Scaler Setup Dvdo iscan hd and faroudja vp400a

[GoXoD]

Hi all,

Just was wondering I Just bought a Faroudja VP400a because I saw it was really reasonably priced..

I currently have the dvdo iscan hd and it looks pretty good, I had read prior on retrogaming.hazard that most of the scalers were compared to the Faroudja which lead me to believe they were amazing.
The VP400a is on its way and im excited to see what it can do, the questions I have are as follows.

Was the VP400a worth the $75 I payed? Im going to use it on nes - ps2..

Should I link it into the dvdo? i.e. Extron Crosspoint 300 128 to dvdo to vp400a to sony lcd?

Any tips would be super appreciative, I fully don't understand scalers / linedoublers and I have been reading for weeks and its making less and less sense..

[nissling]

I'd easily take the Faroudja VP400a over an iScan HD. I had the latter and have had several processors by Faroudja, and the DVDOs have so many issues in my way. Deinterlacing is stellar but nearly anything else is barely mediocre at best. Faroudjas tend to be much more even in quality.

[GoXoD]

Thanks for the heads up!

Do you know if it might have any issues with 240p content, I read on avs that the vp400 would only accept 480i input?
I'm a little worried that this unit might have the same restrictions.

[Fudoh]

Are you aware that the VP400 is a QUADRUPLER and NOTHING else ?

The VP400 will output at 960p which is incompatible with almost any TV. On a monitor or projector you might have have more luck.

On the input side the VP400 would be identical to almost all the other Faroudjas, so it should be fine with 240p as long as you provide a clean sync signal.

[GoXoD]

Thank you for the heads up fudoh, ya I had no clue.

I thought it would be selectable, like double / triple / quad..

So then if I went and took this 960p output and put that to the DVD It should output a resolution that the TV would understand but I assume it will add lag and that's why I should not do it?

Or reverse it 240p to DVD output 480p to VP then quadruple to 1080p, but again lag I suppose...

[Fudoh]

Your iScan HD can't process 960p either.

Faroudja did processors with just a single output resolution for many years to come. The Faroudja NRS series was available with a single preset resolution to match various projectors - and that was nearly 10 years after the VP400.

Find a gamer who uses a PC monitor or a compatible projector, sell it and get another processor.

[Blair]

GoXoD, hi!

reading your post, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve with either of these video processors. the DVDO HD is a pretty good all around unit, with only a few caveats really.

240p looks really nice on these units (I think), especially when paired with a scanline generator. (if you don't like scanlines that's okay) how are you connecting the NES to the DVDO? the biggest issue with 240p is input lag, which I believe is around 37ms to 42ms (I'd have to check again) but that's really not too bad especially if your TV has a decent Game Mode (have you enabled it?). ( what model of Sony LCD are you using?)

480i sources like a PS2 can look pretty great as well (I'm assuming you're using component video?) the only downside, its about the same input lag as 240p, and some graphical elements have interlaced flicker (thin lines on menus, life bars in fighting games). although I have a working theory that the S-Video input on the DVDO HD/HD+ produces superior visual quality for interlaced sources. (that's how it works on my unit at least). if you have the official s-video cable for your PS2, you should give that a try on your HD and see how it looks. you have to use the DVDO picture adjustments settings to get the best visuals (sharpness setting of about 10-15 looks pretty good), the only downside is that deep reds might bloom a little bit.

480p sources, like an original Xbox or Dreamcast scale excellent on these units and have virtually no input lag (6ms). if your television does a poor job of processing 480p then I suggest you take advantage of your DVDO HD. (you can even hook at PC up to it!)

[GoXoD]

Thank you guys for the info,

Blair, I guess I'm trying to get the best possible picture without dropping $300+ on a xrgb-mini as that is a lot of cash for me and I don't like the Resolution switching flaw.
I did think about getting an slg but I have not gotten to it yet.

My current TV is a 42" Sony kdl-s2000,
Also my nes is not modded yet but I will be buying the Tim Worthington rgb mod.

Basically I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row for my game room that I will be building in a few years,
also I have many consoles to hook up not just nes and ps2 I think I worded it wrong before.
I have almost every ntsc console from nes on up, I am just not 100% sure on what would be the best setup for me and I have been collecting pieces hoping to have the whole setup with in this time frame.

I guess I was thinking I needed a separate processor for the earlier consoles, I jumped on the vp400A because of all the things I read about Faroudja being the best but I just did not understand that it had a fixed output resolution..


Thanks again I appreciate all the help as I'm kinda new to this part of retro collecting.

