Just got a Portta Composite to HDMI Upscaler

[FreezerburnV]

...and I'm trying to figure out if it has something wrong with it, or if the entire series of units has something wrong with it. When I have it running, the resulting image seems to be incredibly poor: it's very smudgy and there seems to be an alpha channel "grid pattern" over certain textures. (I say this because when a texture moves, the pattern doesn't seem to move with it) Looking closely at everything, it also looks like it's attempting to do some kind of de-pixellation of the source, as a lot of things look "smooth" where I would have expected pixellation when viewed closely. Originally I thought the problems were just an artifact of how old the consoles are, but I tested on both an N64 and Dreamcast and both of them suffered from the same poor quality, on top of comparing to images online and seeing how much clearer they are.

Does anyone have any experience with these? Should I attempt to get a new one and see if it works better? It seem like there are many people who are happy with the quality it provides (according to Amazon reviews, which could be gamed) and randomly one person who says it just didn't work, and I'm wondering if I'm one of the "didn't work"'s.

If this entire line of units doesn't work well enough to just put the N64 onto a modern LCD, what can i get that's cheap and does? I'm honestly not looking for super high quality (hence why I bought a sub $50 upscaler), I just want to have everything hooked up and look good enough to play. Right now the N64 is the only console that is going to need a way to get Composite to an HDMI input, so whatever works well with that I'm on board for. (all of my other inputs are going to be totally full when I get everything fully hooked up, only one HDMI input open. if I need to go from Composite to Component then to HDMI, that's fine, just need to get it hooked up)

[AndehX]

If you're seeing a grid pattern on the N64, it's more than likely the dithering effect that the console outputs.

Honestly though, those Portta converters are beyond terrible. I'd return it for a refund and buy something better. I've had 2 different converters from Portta in the past. S-video to HDMI, which looked awful. Produced white bars all over the screen. I just recently tried their VGA to HDMI converter, and while visually, it looked ok, it could not converter audio properly. It would come out with a higher pitch than normal.
They're crap, and not fit for purpose.

[FreezerburnV]

If you're seeing a grid pattern on the N64, it's more than likely the dithering effect that the console outputs.

Honestly though, those Portta converters are beyond terrible. I'd return it for a refund and buy something better. I've had 2 different converters from Portta in the past. S-video to HDMI, which looked awful. Produced white bars all over the screen. I just recently tried their VGA to HDMI converter, and while visually, it looked ok, it could not converter audio properly. It would come out with a higher pitch than normal.
They're crap, and not fit for purpose.

What would you recommend instead? The cheaper the better, as long as it generally looks like the game without random grid pattern over translucent parts of textures and so smudgy that the main character looks like a blob.

EDIT: Actually, the grid pattern is likely not due to the dithering pattern from the N64 console, as I saw a similar effect when I hooked it up to my Dreamcast. Mostly it seemed to be around textures that had some kind of translucency, which is why I mentioned it feeling like the alpha channel grid pattern you see when editing a picture. A couple examples of places that it showed up: around the menu text in Donkey Kong 64 (the bright yellow text, such as when in the sound options menu) and around the logo for Pokemon Snap when you need to press start to load a game. Interestingly, the grid texture was inside the logo at a couple points as well. I noticed the same issue around some text and probably a couple other places (I didn't examine as closely) when playing Puzzle Fighter 2 on the Dreamcast.

[AndehX]

I think I know what you're seeing. It could be one of 2 things. It could simply be dot crawl caused by the simple fact you're using composite.
If it looks something like this: http://home.earthlink.net/~tacosalad/vi ... age005.jpg Then it's dot crawl and there's probably nothing you can do about it, except step up to S-video or RGB.

Or it could simply be the composite signal interfering with the sync and causing the checkerboard pattern.
If it looks something like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g2XA0CGS9p8/U ... to+2-1.JPG Then its sync checkerboarding. Again, step up to S-video or RGB with CSYNC to avoid it

[FreezerburnV]

I think I know what you're seeing. It could be one of 2 things. It could simply be dot crawl caused by the simple fact you're using composite.
If it looks something like this: http://home.earthlink.net/~tacosalad/vi ... age005.jpg Then it's dot crawl and there's probably nothing you can do about it, except step up to S-video or RGB.

Or it could simply be the composite signal interfering with the sync and causing the checkerboard pattern.
If it looks something like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g2XA0CGS9p8/U ... to+2-1.JPG Then its sync checkerboarding. Again, step up to S-video or RGB with CSYNC to avoid it

Just checked what it looked like, and I'm not sure it looks like either of those. I just took a couple pictures of it (with my phone camera, so while it doesn't look good, you should be able to see the main issues) so you can see what I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/a/NA4dn

The first picture really shows off the worst of it, as you can see the checkerboard pattern really well over the pad in DK64. The second picture shows off some odd texture going across the ground, though I'm not sure if that is just an artifact of N64 rendering off the top of my head. The third picture shows how awful DK looks in the center of the screen when first starting. The last two are close ups on text that shows off a bit lesser version of what is shown on the pad.

