Marseille's mCable?

[citrus3000psi]

Just saw this today.

http://www.marseilleinc.com/mcable-gaming-edition/

This might be a start to a new fad.

[Fudoh]

The upscaling on their 4k "cinema" version of the cable reminds me a lot of the iScan Micro. I wouldn't be surprised if the algorithms were actually licensed from them. What I THINK happens on the "gamer" version is that the cable upscales and then downscales to the original resolution.

[syboxez]

LinusTechTips did a review of these and showed Super Mario World running. It didn't look that great, and actually somewhat degraded the look.

The problem with most scalers meant for modern 3D games or cinema is that they are designed to smooth out the image, which is the exact opposite of what most people want when scaling retro video games. "Dumb scalers" or pure line multipliers like the OSSC are ideal for retro games because they don't do any extra processing to the image.

[orange808]

Most of these enhancers are just ringing(too sharp) or smearing(too soft) machines.

FXAA is essentially free and most displays have sharpness settings.

[Xer Xian]

I was looking at a cheaper one a few days ago ( http://www.hdelite.eu/ActiveHD.html ) which I believe has got the exact same processing as this mCable (Marseille's VTV-122X family). It's difficult to think that such cheap solutions can upscale significantly better than built-in processors.

Edit: I found another one that has/had a RRP of $39,99

[Blair]

I saw the tech tips review of both the cinema version and the gaming versions of these third-generation Marseille cables. the testing methodology was kind of crap (no test patterns to check for ringing, and they used a modern high-end PC as their source instead of game consoles and DVD/Blu-ray players. and no mention of 480i/1080i compatibility or quality). but from what I could see the gaming cable's filtering is not great with 2-D graphics at 480p ( unfortunately Linus didn't show us what it could look like at 720p or 1080p) polygon-based 3-D games from the PlayStation era and above would probably be okay and might even get a perceived quality boost. but it's definitely a pretty big oversight on Marseille's part that they don't have a toggle switch of some kind to disable the AA filtering. even DVDO includes a remote control (and an onboard clicky button) so you can toggle "sharpness" settings on their (relatively) similar integrated solution (the micro).

having something in between FXAA and SMAA as an option for PS3 and XBOX 360 titles is very tempting, it's something I would like to see/test for myself.


the cinema cable didn't really appeal to me, as I have a plethora of other options for upscaling sub-HD video content. (but I also have good quality CRTs so... )

[Seraphic]

I found a website selling these for 50% off or more. These might be older models and does not look like they are the gaming versions.
http://pctbrands.com/catalogsearch/resu ... lle+mCable

[ZellSF]

Uh, this is nothing like other HDMI cables with builtin scaling as this is the only cable that does post-processing antialiasing. With almost no input lag. To my knowledge we haven't seen this before and the only sensible comparisons are to PC post-processing antialiasing methods.

It's something I've been wanting in a HDMI processing for a long time. If it wasn't for what looks like artificial sharpening I would've already ordered one.

If it had toggles for all processing it does (artificial sharpening, post-process anti-aliasing and upscaling) via a remote I would have been tempted at twice the price they're selling it for now.

[Seraphic]

I just e-mailed Marseille asking a few questions about the cable. Depending on their response, I might pick up the 6ft gaming edition for testing.
Seeing as I have a OSSC OTW soon for use with a PS2 along with a several sub 1080p consoles Xbox 360, PS3, Switch, PSTV and HDMI modded GameCube might be nice to mess around.

[BONKERS]

These cables are garbage. All they do is over sharpen the image. (The ringing is hilariously bad).
According to linus's video, you have to set the output resolution to the resolution of the video. YEAH, that's not upscaling. Your TV is still doing all the work num nuts. It's still being fed that same resolution signal.

