luck on your search, if the PVM bug gets you it's a never-ending quest

[Steamflogger Boss]

BTW, what does "600 lines at center" means?

Thanks

I would assume just the tvl count but you can ask the seller because that's goofy wording.

[Xer Xian]

Usually CRT's can resolve less detail on their sides, that's why the resolution is given for the center. Don't worry too much about such small details when you're just starting out, just focus on finding a set in good condition instead.

[Steamflogger Boss]

just focus on finding a set in good condition instead.

This is very important. There are so many out there that are shot to shit. I paid a fair bit for the one I am using now but it is pristine and hadn't been used in 10+ years before I bought it. I also got it off the original owner (owner of a video editing company that did things like edit sports highlight videos).

[gray117]

There is generally a difference - but it does depend what you're after.

Personally, I don't want to play on a crt smaller than 25"... I'm much more about that kind of arcade feel and scanline size for both home systems and pcbs.
Given the age of all this kit there is little reason for someone like me to prioritise a pvm pick up at the current prices when there's still decent rgb sets about.

However, if your particular tastes are orientated towards a fine picture, on a smaller set around 19-20", I can appreciate you may well be very much inclined to pvm or ... perhaps even (cat amongst pigeons time) a bvm pickup.

...thing is you'd have to be really sure what you're after and what it's worth to you to go bvm shopping with these kind of prices. Let alone the slight chance that something goes wrong/there's a defect/shipment gets broke ... is it worth it? It sure is to some people, not to others and the number of people for whom it's worth it decreases with every price hike and year it gets older ... all that being said a bvm might mean you never look at any other monitor again if it matches what you're after quality and size wise.

https://andynumbers.wordpress.com/2016/ ... tvl-count/

[Dochartaigh]

So, according to you, to truly appreciate de quality of a PVM pro monitor, I should look for a 19"/20" size, right?

Yes, I would start with a more modern 20" PVM like the PVM-1953 (these may be slightly different numbers in the EU), PVM-20M2, or PVM-20L2. These are all models which have an on-screen display with service menu for doing things like adjusting geometry. Older models like the 1943 you were looking at, to do something as simple as making the image a little taller so you don't see weird things on the margins of a system like MegaDrive, you would literally have to take that 1943 apart and turn a little pot inside it... which needless to say is a pain.

The 600 TV Line monitors like I mentioned, although sharp, aren't as razor sharp as the 800, 900, 1000 TVL monitors like some of the PVM's and BVM's (which some people don't like) so it's a good balance IMO. Myself personally I LOVE the 800+ TVL monitors much more than the 600TVL ones - but I like the almost emulator-esque look (especially when it's coming from a console from the 80's or 90's - it really shows me what that technology, when paired with a proper CRT monitor, can achieve and it's glorious in my eyes).

Another option which could do multiple resolutions on the same CRT, are some of the multiformat CRT monitors by Sony, Ikegami, JVC, and NEC. Those can be VERY pricy though and hard to find though.

[Steamflogger Boss]

There is generally a difference - but it does depend what you're after.

Personally, I don't want to play on a crt smaller than 25"... I'm much more about that kind of arcade feel and scanline size for both home systems and pcbs.
Given the age of all this kit there is little reason for someone like me to prioritise a pvm pick up at the current prices when there's still decent rgb sets about.

However, if your particular tastes are orientated towards a fine picture, on a smaller set around 19-20", I can appreciate you may well be very much inclined to pvm or ... perhaps even (cat amongst pigeons time) a bvm pickup.

...thing is you'd have to be really sure what you're after and what it's worth to you to go bvm shopping with these kind of prices. Let alone the slight chance that something goes wrong/there's a defect/shipment gets broke ... is it worth it? It sure is to some people, not to others and the number of people for whom it's worth it decreases with every price hike and year it gets older ... all that being said a bvm might mean you never look at any other monitor again if it matches what you're after quality and size wise.

https://andynumbers.wordpress.com/2016/ ... tvl-count/

Well stated, and I can respect that you have different tastes than I do. This is definitely not something to rush into.

[azmun]

In general, in europe, I wouldn't bother and perhaps hoard a couple of decent sony consumer sets instead. But there's no denying general quality of pvms if they're holding up to age and price is ok. So... if you've already got a decent crt + backup + already have an ossc or some other scaler ...

Wise advise except for the "hoarding" part Personally, I feel the ones who'd benefit most from PVM/BVMs are those from North America who never really had access to RGB signal. In Europe we've been spoiled with RGB via SCART since the early 90s and they were very accessible. Top grade (Loewe) as well as average consumer level (Philips, etc.) CRTs provided and still yield excellent video quality.

[Hoagtech]

You could also consider getting a vga monitor and an OSSC + hdmi to vga transcoder. Less expensive and easier to find than a comparable PVM, and 15/24/31kHz support in one monitor. Vga monitors only go up to 21/22" though (~19" viewable).

Not true 15khz support though - you can't play most systems light gun games on a VGA monitor (outside of Dreamcast which is the outlier) if that matters to you, and scanlines will need to be emulated or use one of those tricks with an emulator playing around with the refresh rate or whatnot to get the scanline effect going on.

I play duck hunt on my 31khz+ VGA monitor with an OSSC in chain.

Scanlines look terrific as well.

I love the setup and prefer it.

[Nodoyuna]

Hi

Finally, I've located a PVM 2950QM and that's the one I'll buy for my 15KHz playing...
It's in great shape and the price is OK

I've always played on big screens, so I think something 20" would seems small for me

Now, once I get the PVM at home, I'll start to search for a multisync monitor for 24KHz and 31KHz
I've heard good things about the NEC one, although I've also heard it will be very difficult to find

As an alternative I can search for a TV set that can support those frequencies, meanwhile I found a really pro monitor for that

Any recommendations for 24KHz / 31KHz? I want it to be a CRT with 4:3 ratio, and, if possible, at 29" to match the PVM

Thanks in advance