Best streaming setup with multiple consoles, PVM, and OSSC

[HalHawkins]

So I run retro gaming tournaments across the country, but I also use some modern consoles to play retro fighters because they have better ports. I also stream these tournaments, so trying to run a single PC streaming computer using multiple consoles with different resolutions at these events can get a little complicated.

I have an OSSC which seems to work well with most of my consoles, but every now and then I get issues with sync for the SNES/N64 and the 240p/480i transitions for Tekken 2 (Tekken 5 port) on the PS2 cuts out the signal, which OBS does not like. I also use the Dreamcast and Xbox 360 with SCART, since I only have PVMs for my stream setup, but I would love to use VGA for both to stream them in 480p without having to have a separate monitor for those games.

It seems like converting everything to 240p and running it to the PVM, while splitting the VGA to maintain 480p is the best possible solution. I also really don't like the 480i picture the PS2 puts out. I currently just run the SCART cables to my PVM and then use the RGB out on it to connect to the OSSC.

I also want to make sure this setup doesn't introduce any unnecessary lag for the players.

I am not a video equipment expert though, so I wanted to get your thoughts on the following idea for a setup. The reason I included the SNES/N64 consoles in the RGB 203rxi setup was to ensure a steady signal. I may be wrong on that though. I want to simplify things without sacrificing video quality, and switching out cables/equipment from tournament to tournament at these conventions I do is not ideal or efficient time-wise.

I would definitely appreciate your thoughts.

[Elrinth]

your image is broken for me . company blocking i guess (Access to retroworldseries.com is blocked according to the organization security policy. Category: Sex)

also you don't specify which capture card you are using. but best~affordable capture card for them old games seems to be the Datapath VisionRGB cards. sadly it doesn't pick up the audio. It takes basically any resolution.

[thetallguy24]

your image is broken

also you don't specify which capture card you are using. but best~affordable capture card for them old games seems to be the Datapath VisionRGB cards. sadly it doesn't pick up the audio. It takes basically any resolution.

The image works for me. It says Datapath E1s.

[Elrinth]

You'll have to live with resolution changing breaking the input with an hdmi capture card. As for losing sync during snes sounds very strange, which games are you playing? Also are you using any hdmi switch and/or splitter?
Perhaps you should consider using a capture card which takes analogue signals as inputs such as Micomsofts XCaptura-1?

[HalHawkins]

You'll have to live with resolution changing breaking the input with an hdmi capture card. As for losing sync during snes sounds very strange, which games are you playing? Also are you using any hdmi switch and/or splitter?
Perhaps you should consider using a capture card which takes analogue signals as inputs such as Micomsofts XCaptura-1?

Well the Datapath E1s is capable of analog and has DVI, so I'm guessing its the OSSC that is having the issues with the PS2 transitions?

[nmalinoski]

Why downconvert 480p to 240p? Does your PVM not support 480p?

If you configure your OSSC to line-double 240p and 480i, and passthrough 480p, I would think you could add an EDID minder (might need an HDMI->DVI adapter with audio breakout as well) between the OSSC and the capture card to keep the video signal active at 480p to avoid/reduce the dropouts.

Sync on the SNES (as well as the NES; not sure why with the N64) is known to be jittery. I'm not aware of the 203rxi's capability to stabilize the NES/SNES video signals, but, if it does, then great!

I would look into maybe simplifying your setup and wiring with either SCART->VGA adapters, or even avoid adapters altogether with VGA/3.5mm cables for your consoles.

You'll have to live with resolution changing breaking the input with an hdmi capture card. As for losing sync during snes sounds very strange, which games are you playing? Also are you using any hdmi switch and/or splitter?
Perhaps you should consider using a capture card which takes analogue signals as inputs such as Micomsofts XCaptura-1?

Well the Datapath E1s is capable of analog and has DVI, so I'm guessing its the OSSC that is having the issues with the PS2 transitions?

The OSSC doesn't output analog. The signal drops are a symptom of HDMI (and it seems digital DVI as well); when sync drops, all the HDMI devices in the chain need to perform another handshake before the video signals resume. You may want to try changing the TX Mode from HDMI to DVI; if that works, you can keep using that, but you'll need to route audio around the OSSC. If it doesn't, again, I would look into an EDID minder between the OSSC and the capture card.

[HalHawkins]

Why downconvert 480p to 240p? Does your PVM not support 480p?

If you configure your OSSC to line-double 240p and 480i, and passthrough 480p, I would think you could add an EDID minder (might need an HDMI->DVI adapter with audio breakout as well) between the OSSC and the capture card to keep the video signal active at 480p to avoid/reduce the dropouts.