As for the AA,all it's doing is a simple "pixel area pass threshold?> Yes?>filter image>Then sharpen the shit out of it to compensate"

It's not real AA, all it sees is a flat 2D image. (To even less advantage than PPAA built into games these days.).
It does no more than your TV's various sharpening methods.(My 1080p sony set has like 3 or 4 ways to sharpen the image? You could easily turn the base sharpness down a lot to try and do what terrible "AA" this cable does. And then use another sharpening method built in to compensate.)

Don't drink the snake oil.

[ZellSF]

These cables are garbage. All they do is over sharpen the image. (The ringing is hilariously bad).
According to linus's video, you have to set the output resolution to the resolution of the video. YEAH, that's not upscaling. Your TV is still doing all the work num nuts. It's still being fed that same resolution signal.

As for the AA,all it's doing is a simple "pixel area pass threshold?> Yes?>filter image>Then sharpen the shit out of it to compensate"

It's not real AA, all it sees is a flat 2D image. (To even less advantage than PPAA built into games these days.).
It does no more than your TV's various sharpening methods.(My 1080p sony set has like 3 or 4 ways to sharpen the image? You could easily turn the base sharpness down a lot to try and do what terrible "AA" this cable does. And then use another sharpening method built in to compensate.)

Don't drink the snake oil.

I can understand not liking post-processing anti-aliasing, but if you think it's the same thing as turning the sharpness of your TV down, then you have no idea of what either post-processing anti-aliasing does or what TV sharpness setting does.

[orange808]

Apparently, the effect is subtle. As expected, the cable creates some fine detail loss on textures.

This could be a moderate improvement for older systems that don't offer any antialiasing.

https://youtu.be/a7IA9HsMfm0

For PC gamers, the cable seems silly. The video suggests the money you spend on the cable would be better spent on a GPU upgrade--and I agree. The video also points out that the manufacturer has exaggerated the real world benefit.

I won't be getting one of these, but it looks more interesting than I anticipated.

[citrus3000psi]

I'd like to see someone try this cable out on golden eye for the N64 with de-blur off.

[Josh128]

I'd like to see someone try this cable out on golden eye for the N64 with de-blur off.

It would probably start smoking and quite possibly melt down...

[ZellSF]

I'd like to see someone try this cable out on golden eye for the N64 with de-blur off.

Deblur off would mess with the post-process AA algorithms since you're not feeding it a natively rendered 3D image and the cable probably wouldn't accept 240p to begin with.

Edit: Plus you know, doesn't the N64 do AA natively anyway? Post-processing anti-aliasing wouldn't work without any jagged edges to find. And yes I do get the "it will be so blurry" joke you're making, I'm just saying in this scenario the mCable wouldn't work as intended at all.

[ZellSF]

For PC gamers, the cable seems silly. The video suggests the money you spend on the cable would be better spent on a GPU upgrade--and I agree. The video also points out that the manufacturer has exaggerated the real world benefit.

Unless your GPU is like 10 years old, it can probably do both post-processing antialiasing and sharpening via ReShade basically for free. No need to do a GPU upgrade either.

This cable is strictly for console games with a lot of exceptions (games that scale via the console's scaler). It's a very niche product which explains why it hasn't been made earlier and why the manufacturer tries to market it as something better/else than it is.

Linus Tech Tips and PC Perspective due to being very PC focused is probably the worst reviewers for this product. It should be reviewed by someone who can test it with various 480p and 720p consoles. Though LTT running PC games at lower resolutions at least simulates what you can expect.

[citrus3000psi]

Deblur off would mess with the post-process AA algorithms since you're not feeding it a natively rendered 3D image and the cable probably wouldn't accept 240p to begin with.

Still curious to know. The ultrahdmi line doubles to 480p.

[ZellSF]

Deblur off would mess with the post-process AA algorithms since you're not feeding it a natively rendered 3D image and the cable probably wouldn't accept 240p to begin with.

Still curious to know. The ultrahdmi line doubles to 480p.

The line doubling would most likely also cause problems for the post-process anti-aliasing algorithms. They usually rely on getting a native resolution image.

