Do horizontal Shooters have a future? (other than Gradius)

[CIT]

Okay, so what entirely new horizontal Shooters did we get in the last three years?

- Gradius V -> which was great!
- R-Type Final -> which was also great, but by all accounts the last game in this series
- Border Down -> which was also great!

- Cho Aniki: Sei Naru Protein Densetsu -> which was X-Nauts crapola (although deliberately so)
- Sengoku Cannon -> which was just straight up X-Nauts crapola

Pretty slim offerings if you ask me (unless I missed something). Still, it seems to me the horizontal side of shooting has pretty much become extinct. So we'll be getting a new Gradius for PS3, but apart from that? I don't see anything announced for the arcades. Time to move to PC gaming to look for new horis?

What do you think the future holds for horizontal shooters? Or rather, why do you think they've nearly died out in arcades and consoles?

[FRO]

I'm not sure what the release date is, but what about Progear? That's recent. It uses a more "manic" approach similar to a lot of recent verts. I think it's a fantastic game & exploits an idea that should be explored further (hori bullet-spam shmup). Granted, most people associate hori shooters w/ old-school game play mechanics & "twitch" gameplay, but I think there's a future for the Progear type of game, as well as hori shooters in general. I mean, there have been a couple more traditional verts released recently (Trizeal, Raiden III), so why can't a more traditional hori make it as well?

[CIT]

Yeah, I would love to see more games like Progear. But that one came out in 2001 and was the first and (thus far) last of its kind...

[ill6]

I don't think that Progear was sucessful in the arcades; I think it is brilliant.

[SAM]

Yes, there is fewer horizontal shmups being release recently.

There are still pretty heat games you have missed.

Air RADE
Air RADE ~Air~


and other Dojin hori shooters...

Actually horizontal shmups is more sutible for home console format, since utilize the whole screen space , without rotated you TV to Tate position, which most causal gamers won't do.

Actually you can see the situation as there are less shmups being develop for consoles. (If the developers are trying to develop a console, they would use a wide screen even that the game is a vertical scroll shmups.) And acrade shmups used to be in vertical screen format.

Anyway, shumps are means to be played on a large screen with a sensitive ball top joystick and 30mm clicky buttons.

[sven666]

Horis definetly have a future (id say more so than verts actually), if we could only get an arcade-based R-type and then have it ported niceley to the 3 big consoles i think it would sell great.

here in sweden r-type final was voted 2nd or 3rd best game of that year in spite of it being an early year launch.
i know farcry was one of the games that beat it.

gradius V was also a success here and sold just fine.

as for chou aniki and sengoku cannon, yeah obvioslu shitty games are going to have lousy sales i think a progear port or console sequel would actually sell quite well would it only be released here...

[dai jou bu]

Yeah, your best bet for some more horizontal shmups are from the doujinshi side of gaming, although I think Studio Siesta's next shmup will be 1) polygonal, therefore losing the cartoony style (and possibly Blue Sky!) 2) vertical.

I think Microsoft needs to buy out Irem and/or fund them for another R-Type game. Or revitalize Technosoft and finish Thunderforce VI already.

[Jon]

I would agree that at the curent rate X-Naughts is doing absolutely nothing to help the current state of hori shmups. On the bright side however consider some of the other recent horizontal shmups released (Gradius V, Progear, and to a lesser extent Border Down and R-Type Final) and things dont look half bad. I know its more Gradius but the up coming deluxe pack for the PSP was very welcome news as well. By the way I would love another Cave take on a hori shmup. God knows they could stand a little dose of originality.

[FRO]

Or revitalize Technosoft and finish Thunderforce VI already.

Seconded. I would love to see a TF6, as I'm sure many on this board would.

[gameoverDude]

I think Taito should try bringing out a new Darius in time for the 20th anniversary of the series. In light of that, "Darius XX" would be a good title.

Seeing this one released in both a regular Type X board and also a 2-monitor setup would be great. OTOH, if the game were released in a special widescreen cabinet, maybe multi-monitors would be a moot point.

