Component and S-Video switch boxes for use with Framemeister

[Stufio]

(First post, go easy on me)

I searched this forum and couldn't find anything on this topic. If there's already a topic on this, feel free to point me in that direction.

After quite a bit of research, I think I'd like to purchase a Framemeister for my retro consoles. The problem I have (and I'm sure others have) with the Framemeister is the very limited number of inputs. As of now, I have at least 4 systems that I'd like to hook up with Component (through YPbPr to D-Terminal adapter) and at least 2 systems that I'd like to hook up with S-Video. Essentially, I need a switch box for the Component sources and a switch box for the S-Video sources. I am fine with using 2 separate switch boxes, as opposed to one giant switch box that has all of the different input types on it (does something like that even exist?). I also don't really care if they are manual switch boxes or remote-controlled. I could just buy any old switch willy nilly, but I am really concerned about loss of video quality. I've read quite a few reviews for various Component switches and S-Video switches and it seems like every one of the switches has at least one negative review about loss of video quality.
So, here is my question:
Do you guys have any recommendations for a Component switch and an S-Video switch for use with the Framemeister that DO NOT degrade video quality? If not, how do you deal with the limited number of inputs on the Framemeister?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[FBX]

Do you guys have any recommendations for a Component switch and an S-Video switch for use with the Framemeister that DO NOT degrade video quality?

I have an old Gamestop passive component/s-video switch box that has worked fine for me. Has 4 different inputs for full stereo-component-s-video-composite. I'm sure you can still find them with a little searching on the net.

Amazon example:

https://www.amazon.com/Gamestop-BB-016- ... B0057FSORE



.

[ZellSF]

More details on your setup?

You have a XRGB-mini and what consoles? Which TV do you have?

[Stufio]

More details on your setup?

You have a XRGB-mini and what consoles? Which TV do you have?

Sorry, I didn't realize all that info would be relevant.
I don't own a Framemeister yet, but plan on buying one. Before I list my consoles, I want to make one comment: I have not modded any of my consoles, so I am trying to get the best quality that the consoles natively output.
1. Wii - 480p thrpugh component
2. PS2 - 480i through component
3. SNES - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
4. Genesis - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
5. N64 - 240p through S-Video
6. NES - 240p through S-Video (Composite fed to Kramer FC-10D comb filter that outputs S-Video)
My TV is nothing special: a 50" Vizio 1080p flatscreen.

[bobrocks95]

I've yet to find a component switch that doesn't muck with the signal in some way, so I'm hoping through HDMI mods I can get down to a single component source (original Xbox, because nobody's developing an HDMI mod for that this decade).

Audio Authority switches boost the signal and cause sync dropouts, Pelican switches add noise, even the powered ones, and I doubt any cheap mechanical ones like the GameStop (which looks to be a rebranded Pelican to me) are wired correctly- I would guess a bit of filtering the Framemeister is doing is masking some noise.

[beharius]

Wait for the superg's gcompsw...

[Stufio]

I've yet to find a component switch that doesn't muck with the signal in some way

So, how do you deal with multiple inputs? Are you literally unplugging and replugging each console every time you want to play? I want to avoid that with a switcher, but I really don't want to lose video quality if I'm paying that much for a Framemeister and all those cables.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I just use these for my s-video, would be nice to have a single one as I daisy chain one of the inputs.

[bobrocks95]

I've yet to find a component switch that doesn't muck with the signal in some way

So, how do you deal with multiple inputs? Are you literally unplugging and replugging each console every time you want to play? I want to avoid that with a switcher, but I really don't want to lose video quality if I'm paying that much for a Framemeister and all those cables.

Right now I am using an Audio Authority switch and dealing with the occasional de-syncs on bright scenes. Considering the original cost of around $2,000 I think it's completely unacceptable that it doesn't perform absolutely perfectly.

Considering how cheap they are, you could definitely get a mechanical switch and see how it performs- like I said, I think the Framemeister is doing a little bit of low-pass filtering that probably hides some of the noise, but my plasma is nowhere near as kind.

gcompsw does seem like a good option, but I'd hope it's a LOT cheaper than his SCART switch, and if the PCB layout stays the same as the prototype images, it won't fit into a shelf nicely at all.

