What are your top 3 shmups from the 16-bit era?

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Yes, yet another topic encouraging some love for old-school shmups. With bullet hells dominating most of the conversation around here, I thought this would be a fun topic.

As some people have suggested, let's look at SNES/SFC, PC Engine, Genesis/MD and any arcade games that were relevant during that time.

And if for some reason you want to pick something that's debatable for this criteria, by all means just pick it anyway. We're just discussing video games for fun.

16-bit shooters generally aren't as difficult as more modern shmups but gosh darn it if they aren't fun

Mine would be:
1) Winds of Thunder (PC Engine)
2) Thunder Force IV (Genesis)
3) R-Type (PC Engine) To me, the music just really cleaned up the arcade version.

[tizerist]

Hmmm...
1) Thunder Force 4 (mega drive)
2) R Type 3 (snes)
3) X Multiply (coin op)

[Kollision]

Axelay
Silpheed
Nexzr

[MathU]

Now are we just talking consoles, or... ?

(PC Engine is actually 8-bit)

[Despatche]

The PC Engine is not actually 8-bit, it just happens to use an 8-bit CPU because the designers didn't really have the infrastructure for what Sega was about to do. Probably would have been a great big waste of money. The other parts are 16-bit, which is why the graphics are so phenomenal.

So, what even is the "16-bit" era? We have the PC Engine, the Mega Drive, and the SNES, never mind the ridiculous power of the CD attachments and the 32X. What about arcade machines with their variety of specs? What about 8-bit consoles that persisted in this era, such as the Master System and the Game Gear, the Game Boy, etc? Wacky 16/24/32-bit hybrid consoles and computers started appearing around this point too, such as the Neo Geo and the Amiga. Some platforms will have neat features or even extra parts that allow it to handle higher-bit operations easily; pretty much everything from the N64 onward does this. Did you know that the Xbox actually has a 32-bit CPU?

Bits really don't matter, and the actual effect of a jump in bits is entirely dependent on what you were already doing and what you want to do with the upgrade. The hit counter lies!

This isn't just semantics, because the inability to figure all this out leads to some really unfair comparisons. What it really sounds like is that you want people to talk about pre-CAVE games that aren't so old as to be golden age arcade games. Even then, I'd vouch for the likes of Donpachi, which is fundamentally an "older" game in its design and pacing.

[maximo310]

Lol dude, I'm pretty sure they mean the 4th generation of home consoles, the "16-bit" golden years. :p

[BIL]

Even narrowing it down to my usual interpretation (PCE/MD/SFC and related attachments) it's impossible to pick three.

For fun I'd go with Elemental Master, Bio Metal and Soldier Blade. All of these will get me the fuck going every time. They're not hard games per se, but they demand constant movement and aggressive use of their thunderously powerful special attacks to avoid being overrun. It's a particular sort of intensity I'd long associated with Tecno Soft's best, but never quite twigged until Perikles narrowed it down a couple years ago.

For slightly soberer shooting I guess it'd be Kyuukyoku Tiger MD, Super Smash TV and Nexzr Special. The three-console spread was unintentional the first time around but I like the effect so I wrangled it in here too. ;3 KTMD and SSTV distill their arcade versions just right for my needs. The former is pushier and nastier than PCB, the latter significantly less painful which still leaves it parked soundly at fookin brisk. Nexzr is my favourite hybrid of console leisure and bone-jarring checkpoint smack.

[Despatche]

Yes, that's what my entire post is about. Even that is vague because what about those similar-spec arcade games? You can't just leave those out in the cold like that, especially when many of the games on home consoles are ports of these arcade games. And once you get arcade hardware involved, what do you choose? Are System 16 games okay? System 18? What about the CD attachments and the 32X, those aren't fair at all. Where do you draw the lines?

There are no real lines to draw. Topics like this never make any sense. You'd be better off saying "1986 to 1996" and dealing with the repercussions of that.

[trap15]

Agree w/ Despatche. "16-bit era" means little as does "8-bit era". It's much more useful to say "X Y and Z consoles" or "arcade games from 19XX to 19YY". I'm assuming you indeed meant PCE/MD/SFC, in which case:

1) Bio-Metal
2) Thunder Force IV
3) Soldier Blade

[MrOldSchoolCool]

As some people have suggested, let's look at SNES/SFC, PC Engine, Genesis/MD and any arcade games that were relevant during that time.

And if for some reason you want to pick something that's debatable for this criteria, by all means just pick it anyway. Nobody is going to stab you. Just relax. We're not writing up legal documents here. We're just discussing video games for fun.

[Perikles]

I'm going to split between console-exclusives and arcade ports, three games are indeed not enough. I'm also going to left out miraculous arcade ports such as Gradius II on the PCE CD or the HuCard R-Type since I assume in those cases that I could play the actual arcade game instead. Only those conversions that differ in meaningful ways from their original are listed.

Originals (and yes, for my intents and purposes, MD Undeadline is a console-exclusive and not a port of a home computer game ):
1. Undeadline
2. BioMetal
3. Thunder Force IV

Ports:
1. Gradius III
2. Salamander
3. Darius II MD or Detana!! TwinBee


And as always it would be remiss not to mention that Sapphire is what I consider to be the best game from the era, although I personally prefer playing other games more. Fantastic scoring system and difficulty, it can easily compete with the vast majority of arcade games from the same time period. Just an incredible game all around.

[Kollision]

Damn I forgot about Darius II MD!

[Kiken]

In no particular order:

1. Thunder Force III (MD)
2. Last Resort (NG)
3. Gradius II Gofer No Yabou (PC-E CD)

Also, nobody should be considering the 32X for anything... unless the criteria is console with the best hummingbird-based game.