Sync on the SNES (as well as the NES; not sure why with the N64) is known to be jittery. I'm not aware of the 203rxi's capability to stabilize the NES/SNES video signals, but, if it does, then great!

I would look into maybe simplifying your setup and wiring with either SCART->VGA adapters, or even avoid adapters altogether with VGA/3.5mm cables for your consoles.

You'll have to live with resolution changing breaking the input with an hdmi capture card. As for losing sync during snes sounds very strange, which games are you playing? Also are you using any hdmi switch and/or splitter?
Perhaps you should consider using a capture card which takes analogue signals as inputs such as Micomsofts XCaptura-1?

Well the Datapath E1s is capable of analog and has DVI, so I'm guessing its the OSSC that is having the issues with the PS2 transitions?

The OSSC doesn't output analog. The signal drops are a symptom of HDMI (and it seems digital DVI as well); when sync drops, all the HDMI devices in the chain need to perform another handshake before the video signals resume. You may want to try changing the TX Mode from HDMI to DVI; if that works, you can keep using that, but you'll need to route audio around the OSSC. If it doesn't, again, I would look into an EDID minder between the OSSC and the capture card.

No my pvms are PVM-20L2MD and PVM-20M2MDU.

I really can't line double 240p or 480i signals. I put the gameplay up on a 20' projection screen and record/stream in 1080p. I already have an XRGB2 Plus, so there's no point to having the OSSC if all I do is line double.

[nmalinoski]

I really can't line double 240p or 480i signals. I put the gameplay up on a 20' projection screen and record/stream in 1080p. I already have an XRGB2 Plus, so there's no point to having the OSSC if all I do is line double.

The OSSC is in the diagram you posted, and you made no mention of an XRGB-2 Plus nor a projection screen till now. That would've been helpful to know.

The point of configuring the OSSC to line-double 240p and 480i is so that all of the video resolutions you're using can be scaled to a common resolution that can be maintained with an EDID minder in order to avoid dropouts during video mode changes, and any further scaling can be handled downstream, such as on your capture PC. OBS Studio can do scaling, deinterlacing, and has a projector output mode.

If it can seamlessly handle resolution changes, and you're okay with having a max capture resolution of 1024x768, you could do initial scaling with and capture the output of the XRGB-2 Plus, then scale the rest of the way with OBS Studio.

If you want to maximize the scaling pre-capture, or you just really want to use the OSSC for scaling, I don't think there's any way to avoid the signal dropouts during mode changes unless you can find an EDID minder or another scaler, like a DVDO vp30/50 or whatever, that can accept the 960i/960p output from the OSSC. If it's a scaler, you can have it scale the rest of the way to 1080p, or you can just scale with OBS Studio.

[HalHawkins]

I really can't line double 240p or 480i signals. I put the gameplay up on a 20' projection screen and record/stream in 1080p. I already have an XRGB2 Plus, so there's no point to having the OSSC if all I do is line double.

The OSSC is in the diagram you posted, and you made no mention of an XRGB-2 Plus nor a projection screen till now. That would've been helpful to know.

The point of configuring the OSSC to line-double 240p and 480i is so that all of the video resolutions you're using can be scaled to a common resolution that can be maintained with an EDID minder in order to avoid dropouts during video mode changes, and any further scaling can be handled downstream, such as on your capture PC. OBS Studio can do scaling, deinterlacing, and has a projector output mode.

If it can seamlessly handle resolution changes, and you're okay with having a max capture resolution of 1024x768, you could do initial scaling with and capture the output of the XRGB-2 Plus, then scale the rest of the way with OBS Studio.

If you want to maximize the scaling pre-capture, or you just really want to use the OSSC for scaling, I don't think there's any way to avoid the signal dropouts during mode changes unless you can find an EDID minder or another scaler, like a DVDO vp30/50 or whatever, that can accept the 960i/960p output from the OSSC. If it's a scaler, you can have it scale the rest of the way to 1080p, or you can just scale with OBS Studio.

One of the reasons I switched from the XRGB2 to the OSSC was, while the XRGB signal was very stable, the picture was very jittery in certain spots. So if I want the best results, I should just skip the RGB interface and Emotia and just run the OSSC to a VP50 and that should solve the signal drop outs?

[BuckoA51]

That still won't solve it in my experience, even with framerate unlocked.

[HalHawkins]

That still won't solve it in my experience, even with framerate unlocked.

Have you found anything that does work?

[Fudoh]

you would need a seamless switch/scaler. These are made to deliver uninterupted signals even with changes to the signals or dropouts or whatever you have going on the source side.

Maybe have a look at some older gear from Kramer or Extron to see which advertised this feature.

