[Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:26 am

Hello guys, awesome forum!

I have a Snes 1 chip, Pal, I modded it with a supercic switchless board two clocks and the likes.

Works great but I get weird artifacts on static vertical lines when using 60hz/NTSC (again the console is originally PAL, scart RGB Luma cable and Pal LCD Samsung TV):

50hz good picture

https://ibb.co/gmtCzk

60hz artifacts, very visible on vertical lines:

https://ibb.co/jsrbQQ

I suspect the LCD is at fault here, would you agree ? OSSC has been ordered but won't be here before October I think....

There's also another issue which I'm experiencing, which is ghosting (nothing huge), but will have to look further into it as I think I remember this being common on 1 chips, the scart cable has the 3 resistors on RGB from what I could see taking it apart.

Hope I made some sense and posted in the right board, cheers guys!

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:13 pm

Try a luma for sync SCART cable.

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:30 pm

BuckoA51 wrote:Try a luma for sync SCART cable.

As specified that's what I am using, afaik at least.

You can see how in the middle/lower part of the 60hz the image is fine-ish at it gets jagged in the upper area.

Harrumph · Post by **Harrumph** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:36 pm

You tried with more than one game I suppose?

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:30 pm

Harrumph wrote:You tried with more than one game I suppose?

Yep...

Xer Xian · Post by **Xer Xian** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:31 am

Actually the issue is not limited to vertical lines, it's the whole picture that's misaligned (look at the sawtooth effect on the borders). I wouldn't say that's an artifact but more of a sync issue - probably the console/modchip is not sending a coherent picture at 60Hz.

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:40 am

Xer Xian wrote:Actually the issue is not limited to vertical lines, it's the whole picture that's misaligned (look at the sawtooth effect on the borders). I wouldn't say that's an artifact but more of a sync issue - probably the console/modchip is not sending a coherent picture at 60Hz.

The saw effect seems to affect only vertical lines if you look and not everywhere on the screen

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:19 pm

Can you rule out any mistakes made with the mod?
Do other systems @60hz Sync on Luma work?

Xer Xian · Post by **Xer Xian** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:25 pm

ilgello wrote:The saw effect seems to affect only vertical lines if you look and not everywhere on the screen

It affects the whole picture (although less so in the lower half), just have a look at the diagonal line I've circled here:

Edit: click to open on a separate page

Link83 · Post by **Link83** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:32 pm

The PAL SNES needs 75ohm resistors connected to ground on all the video lines - thats Red, Green, Blue plus the Composite video or Luma line. If your cable is missing a resistor (Only 3 resistors instead of 4) then that could be your issue.

kel · Post by **kel** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:47 pm

I also noticed this on my Samsung with the SNES using the Scart input. Can't remember the cause now or if I even bothered to fix it in the end, if I had to guess then I think it was sync related. It's only on the Scart input and if you use a transcoder to connect to the component input it should work fine that way, if not then it should also be fine once you receive your OSSC.

A good fix for ghosting and also the brightness issue that the 1CHIPs have is explained here by borti4938:

https://github.com/borti4938/SNES-AddOn ... xt#L65-L71

WMJ · Post by **WMJ** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:03 pm

modded PAL SNES doesn't output the same 60hz that an NTSC console would. It is more around ~59.4Hz according to my Extron device. Some displays have a problem with it since it's a little off spec. On my BVM I have to activate VCR mode to get it to sync as well. So probably the LCD display can't handle the slightly off spec refresh rate (which also explains why the 50Hz signal is fine).

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:12 pm

Great, thank you guys I thought it would be the tv (tho it s not entirely its fault).

I'll se is I can try a different tv, hopefully I won't have any issues once I'll get the ossc.

Harrumph · Post by **Harrumph** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:47 pm

WMJ wrote:modded PAL SNES doesn't output the same 60hz that an NTSC console would. It is more around ~59.4Hz according to my Extron device.

Not in this case, he's using Borti's board for 1-chips which has dual oscillators.

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:17 pm

Harrumph wrote:
WMJ wrote:modded PAL SNES doesn't output the same 60hz that an NTSC console would. It is more around ~59.4Hz according to my Extron device.
Not in this case, he's using Borti's board for 1-chips which has dual oscillators.

Correct

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:30 am

They have the same issues I think:

http://bordersdown.net/threads/88845-SN ... blem/page6

And this:

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3263.40

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:13 am

By the way the cable (PAL) I am using as been made using this schematic (I just talked to the manufacturer):

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... escart.htm

Harrumph · Post by **Harrumph** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:15 pm

Still, could be worth it to just pop open the scart head and verify the resistors are there (only takes a few seconds).

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:34 pm

Harrumph wrote:Still, could be worth it to just pop open the scart head and verify the resistors are there (only takes a few seconds).

Jep they are there

ilgello · Post by **ilgello** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:08 am

Wanted to let you know that usage of a OSSC solved the problem, my god that thing is terrific.

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:30 pm

For a possible explanation, I've seen this exact behaviour on my upscaler board when the digital sample rate and phase is at one specific setting.
The TV might be locking on to this signal that way.
A simple additional resistor on the sync line would slightly change the sample point and probably fix it.

shmups.system11.org

[Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

[Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

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Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

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Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

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Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

Re: [Modded SNES PAL] Vertical Jagged Lines on 60hz

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