This effect is seen with a Dreamcast I know is working properly as well.

EDIT: If it were just one of the two things you mentioned, I probably wouldn't have posted about it, as that looks completely legible compared to what I'm seeing

[AndehX]

It definitely looks like dot crawl to me. The last 2 images are 100% dot crawl, which is common in composite signals and would explain why you can see it on your Dreamcast as well. I don't think there's anything you can do about it tbh.

[orange808]

For composite signals, you are at the mercy of your comb and noise filters.

[FreezerburnV]

Alright, so since it actually is the composite signal causing the issue (and the hardware I have apparently has issues with S-Video, so that's still going back), what can I do to get it looking good? I'm pretty sure I read that the N64 has to be modified to use RGB, and I still don't know what upscaler would be affordable to take Composite/S-Video/RGB and put it into an HDMI input. Looks like it would be easy to get an S-Video cable, so I guess the easiest would be to get an affordable upscaler that doesn't cause white streaks for S-Video?

[AndehX]

yeah, try an Svideo to HDMI scaler, but DO NOT buy the Portta one.

[FreezerburnV]

yeah, try an Svideo to HDMI scaler, but DO NOT buy the Portta one.

Do you have one you've used successfully or would recommend?

[AndehX]

Do you have one you've used successfully or would recommend?

I can't help you there mate. I only tried the one and it was terrible.

[FreezerburnV]

Do you have one you've used successfully or would recommend?

I can't help you there mate. I only tried the one and it was terrible.

No worries! Thanks very much for the help in figuring out what was wrong. I can do some research to try and find something that will work well. Or maybe someone who has experience with S-Video to HDMI will see this and respond. Either way I at least have some kind of game plan to move forward.

[orange808]

Do you have one you've used successfully or would recommend?

I can't help you there mate. I only tried the one and it was terrible.

No worries! Thanks very much for the help in figuring out what was wrong. I can do some research to try and find something that will work well. Or maybe someone who has experience with S-Video to HDMI will see this and respond. Either way I at least have some kind of game plan to move forward.

There aren't any good options for $50 usd. Save your time and money.

[FreezerburnV]

There aren't any good options for $50 usd. Save your time and money.

Do you know what the options are at the low end that would actually be worthwhile?

[orange808]

There aren't any good options for $50 usd. Save your time and money.

Do you know what the options are at the low end that would actually be worthwhile?

Do you absolutely need HDMI? Can you use VGA? If so, XRGB and XRGB-2 units have sold for around $120 on eBay recently. That would work very well.

You could add a DVDO to get HDMI. The DVDO iScan HD units have been running about $70.

I included shipping in the estimates. You're probably looking at $200 usd. You will also need to be patient.

Believe it or not, the XRGB or XRGB-2 (or plus) and DVDO iScan HD (or plus) are bargains right now. Together, they would get you a decent image from composite and svideo.

Another possibility: What about a high end CRT consumer television--like a Trinitron? Those are cheap and relatively easy to find.

[FreezerburnV]

There aren't any good options for $50 usd. Save your time and money.

Do you know what the options are at the low end that would actually be worthwhile?

Do you absolutely need HDMI input? Can you use VGA? If so, XRGB and XRGB-2 units have sold for around $120 on eBay recently. That would work very well.

You could add a DVDO to get HDMI. The DVDO iScan HD units have been running about $70.

I included shipping in the estimates. You're probably looking at $200 usd. You will also need to be patient.

Believe it or not, the XRGB or XRGB-2 (or plus) and DVDO iScan HD (or plus) are bargains right now. Together, they would get you a decent image from composite and svideo.

Another possibility: What about a high end CRT consumer television--like a Trinitron? Those are cheap and relatively easy to find.

Currently, yes I do need HDMI. My setup is basically going to be a bunch of HDMI and Component cables running into a receiver that outputs to an LCD TV. With all the consoles I'm planning on hooking into it, there's two HDMI ports open to run the N64 into. (3 HDMI inputs and 1 Composite input on the back of the receiver, plus a 4-way HDMI switch and a 4-way Component switch, for a total of 6 HDMI inputs and 4 Component inputs since 1 HDMI and Component are taken up to plug the switches into. HDMI inputs will have: PS3, PS4, Wii U, Dreamcast (VGA -> HDMI upscaler), and N64. Component inputs will have: PS2, Wii, XBOX, and XBOX 360) I'm ok with chaining from Composite to something else (e.g.: VGA) to HDMI though.