[HalHawkins]

you would need a seamless switch/scaler. These are made to deliver uninterupted signals even with changes to the signals or dropouts or whatever you have going on the source side.

Maybe have a look at some older gear from Kramer or Extron to see which advertised this feature.

So I would need that just to prevent the PS2 240p/480i transitions from causing signal loss to the capture card?

[orange808]

You need genlock and you'll probably have to swallow some frame rate conversion and extra latency to get seamless transitions.

[arithmaldor]

If you end up using an emotia, you won't need a VGA splitter, the emotia has a passthrough

[HalHawkins]

You need genlock and you'll probably have to swallow some frame rate conversion and extra latency to get seamless transitions.

The Extron Matrix 100/200 switchers say they have Genlock, so that would solve the issue and be lag free correct? What do I run the Genlock on one of these devices to?

[Fudoh]

The Extron Matrix 100/200 switchers say they have Genlock, so that would solve the issue and be lag free correct? What do I run the Genlock on one of these devices to?

Classicly genlock is an input for an external clock device. it synchronises the frames of all sources. You're dealing with something different here though: your sources change their output refresh rate (ever so slightly) when they switch between 240p und 480i, so need a processoro that nullifies these changes and outputs one solid refresh rate all the time.

And regarding your original diagram on top: the Emotia won't convert from a 480i source. It needs a 480p source. You would need a scaler with 240p output capability (TVOne maybe?) to input 240p/480i and 480p and get the same output resolution from all these sources.

[DarkAries]

The only solution to resolution changing games that I have found is using a DVDO Iscan HD or HD+. Since they treat the source as 480i when the framerate is unlocked the transition is seamless. You will lose out on some image sharpness however.

Also if you already have the datapath owning the OSSC is useless if you aren't going to actually play on hdtvs. This won't solve the problem of resolution changing though. The datapath still has a window where it drops signal to adjust to the new resolution.

Honestly the solution seems to be have everything be 480i at least for a capture standpoint. As I understand this, a TBC device apparently can do this. What you would specifically be looking for I have no idea however.

[HalHawkins]

The Extron Matrix 100/200 switchers say they have Genlock, so that would solve the issue and be lag free correct? What do I run the Genlock on one of these devices to?

Classicly genlock is an input for an external clock device. it synchronises the frames of all sources. You're dealing with something different here though: your sources change their output refresh rate (ever so slightly) when they switch between 240p und 480i, so need a processoro that nullifies these changes and outputs one solid refresh rate all the time.

And regarding your original diagram on top: the Emotia won't convert from a 480i source. It needs a 480p source. You would need a scaler with 240p output capability (TVOne maybe?) to input 240p/480i and 480p and get the same output resolution from all these sources.

So does getting an RGB interface serve any purpose either?

[nmalinoski]

The Extron Matrix 100/200 switchers say they have Genlock, so that would solve the issue and be lag free correct? What do I run the Genlock on one of these devices to?

Classicly genlock is an input for an external clock device. it synchronises the frames of all sources. You're dealing with something different here though: your sources change their output refresh rate (ever so slightly) when they switch between 240p und 480i, so need a processoro that nullifies these changes and outputs one solid refresh rate all the time.

And regarding your original diagram on top: the Emotia won't convert from a 480i source. It needs a 480p source. You would need a scaler with 240p output capability (TVOne maybe?) to input 240p/480i and 480p and get the same output resolution from all these sources.

So does getting an RGB interface serve any purpose either?

As I understand it (and someone can correct me if needed), RGB interfaces are mainly for converting sync types; so, if you have an RGBHV source and need to connect it to an RGBS monitor, or vice versa, or split sync from green, the RGB interface would be able to handle that.

[HalHawkins]

So since most of those devices aren't really necessary, what are your opinions on these 2 setups? Definitely much simpler, but I do want to make sure they are lag-free, especially for fighters, and maintain a good video signal/quality

[maxtherabbit]

So since most of those devices aren't really necessary, what are your opinions on these 2 setups? Definitely much simpler, but I do want to make sure they are lag-free, especially for fighters, and maintain a good video signal/quality

Either option should be lag free (on the CRTs) and excellent quality. Option 2 would only work if you have a computer monitor that will sync to 15kHz though, or a 31kHz PVM

[HalHawkins]

Either option should be lag free (on the CRTs) and excellent quality. Option 2 would only work if you have a computer monitor that will sync to 15kHz though, or a 31kHz PVM

You're right. I'd have to add my XRGB-2 Plus to get that and be lag free, and I'm not a fan of the jittery quality of it.

[Elrinth]

As for Snes capture, you could always bypass the whole OSSC and use the Super NT for capturing SNES.