[Ikaruga11]

Just get a CRT. Way cheaper and gives better results.

[bobrocks95]

Just get a CRT. Way cheaper and gives better results.

Who are you talking to? With a CRT he'd still want a switch, so that doesn't solve any problem...

[Lord of Pirates]

I've yet to find a component switch that doesn't muck with the signal in some way

So, how do you deal with multiple inputs? Are you literally unplugging and replugging each console every time you want to play? I want to avoid that with a switcher, but I really don't want to lose video quality if I'm paying that much for a Framemeister and all those cables.

Right now I am using an Audio Authority switch and dealing with the occasional de-syncs on bright scenes. Considering the original cost of around $2,000 I think it's completely unacceptable that it doesn't perform absolutely perfectly.

Considering how cheap they are, you could definitely get a mechanical switch and see how it performs- like I said, I think the Framemeister is doing a little bit of low-pass filtering that probably hides some of the noise, but my plasma is nowhere near as kind.

gcompsw does seem like a good option, but I'd hope it's a LOT cheaper than his SCART switch, and if the PCB layout stays the same as the prototype images, it won't fit into a shelf nicely at all.

Really? I've had no trouble with my 1154A other than it needing to be turned on first.

Edit: I'm not doubting you or anything, just curious.

[Stufio]

I just use these for my s-video, would be nice to have a single one as I daisy chain one of the inputs.

Can you tell me what brand that is? And have you noticed any loss of video quality when using the switch?

[bobrocks95]

Right now I am using an Audio Authority switch and dealing with the occasional de-syncs on bright scenes. Considering the original cost of around $2,000 I think it's completely unacceptable that it doesn't perform absolutely perfectly.

Considering how cheap they are, you could definitely get a mechanical switch and see how it performs- like I said, I think the Framemeister is doing a little bit of low-pass filtering that probably hides some of the noise, but my plasma is nowhere near as kind.

gcompsw does seem like a good option, but I'd hope it's a LOT cheaper than his SCART switch, and if the PCB layout stays the same as the prototype images, it won't fit into a shelf nicely at all.

Really? I've had no trouble with my 1154A other than it needing to be turned on first.

Edit: I'm not doubting you or anything, just curious.

Maybe the simpler design fares better? Here's my switch- https://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/1166

I haven't tried one of the other switches from them, but I thought someone else on here had told me their switch did the same thing. A really simple way to check was the Kingdom Hearts title screen coming up, selecting a level in Super Mario Galaxy, or any other all-white screen.

[jdawg131]

Here are the switches that I've used or am currently using with the XRGB Mini:

S-Video - Sony SB-V40S (4 x 1 switch). Decent build quality (hard plastic), but zero issues. Tons of very positive reviews.
Component - Key Digital KD-CSW2X1 (2 x 1 switch). They also have a 4 x 1 version. This is a pro grade switch that is built like a tank. Every review that I read was positive.

I was able to snag both brand new, and sealed on eBay for ~$25 each.

[jdawg131]

More details on your setup?

You have a XRGB-mini and what consoles? Which TV do you have?

Sorry, I didn't realize all that info would be relevant.
I don't own a Framemeister yet, but plan on buying one. Before I list my consoles, I want to make one comment: I have not modded any of my consoles, so I am trying to get the best quality that the consoles natively output.
1. Wii - 480p thrpugh component
2. PS2 - 480i through component
3. SNES - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
4. Genesis - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
5. N64 - 240p through S-Video
6. NES - 240p through S-Video (Composite fed to Kramer FC-10D comb filter that outputs S-Video)
My TV is nothing special: a 50" Vizio 1080p flatscreen.

For the two switches that I recommended, I had all of these systems, except for the Genesis, running into them. PS2 and Wii into the Component switch, and SNES, SFC, N64, and NES (composite) into the Sony S-Video switch. I had to run both composite and S-video into the switch and out to the XRGB Mini (for the NES). Sounds like you wouldn't need to due to the comb filter. Zero loss in picture or sound quality.

[Stufio]

More details on your setup?

You have a XRGB-mini and what consoles? Which TV do you have?