[Kollision]

Interesting...
We all know the Neo Geo is 16-bit, but I'll never put it in the same boat as the MD/SNES/PCE.
Otherwise Blazing Star would certainly be in the list.

[The Coop]

-=Original=-
1) Thunder Force IV (Genesis)
2) M.U.S.H.A. (Genesis)
3) Steel Empire (Genesis)

-=Ports=-
1) Raiden II (Playstation 1)
2) R-Type (Master System)
3) Sagaia (Genesis)

[BrianC]

Original:
Super Aleste SFC
Soldier Blade TG-16/PCE
Thunder Force III MD

Ports:
Fire Shark MD
Gradius III SNES
Darius II MD

Also, nobody should be considering the 32X for anything... unless the criteria is console with the best hummingbird-based game.

Not to mention that one of the only shumps for the system, Parasquad, is infamous for being re-branded with a name of a much better game.

[radirgyman]

Super Aleste (SFC)
Truxton (Megadrive)
R - type (snes)

When I bought these on release I couldn't stop playing them. Especially Truxton - Loved the pause bomb cheat.

[PooshhMao]

I'm tempted to mention Thunder Force IV too, but... eh. In terms of presentation, yeah, it's one of the best without doubt. But you're pretty much underpowered throughout (at least that's what it seems like) which really affects my enjoyment of the game.

You know what? I'm going to nominate it after all.

So, in no particular order

- Thunder Force IV
- Super Aleste
- Dunno, Gates of Thunder perhaps?

[MrOldSchoolCool]

I'm tempted to mention Thunder Force IV too, but... eh. In terms of presentation, yeah, it's one of the best without doubt. But you're pretty much underpowered throughout (at least that's what it seems like) which really affects my enjoyment of the game.

You know what? I'm going to nominate it after all.

So, in no particular order

- Thunder Force IV
- Super Aleste
- Dunno, Gates of Thunder perhaps?

How are you underpowered?

[Kollision]

I'm tempted to mention Thunder Force IV too, but... eh. In terms of presentation, yeah, it's one of the best without doubt. But you're pretty much underpowered throughout (at least that's what it seems like) which really affects my enjoyment of the game.

How are you underpowered?

I'd like to hear about that too.

[davyK]

No. 1 for me is Super Aleste all day long. I played so much of this game it's silly.

Nothing else really stands out for me - mainly because I was a SNES owner and the shmup lineup wasn't deep.

I do like Super Fantasy Zone on MD - I'd put that at No. 2

Played a lot of Super SWIV aka Firepower 2000 on SNES back in the day and had fun with its 2 player mode too - so that makes No. 3.

[Kiken]

I'm tempted to mention Thunder Force IV too, but... eh. In terms of presentation, yeah, it's one of the best without doubt. But you're pretty much underpowered throughout (at least that's what it seems like) which really affects my enjoyment of the game.

How are you underpowered?

I'd like to hear about that too.

Most likely due to the fact that:
A; Blade is a shitty primary weapon (TS should have just retooled Sever) with an awkward damage box. This is really apparent against Gargoyle Diver. If you use Blade against him, he'll go through roughly 5 full attack cycles... but if you ignore the Blade power-up and simply stick with Twin Shot, he goes down in less than one cycle.

B; From stage 6 forward, the game expects you to abuse the ever-living shit out of the Thunder Sword during boss fights. The exact operation of this charge mechanic isn't employed in any other game in the series so it can feel a tad alien... although, the functionality is identical to the charge attack in Elemental Master.

[PooshhMao]

Yeah, that's more or less the issue I have with the game. All but the smallest enemies require a bit too much sustained fire, you're ill equipped to handle that which the game throws at you. I also seriously dislike the Blade weapon for the reasons mentioned. And this might be a nitpick, but in contrast to just about every other shoot 'em up, the only indication it gives you you're doing actual damage to enemies are the small red impact puffs or whatever you call them. This makes it seem you're barely scratching them, and with sprites as large as the Blade's.

It's a shame these small things have such a large impact on the game, because it's totally sublime otherwise - it's one of the best looking and sounding games of the era full stop, even surpassing a great deal of cutting-edge arcade shmups that were available at the time.

[TransatlanticFoe]

The issue with Sever in III was it took down bosses in seconds, I rather like that the weapons in IV have weaknesses. Blade and Railgun trade off accuracy. Hunter gets confused by some indestructible elements. I don't think it makes you feel underpowered but it certainly means you aren't game-breakingly overpowered.

[PooshhMao]

The trick is to get the balance right, which TFIV didn't.

I hate to rag on the game since it's so beautifully done otherwise. It easily ranks up there with the system's finest in terms of graphics and sound.

It's also the Thunder Force game that came closest to being an A-lister.

[dingsbums]

That's a though one . I split it into console / arcade.

Console:
1. R-Type III (SFC)
2. Battle Mania Daiginjo (MD)
3. Download 2 (PCE)

Arcade:
1. Mystic Riders
2. V-V / Grindstormer
3. Thunder Dragon 2

[evil_ash_xero]

1. Thunder Force IV
2. R-Type III
3. Seirei Senshi Spriggan

[PlasmaBlooD]

Musha Aleste
Winds of Thunder
Hellfire MD

[d0s]

-original-
Spriggan
Nexzr
Thunder Force III

-ports-
R-Type PCE
Kyukyoku Tiger PCE
Fire Shark MD (just got into this port, it's fun)

I'm not counting Neo-Geo, X68000, or actual arcade boards because the list would be completely different. It's pretty obvious what the OP had in mind, autismos

[djsheep]

1. Super Aleste (SFC)
2. Winds of Thunder (PCE)
3. M.U.S.H.A. (MD)