[professor ganson]

I certainly wouldn't expect a lot of horis in the next next gen. I think we should be happy to get a couple of the quality of Gradius V and Border Down. Since we have a Gradius coming, we're definitely on pace to reach this modest goal.

[infested_ysy]

Yeah, I would love to see more games like Progear. But that one came out in 2001 and was the first and (thus far) last of its kind...

Get Gundeadligne, like, now.


It came out in 2004.

[BulletMagnet]

Heh, my dream hori of the future would be the next Blazing Star...

At any rate, yeah, the vert seems to be exercising near-total dominance of whatever's left of the shmup genre nowadays, for whatever reason. In any event, Gradius is still going pretty strong, so methinks it'll still be dependable for awhile.

[AOTD3025]

I'd like to see Einhander 2 myself. That raging battle at the very very end must mean something . . .

I did hear something about the Nintendo Revolution supposed to having games that "anybody can pick up and play". Perhaps we might see some shmups of both types there?

-AOTD3025

[CIT]

Yeah, I would love to see more games like Progear. But that one came out in 2001 and was the first and (thus far) last of its kind...

Get Gundeadligne, like, now.


It came out in 2004.

Link? Shop?

Please tell me more!

[WarpZone]

why do you think they've nearly died out in arcades and consoles?

Short, score-based games are essentially what's being focused on now in the genre. Using manic bullet patterns tends to be the preference of most developers to do this sort of thing, it seems, and that typically works better in a vertically oriented game.

[infested_ysy]

Link? Shop?

Please tell me more!

http://www20.cds.ne.jp/~murasame/games/gundeadligne.htm
^ official link + demo + patch

HimeyaShop used to have them for sale, for some reason they took it down recently:
http://www.google.com.my/search?q=gunde ... S:official

Request for them to get you a copy:
https://www.himeyashop.com/contact_us.php

[ccovell]

Gundeadligne is indeed an awesome shmup. But with manic horis.... I kind of miss the necessary interaction with the levels. Nowadays, many shmup designers don't want to design actual *levels* with themes and obstacles*, so they either make it a vert or a bullet-hell shmup and use repeating patterns for backgrounds**. <sigh>

*recently, Progear and Gradius V excepted
** not that games like Image Fight are my cup of tea, either.

[BrianC]

Link? Shop?

Please tell me more!

http://www20.cds.ne.jp/~murasame/games/gundeadligne.htm
^ official link + demo + patch

HimeyaShop used to have them for sale, for some reason they took it down recently:
http://www.google.com.my/search?q=gunde ... S:official

Request for them to get you a copy:
https://www.himeyashop.com/contact_us.php

http://www.paletweb.com/selectpage.asp?code=9900000252 Paletweb has it.

[infested_ysy]

http://www.paletweb.com/selectpage.asp?code=9900000252 Paletweb has it.

Himeya sold it for 10 bucks, though.

Gundeadligne is indeed an awesome shmup. But with manic horis.... I kind of miss the necessary interaction with the levels. Nowadays, many shmup designers don't want to design actual *levels* with themes and obstacles*, so they either make it a vert or a bullet-hell shmup and use repeating patterns for backgrounds**. <sigh>

Because it's bad enough that modern shooters are fast paced, with hundreds of enemies flooding the screen with millions of bullets? It's hard enough to dodge all the madness, and now you're wanting the players to avoid obstacles here and there too?

At times like this, I'd recommend people to play things like Perfect Cherry Blossom or Imperishible Night:

[LoneSage]

Heh, my dream hori of the future would be the next Blazing Star...

I just played Blazing Star not even a week ago and I've fell in love with it, I can't get over how awesome everything about it is. I kept on thinking "Man, feels like Thunder Force VI.." throughout the game.

What happened to Yumekubo, anyways?

[CIT]

What happened to Yumekubo, anyways?

They've withdrawn from the game market and now concentrate on cooking and restaurant software. No joke!