Sorry, I didn't realize all that info would be relevant.
I don't own a Framemeister yet, but plan on buying one. Before I list my consoles, I want to make one comment: I have not modded any of my consoles, so I am trying to get the best quality that the consoles natively output.
1. Wii - 480p thrpugh component
2. PS2 - 480i through component
3. SNES - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
4. Genesis - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
5. N64 - 240p through S-Video
6. NES - 240p through S-Video (Composite fed to Kramer FC-10D comb filter that outputs S-Video)
My TV is nothing special: a 50" Vizio 1080p flatscreen.

For the two switches that I recommended, I had all of these systems, except for the Genesis, running into them. PS2 and Wii into the Component switch, and SNES, SFC, N64, and NES (composite) into the Sony S-Video switch. I had to run both composite and S-video into the switch and out to the XRGB Mini (for the NES). Sounds like you wouldn't need to due to the comb filter. Zero loss in picture or sound quality.

Thank you for the info! I am happy to hear that there is no loss of quality, but I'd like to ask a more specific question: Do both switches allow for 240p? I imagine the Sony S-Video switch does not "edit" the signal as it's unpowered. I looked up the manual for the Key Digital Component switch and it specifically says "Any resolution from 480i to 1080p." It could be that they just didn't list 240p, as it's essentially only found in gaming. Have you looked at the Framemeister when running 240p through Component to see if it registers as 240p or 480i? If not, I would love it if you could test that out and see.

[jdawg131]

Thank you for the info! I am happy to hear that there is no loss of quality, but I'd like to ask a more specific question: Do both switches allow for 240p? I imagine the Sony S-Video switch does not "edit" the signal as it's unpowered. I looked up the manual for the Key Digital Component switch and it specifically says "Any resolution from 480i to 1080p." It could be that they just didn't list 240p, as it's essentially only found in gaming. Have you looked at the Framemeister when running 240p through Component to see if it registers as 240p or 480i? If not, I would love it if you could test that out and see.

Neither switch has an issue with 240p. I use my PS2 for PSOne games, and the Wii for VC. It also has no issues with 480i / 480p.

[bobrocks95]

240p is a slight modification of a 480i signal, so it's highly unlikely you'd see it listed for video equipment, or that a 240p signal would be modified if it doesn't upscale.

Of course the Framemeister is the exception to the rule since it's for gaming.

[Stufio]

Thank you for the info! I am happy to hear that there is no loss of quality, but I'd like to ask a more specific question: Do both switches allow for 240p? I imagine the Sony S-Video switch does not "edit" the signal as it's unpowered. I looked up the manual for the Key Digital Component switch and it specifically says "Any resolution from 480i to 1080p." It could be that they just didn't list 240p, as it's essentially only found in gaming. Have you looked at the Framemeister when running 240p through Component to see if it registers as 240p or 480i? If not, I would love it if you could test that out and see.

Neither switch has an issue with 240p. I use my PS2 for PSOne games, and the Wii for VC. It also has no issues with 480i / 480p.

240p is a slight modification of a 480i signal, so it's highly unlikely you'd see it listed for video equipment, or that a 240p signal would be modified if it doesn't upscale.

Of course the Framemeister is the exception to the rule since it's for gaming.

That's good to know that both switches will produce an image. What I'm assuming (I could be wrong) you mean by your statement is that PSOne games through your PS2 Component show up on the TV. It would be great if you could provide a little more info (bear with me). Isn't there an option on the Framemeister's onscreen menu to see the current input resolution? I know that when I plug my 240p consoles into my TV (and several other video processors) they register as 480i, meaning that the TV (or video processor) is applying unnecessary deinterlacing to the already progressive signal. I guess what I'm getting at is: When you run a 240p console through either of those switches, does the onscreen menu of the Framemeister show that it is receiving 240p or 480i? If running them through those switches doesn't diminish video quality AND doesn't affect 240p reaching the Framemeister (rather than it being interpreted as 480i) then those switches are probably pretty good.
Sorry if that sounds like the same question I asked earlier, I just want to be very specific about what I mean.
Thank you for all this information, by the way.