A CRT isn't an option for two reasons:
1) I can hear a high-pitched sound from them that bothers me greatly
2) This isn't going into a hobby room or some such, but in the main living area where there is limited room for all the entertainment center stuff. (I already had to build a shelf to put on top of what we're using as the entertainment center in order to fit everything) This is largely because my wife is probably going to be the main person playing the N64 right now, which is why I've been focusing on cheaper rather than accuracy, as I don't think she's going to care about a minor bump in accuracy, just that it looks generally like it should

Regarding the specific units you mentioned: if that's really the cheapest option to get decent upscaling, then I'll definitely look into them. At the very least, I figure that anything I get that can handle the N64 now will be able to handle further retro consoles down the road with another switcher. I'm sure I'm going to end up with at least a SNES down the road on top of what I have. And possibly upgrade the upscaler someday if I end up running enough stuff through it that gets used enough to make it worth it (I'd love to someday have something which emulates how a CRT works, with the curvature, shadow of the last frame, etc. (something like: http://www.piratehearts.com/blog/2014/0 ... imulation/) to play Super Metroid on, so it can be played like in my childhood. I don't know if something like that even exists though)

[AndehX]

A CRT isn't an option for two reasons:
1) I can hear a high-pitched sound from them that bothers me greatly

Thats part of the novelty of having a CRT. That sound is the sound of my childhood xD

2) This isn't going into a hobby room or some such, but in the main living area where there is limited room for all the entertainment center stuff. (I already had to build a shelf to put on top of what we're using as the entertainment center in order to fit everything) This is largely because my wife is probably going to be the main person playing the N64 right now, which is why I've been focusing on cheaper rather than accuracy, as I don't think she's going to care about a minor bump in accuracy, just that it looks generally like it should

Fair point.

[orange808]

Do you absolutely need HDMI input? Can you use VGA? If so, XRGB and XRGB-2 units have sold for around $120 on eBay recently. That would work very well.

You could add a DVDO to get HDMI. The DVDO iScan HD units have been running about $70.

I included shipping in the estimates. You're probably looking at $200 usd. You will also need to be patient.

Believe it or not, the XRGB or XRGB-2 (or plus) and DVDO iScan HD (or plus) are bargains right now. Together, they would get you a decent image from composite and svideo.

Another possibility: What about a high end CRT consumer television--like a Trinitron? Those are cheap and relatively easy to find.

Currently, yes I do need HDMI. My setup is basically going to be a bunch of HDMI and Component cables running into a receiver that outputs to an LCD TV. With all the consoles I'm planning on hooking into it, there's two HDMI ports open to run the N64 into. (3 HDMI inputs and 1 Composite input on the back of the receiver, plus a 4-way HDMI switch and a 4-way Component switch, for a total of 6 HDMI inputs and 4 Component inputs since 1 HDMI and Component are taken up to plug the switches into. HDMI inputs will have: PS3, PS4, Wii U, Dreamcast (VGA -> HDMI upscaler), and N64. Component inputs will have: PS2, Wii, XBOX, and XBOX 360) I'm ok with chaining from Composite to something else (e.g.: VGA) to HDMI though.

A CRT isn't an option for two reasons:
1) I can hear a high-pitched sound from them that bothers me greatly
2) This isn't going into a hobby room or some such, but in the main living area where there is limited room for all the entertainment center stuff. (I already had to build a shelf to put on top of what we're using as the entertainment center in order to fit everything) This is largely because my wife is probably going to be the main person playing the N64 right now, which is why I've been focusing on cheaper rather than accuracy, as I don't think she's going to care about a minor bump in accuracy, just that it looks generally like it should

Regarding the specific units you mentioned: if that's really the cheapest option to get decent upscaling, then I'll definitely look into them. At the very least, I figure that anything I get that can handle the N64 now will be able to handle further retro consoles down the road with another switcher. I'm sure I'm going to end up with at least a SNES down the road on top of what I have. And possibly upgrade the upscaler someday if I end up running enough stuff through it that gets used enough to make it worth it (I'd love to someday have something which emulates how a CRT works, with the curvature, shadow of the last frame, etc. (something like: http://www.piratehearts.com/blog/2014/0 ... imulation/) to play Super Metroid on, so it can be played like in my childhood. I don't know if something like that even exists though)

One more thing. Your life will be easier if you find a DVDO iScan vp30. Prices have varied wildly recently, but the cheaper ones have been about $85 total.

The iScan HD models have DVI ports and you really want HDMI.