[dai jou bu]

At times like this, I'd recommend people to play things like Perfect Cherry Blossom or Imperishible Night:

I woudn't recommend Perfect Cherry Blossom for those interested in trying to achieve a high score. That game's method of acheiving a high score is EXTREMELY anal, unless I'm missing something. I'd say get either Embodiment of Scarlet Devil (more emphasis on survival due to lack of hitbox indication when in slow mode, faster bullets, and collecting the point items for score) or Imperishable Night (very flexible scoring method for attaining Final Spell Cards and bullet patterns more in the style of Embodiment of Scarlet Devil). I'd only recommend PCB solely on the fact that it was completely fan-translated into English.

But with manic horis.... I kind of miss the necessary interaction with the levels. Nowadays, many shmup designers don't want to design actual *levels* with themes and obstacles*, so they either make it a vert or a bullet-hell shmup and use repeating patterns for backgrounds**. <sigh>

I'm starting to miss those days as well. The only reason why I stick with Touhou is because of the amount of dedication its fanbase has as well as the way ZUN fleshes out his fantasy world.

[BulletMagnet]

I woudn't recommend Perfect Cherry Blossom for those interested in trying to achieve a high score. That game's method of acheiving a high score is EXTREMELY anal, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, scoring well is more or less a risk/reward thing...the main idea is to increase your cherry max meter, so that the point items are worth more. The only ways to do that are to 1) Graze bullets while in "supernatural border" mode, and 2) Let the "border" mode run out without getting hit. Since you need to get into "border" mode a lot to keep the cherry max rising, you need to keep in mind that shooting enemies while in "slow mode" raises the cherry + meter (which puts you into border mode) more slowly than when you shoot them with "regular" shots. As such, you want to shoot as many enemies as possible (bosses included) without using slow mode; this is risky, because your normal shots aren't as powerful, and it's tougher to dodge tight patterns without slowing down, but it's the most effective way to increase score. Even if you don't utilize it too often, though, you can still finish the game with some practice, just playing "for survival." Oh, one other thing; grazing bullets in "border" mode adds even more to your cherry max meter if you graze them without using slow mode; one more reason to limit your use of it.

I might have made a mistake or two up above, but I think that's the basic idea.

[J5983]

I admit that PCB requires really precise borders (memorization) to achieve the true high scores. However, I'd say it's easier than Dodonpachi or Ikaruga, for example. All you have to remember is graze like mad at the proper times and you'll get a decent score.

[infested_ysy]

I admit that PCB requires really precise borders (memorization) to achieve the true high scores. However, I'd say it's easier than Dodonpachi or Ikaruga, for example. All you have to remember is graze like mad at the proper times and you'll get a decent score.

In IN, memorization is a must in beating the last few bosses....

I got pwned so much by that rabbit girl Reisen so much, it's not even funny. (very very weird and original bullet patterns, what with the time stop before the bullet patterns interwine togather, then the shooting out a bullet pattern that's packed, which would periodically change to a scattered one for a few seconds, before instantly turning back to the original pattern, thus making you get hit if you don't memorise where the previous pattern was located at)

[dai jou bu]

PCB gameplay mechanics involving Cherry Points

That sounds about right from my understanding of the game mechanics as well from the shrinemaiden site. So yeah, it's pretty anal if you want to play for score.

In IN, memorization is a must in beating the last few bosses....

I got pwned so much by that rabbit girl Reisen so much, it's not even funny..

You know what's odd? I never really had a hard time dealing with her on my second full run attempt at the game (though I still couldn't 1CC it). Maybe it's because I prefer pattern-based gameplay instead of "OMG BULLETS," I guess. Maybe that's why I warmed up to IN a little better than PCB?

[BulletMagnet]

That sounds about right from my understanding of the game mechanics as well from the shrinemaiden site. So yeah, it's pretty anal if you want to play for score.

I guess I'm a bit confused about what you mean when you say it's "anal" about scoring...I never really felt "threatened" by the system, for lack of a better word, since you could focus as much or as little on score as you wanted at any given time, and while trying to score well obviously involves risk, it's not like screwing up at one key spot will lose you half your total score or anything. The actual mechanics involved in scoring also aren't as complex as they are in Imperishable Night, IIRC...I guess I must just be reading you wrong, heh.