[Fudoh]

I have to admit, that - although I dislike the added ringing - these are quite impressive results right here on the Switch:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... tcount=216

I personally wouldn't use it, but I can imagine people prefering the results over the unaltered images.

[ZellSF]

Sad thing is the ringing isn't necessary. There are post-process AA methods that work without relying on artificial sharpening. Maybe in the future we'll get a product that offers this.

[Unseen]

Are there any comparisons of mCable vs. PtBi?

[GigaBoots]

Something a lot of people don't mention is how the cable ups the contrast and crushes a lot of detail in the bottom and top of the RGB signal range. As a colorist, videographer, and pixel purist, everything this cable does looks awful. The sharpening artifacts on the non-gaming one are also gross and, as many people have mentioned, you can just use your TV's sharpness.

[ZellSF]

Linus Tech Tips mentioned specifically that this cable does not do black crush (some of their captures had it because of misconfiguration), so why do you think it does?

[Xer Xian]

According to this review, the Cinema edition does mess with the black level (not necessarily crushing blacks though).

[GigaBoots]

Every sample image I’ve seen does that. Linus didn’t seem to be able to capture full rgb range IIRC, but as far as I know it does add contrast. I’d love to get one in house and show 100% of what it does but I’m not paying that much to leap on that sword for the internet.

It’s a travesty that no one reviewing this has a fully lossless 4:4:4 capture card. For christ’s sake, Linus’ capture card pre-encodes to MP4.

[Seraphic]

It’s a travesty that no one reviewing this has a fully lossless 4:4:4 capture card. For christ’s sake, Linus’ capture card pre-encodes to MP4.

I also do not have a capture card right now, but there are a few PS2/XBOX360/PS3 games I would like to try the gaming version of this cable out with.
Really interested in seeing how much of the jaggies it can clear up when upscaling them to 1080p with my CII. But sounds like it adds ringing...

[Seraphic]

It seems the mCable will process and only upscale 480p and 720p to 1080p. If it is already 1080p, it will only process it.
So, with that in mind, maybe ringing won't be so bad if you let your processor upscaler to 1080p first rather then let the mCable upscale it?

For example:
PlayStation 2 (480p) -> OSSC (Passthru) -> Crystalio II (Upscale to 1080p) -> Gaming mCable (Process Image) -> TV (Display)
VS
PlayStation 2 (480p) -> OSSC (Passthru) -> Gaming mCable (Process Image/Upscale to 1080p) -> Crystalio II (Passthru) -> TV (Display)

If you do it this way though, you might not get as good anti-aliasing.

[Fudoh]

I was under the impression that the output of the mCable Gamer Edition isn't upscaled at all.

[Seraphic]

I was under the impression that the output of the mCable Gamer Edition isn't upscaled at all.

https://blog.evanweaver.com/2017/10/25/ ... or-review/

The above review of the Gaming mCable that I came across says:

The mCable also upscales 720p input to 1080p. If you happen to have a source that renders to a 720p framebuffer, the mCable’s scaler may be an improvement over the source’s or TV’s scaler.

This review on Amazon has some more pictures:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... hisHelpful

It also says:

Games that are originally low resolution are up scaled to 1080p. I double checked and 480p and 720p sources are upscaled properly.

[ZellSF]

It seems the mCable will process and only upscale 480p and 720p to 1080p. If it is already 1080p, it will only process it.
So, with that in mind, maybe ringing won't be so bad if you let your processor upscaler to 1080p first rather then let the mCable upscale it?

For example:
PlayStation 2 (480p) -> OSSC (Passthru) -> Crystalio II (Upscale to 1080p) -> Gaming mCable (Process Image) -> TV (Display)
VS
PlayStation 2 (480p) -> OSSC (Passthru) -> Gaming mCable (Process Image/Upscale to 1080p) -> Crystalio II (Passthru) -> TV (Display)

If you do it this way though, you might not get as good anti-aliasing.

You won't get anti-aliasing at all. So no that won't work.