[jdawg131]

That's good to know that both switches will produce an image. What I'm assuming (I could be wrong) you mean by your statement is that PSOne games through your PS2 Component show up on the TV. It would be great if you could provide a little more info (bear with me). Isn't there an option on the Framemeister's onscreen menu to see the current input resolution? I know that when I plug my 240p consoles into my TV (and several other video processors) they register as 480i, meaning that the TV (or video processor) is applying unnecessary deinterlacing to the already progressive signal. I guess what I'm getting at is: When you run a 240p console through either of those switches, does the onscreen menu of the Framemeister show that it is receiving 240p or 480i? If running them through those switches doesn't diminish video quality AND doesn't affect 240p reaching the Framemeister (rather than it being interpreted as 480i) then those switches are probably pretty good.
Sorry if that sounds like the same question I asked earlier, I just want to be very specific about what I mean.
Thank you for all this information, by the way.

With both switches, the XRGB Mini shows the resolution as 240p when it's a 240p game. I don't have a Playstation - I use my PS2 exclusively for PSOne games. Most of the PSOne's library is 240p. The switch passes 240p without issue to the XRGB Mini for scaling / processing. Two perfect example of it clearly distinguishing between 240p (in game) and 480i (menus): ESPN MLS Gamenight (PSOne) and Mega Man X Collection (PS2). The Sony S-video switch would also pass 240p without issue (the vast majority of SFC, SNES, and N64 games). When I played Rogue Squadron (N64) with the expansion pak (high res), the XRGB Mini showed the resolution as 480i. You have no worries with the two switches that I recommended.

[Stufio]

That's good to know that both switches will produce an image. What I'm assuming (I could be wrong) you mean by your statement is that PSOne games through your PS2 Component show up on the TV. It would be great if you could provide a little more info (bear with me). Isn't there an option on the Framemeister's onscreen menu to see the current input resolution? I know that when I plug my 240p consoles into my TV (and several other video processors) they register as 480i, meaning that the TV (or video processor) is applying unnecessary deinterlacing to the already progressive signal. I guess what I'm getting at is: When you run a 240p console through either of those switches, does the onscreen menu of the Framemeister show that it is receiving 240p or 480i? If running them through those switches doesn't diminish video quality AND doesn't affect 240p reaching the Framemeister (rather than it being interpreted as 480i) then those switches are probably pretty good.
Sorry if that sounds like the same question I asked earlier, I just want to be very specific about what I mean.
Thank you for all this information, by the way.

With both switches, the XRGB Mini shows the resolution as 240p when it's a 240p game. I don't have a Playstation - I use my PS2 exclusively for PSOne games. Most of the PSOne's library is 240p. The switch passes 240p without issue to the XRGB Mini for scaling / processing. Two perfect example of it clearly distinguishing between 240p (in game) and 480i (menus): ESPN MLS Gamenight (PSOne) and Mega Man X Collection (PS2). The Sony S-video switch would also pass 240p without issue (the vast majority of SFC, SNES, and N64 games). When I played Rogue Squadron (N64) with the expansion pak (high res), the XRGB Mini showed the resolution as 480i. You have no worries with the two switches that I recommended.

Great! Thank you for providing such detailed info!

[ZellSF]

More details on your setup?

You have a XRGB-mini and what consoles? Which TV do you have?

Sorry, I didn't realize all that info would be relevant.
I don't own a Framemeister yet, but plan on buying one. Before I list my consoles, I want to make one comment: I have not modded any of my consoles, so I am trying to get the best quality that the consoles natively output.
1. Wii - 480p thrpugh component
2. PS2 - 480i through component
3. SNES - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
4. Genesis - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
5. N64 - 240p through S-Video
6. NES - 240p through S-Video (Composite fed to Kramer FC-10D comb filter that outputs S-Video)
My TV is nothing special: a 50" Vizio 1080p flatscreen.

Could be relevant to see if maybe you could eliminate the need for either switch. Seems not. Not sure why you're not using RGB cables for either your SNES or Genesis though, you have the input for it and it will be very slightly better quality than the HDRetrovision cables.

I personally wouldn't run either Wii or PS2 through a XRGB-mini, but directly to your TV.
XRGB-mini's 480p handling supposedly isn't anything special and it will still add 25ms lag. XRGB-mini's 480i handling is decent though and your TV might be laggier with 480i material. So very dependent on your TV which would turn out best here, but I definitely would try the PS2 on the TV.

Can't give any recommendations on s-video switches, but for component switches I really liked Zektor's HDS4. It's passively designed so it won't actually touch the signal (nor amplify it, use good cables), but it's also IR controlled. Only problems I had with it was no automatic switching (duh, since it doesn't read the signal). There's two revisions, HDS4.1 which adds front panel buttons and HDS4.2 which adds a second buffered output.

Today I'd probably wait for superg's gcompsw. Just a simple automatic 4 port switch. If the quality of his scart switch is anything to go by, it'll be really good (and probably in high demand and low supply for a while).

[jdawg131]

I personally wouldn't run either Wii or PS2 through a XRGB-mini, but directly to your TV. XRGB-mini's 480p handling supposedly isn't anything special and it will still add 25ms lag. XRGB-mini's 480i handling is decent though and your TV might be laggier with 480i material. So very dependent on your TV which would turn out best here, but I definitely would try the PS2 on the TV.

I highly doubt that his TV is going to handle 240p (PSOne games) and 480i (95%+ of PS2 games) as well as the XRGB Mini. I'm not sure what his 480p games would be, but pretty much all of mine are Capcom and SNK 2D Sprite based games. Being able to add scan lines is essential. You can make a case for the Wii though, since it's a 480p system. I run mine through the Mini due to the Virtual Console and GameCube games (only half of my GC games support 480p).

[ZellSF]

I personally wouldn't run either Wii or PS2 through a XRGB-mini, but directly to your TV. XRGB-mini's 480p handling supposedly isn't anything special and it will still add 25ms lag. XRGB-mini's 480i handling is decent though and your TV might be laggier with 480i material. So very dependent on your TV which would turn out best here, but I definitely would try the PS2 on the TV.

I highly doubt that his TV is going to handle 240p (PSOne games) and 480i (95%+ of PS2 games) as well as the XRGB Mini.

Depends very much on what he's looking for. It very well might. My TV's deinterlacing is about equal to the XRGB-mini's for most purposes and it saves me 25ms lag.

[Lord of Pirates]

Maybe the simpler design fares better? Here's my switch- https://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/1166

I haven't tried one of the other switches from them, but I thought someone else on here had told me their switch did the same thing. A really simple way to check was the Kingdom Hearts title screen coming up, selecting a level in Super Mario Galaxy, or any other all-white screen.

Is the FW up to date? I guess there's always the possibility updating it might cause more trouble. I'll give SMG a spin later and report back.

[Stufio]

More details on your setup?

You have a XRGB-mini and what consoles? Which TV do you have?

Sorry, I didn't realize all that info would be relevant.
I don't own a Framemeister yet, but plan on buying one. Before I list my consoles, I want to make one comment: I have not modded any of my consoles, so I am trying to get the best quality that the consoles natively output.
1. Wii - 480p thrpugh component
2. PS2 - 480i through component
3. SNES - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
4. Genesis - 240p through component (plan on buying HDRetrovision cables)
5. N64 - 240p through S-Video
6. NES - 240p through S-Video (Composite fed to Kramer FC-10D comb filter that outputs S-Video)
My TV is nothing special: a 50" Vizio 1080p flatscreen.

Could be relevant to see if maybe you could eliminate the need for either switch. Seems not. Not sure why you're not using RGB cables for either your SNES or Genesis though, you have the input for it and it will be very slightly better quality than the HDRetrovision cables.

I personally wouldn't run either Wii or PS2 through a XRGB-mini, but directly to your TV.
XRGB-mini's 480p handling supposedly isn't anything special and it will still add 25ms lag. XRGB-mini's 480i handling is decent though and your TV might be laggier with 480i material. So very dependent on your TV which would turn out best here, but I definitely would try the PS2 on the TV.

Can't give any recommendations on s-video switches, but for component switches I really liked Zektor's HDS4. It's passively designed so it won't actually touch the signal (nor amplify it, use good cables), but it's also IR controlled. Only problems I had with it was no automatic switching (duh, since it doesn't read the signal). There's two revisions, HDS4.1 which adds front panel buttons and HDS4.2 which adds a second buffered output.

Today I'd probably wait for superg's gcompsw. Just a simple automatic 4 port switch. If the quality of his scart switch is anything to go by, it'll be really good (and probably in high demand and low supply for a while).

Thank you for your input. I was honestly aiming for the HDRetrovision cables for simplicity and price. I figured that, being from North America, I would future-proof my consoles using Component over RGB Scart, since none of my equipment at all includes Scart. I also thought that it might be less expensive to get 4 Component cables and 1 Component switch over 2 component cables with a Component switch and 2 Scart cables with a Scart Switch and Scart to JP21 adaptor. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll calculate the prices of both options.

I'll look at the HDS4 switch. Thanks for the recommendation.

[Guspaz]

The HD Retrovision cables work great, and (speaking from experience) they're exactly the same image quality as RGB SCART (on my PVM anyhow), but they do cost a bit more than RGB SCART cables. If you're only using two of them and already have a few other component consoles, then it would make sense to just use the HDR cables into the same component switch as your other consoles use. If, however, you had more than two consoles in need of the HDR cables, it might have made more sense to output RGB to a SCART switch and just do the RGB to component conversion on the output (or keep it RGB into the display/scaler if supported by that) instead of on each individual console.

Based on the description that you wrote, the HDR cables do seem like a better option, since it's just two RGB consoles mixed in with other component consoles.

Of course, if you start modding the N64 and NES for RGB, then that might be a different story. Then you'd have enough RGB consoles to justify the SCART switch.

The gscartsw is crazy expensive and won't be useful to you unless you have all of your consoles on RGB SCART, which is impossible when you've got stuff like the Wii in the mix. If you just have a few scart devices, there are way cheaper options for 5 inputs and less that cost a fraction as much. Don't get me wrong, the gscartsw is a very good product, but it's priced for the ultra-enthusiast niche.

[Stufio]

The HD Retrovision cables work great, and (speaking from experience) they're exactly the same image quality as RGB SCART (on my PVM anyhow), but they do cost a bit more than RGB SCART cables. If you're only using two of them and already have a few other component consoles, then it would make sense to just use the HDR cables into the same component switch as your other consoles use. If, however, you had more than two consoles in need of the HDR cables, it might have made more sense to output RGB to a SCART switch and just do the RGB to component conversion on the output (or keep it RGB into the display/scaler if supported by that) instead of on each individual console.

Based on the description that you wrote, the HDR cables do seem like a better option, since it's just two RGB consoles mixed in with other component consoles.

Of course, if you start modding the N64 and NES for RGB, then that might be a different story. Then you'd have enough RGB consoles to justify the SCART switch.

The gscartsw is crazy expensive and won't be useful to you unless you have all of your consoles on RGB SCART, which is impossible when you've got stuff like the Wii in the mix. If you just have a few scart devices, there are way cheaper options for 5 inputs and less that cost a fraction as much. Don't get me wrong, the gscartsw is a very good product, but it's priced for the ultra-enthusiast niche.

That was my thought process as well. Thanks for the input!

[bobrocks95]

Maybe the simpler design fares better? Here's my switch- https://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/1166

I haven't tried one of the other switches from them, but I thought someone else on here had told me their switch did the same thing. A really simple way to check was the Kingdom Hearts title screen coming up, selecting a level in Super Mario Galaxy, or any other all-white screen.

Is the FW up to date? I guess there's always the possibility updating it might cause more trouble. I'll give SMG a spin later and report back.

The firmware is the newest available, and I emailed Audio Authority to verify that it can't be downgraded, so I can't try an earlier version. Oh, and the firmware also got rid of the auto-switching feature, so it's manual switching only. Again, not sure how anybody would have put up with it for $2,000.

Sorry to derail the thread just a bit!
On topic I'll say that anybody just now getting into RGB should go ahead and skip SCART entirely if they think they'll ever want a switch for it (and don't live in Europe). I now use DB-15 connectors and a 12 input professional-grade Extron VGA switch I got for $20 on ebay. Those with fewer consoles, or mixing component sources in, should probably go with Retrovision cables, as mentioned above.