[accaris]

I guess I was thinking I needed a separate processor for the earlier consoles, I jumped on the vp400A because of all the things I read about Faroudja being the best but I just did not understand that it had a fixed output resolution..
Thanks again I appreciate all the help as I'm kinda new to this part of retro collecting.

Faroudja IS very good, but only if you get the right model. AFAIK the Faroudja Picture Plus DVP-1000 and above do not have a fixed output resolution, and function the way that you'd expect them too, but their performance probably isn't going to be much better than an iScan HD.

Personally, I wish I had never sold my iScan HD, because even though it had 2 frames of input lag, Super Nintendo looked pretty amazing through it and the DVI-to-HDMI capability was very convenient. The iScan should do everything you need it to do. The composite scaling was not the best compared to other models out there, but for S-video and better it was great.

[nissling]

I don't regret a second selling my iScan HD. Didn't have any issues with latency but picture wasn't any good. There was so much ringing and colors were always off when I used the RGBs input.

Two weeks ago I saw it on a CRT projector, a Sony VPH-1271Q, running a modded Mega Drive in 60Hz through RGBs and the picture was waaay too soft among with plenty of other issues. We then plugged it directly into the projector and the image was so much better that you wouldn't believe it. At the same time we played around some with my old Crystalio VPS-2300 and while it's not that good for 240p either it outperformed the iScan HD when it came to 480i completely.

[GoXoD]

That's really odd I have only tested my iscan with ps2, but it looked great.
I had an extron dds-402 before and that looked like crap, ringing, odd artifacts, bluring.

I found a Faroudja LD100 Video Line Doubler for $65 worth it? or pass.

[accaris]

That's really odd I have only tested my iscan with ps2, but it looked great.
I had an extron dds-402 before and that looked like crap, ringing, odd artifacts, bluring.

I found a Faroudja LD100 Video Line Doubler for $65 worth it? or pass.

The Extron DDS-402 is quite an old scaler, dating back to 2001. Their "newer" scalers are definitely way better.

[Fudoh]

I found a Faroudja LD100 Video Line Doubler for $65 worth it? or pass.

I actually like it. Doesn't perform much different than later Faroudja units. Very raw. You need clean sync on the RGBs input and the machine is RIDICULOUSLY huge.

[Blair]

I don't regret a second selling my iScan HD. Didn't have any issues with latency but picture wasn't any good. There was so much ringing and colors were always off when I used the RGBs input.

Two weeks ago I saw it on a CRT projector, a Sony VPH-1271Q, running a modded Mega Drive in 60Hz through RGBs and the picture was waaay too soft among with plenty of other issues. We then plugged it directly into the projector and the image was so much better that you wouldn't believe it. At the same time we played around some with my old Crystalio VPS-2300 and while it's not that good for 240p either it outperformed the iScan HD when it came to 480i completely.

that doesn't sound right, HD/HD+ shouldn't have any visible ringing in their scaling engines. and I just played through SoulBlade the other day on my HD+, connecting my PsOne via RGB scart with an RGBs break-out cable. RGB/Component 240p looks fantastic. (480i sources also look fine).

I also use it a lot for its digital input (480p and 720p look excellent on this processor). something must've been wrong with your unit or you must of been using really bad cables.

as far as the Sony VPH-1271Q, I'm sure it probably did look great. those things had some amazing visual tech, I'd love to see somebody do an in-depth analysis of how various projectors handle all of the common signals we use (240p etc.) I imagine that the VPH-1271Q probably just line doubled the image without much additional scaling. (what resolution was it outputting at?)

[nissling]

I've seen plenty of ringing on my iScan HD whenever using its scaling engine for Laserdiscs. If I let it output 480p however, it's all gone and that's a good thing but image is still too soft and digitized for Laserdisc imo. For 240p, I guess I'm spoiled by my Framemeister but that's my standard by now.

I don't see why the digital input on the iScan HD would be anything special? It's only passthrough AFAIK. I don't give a crap about cables as difference is only marginal at best.

The Sony VPH-1271Q was a nice projector for its time but personally I think it has aged too much, at least the one I saw. White balance isn't that great and convergence cannot be perfected, plus there's uniformity issues. I wouldn't recommend going up to 720p or higher on this projector as the scanlines just blend into each other at these resolutions which will look very bad. SVGA (800x600) is probably ideal. It shows 240p natively however giving some great looking scanlines and that's probably what I like the most with it. Wouldn't want one in my home.

[Blair]

I don't see why the digital input on the iScan HD would be anything special? It's only passthrough AFAIK. I don't give a crap about cables as difference is only marginal at best.

you have to set DVI input to "auto" not passthrough.

HD process 480p and 576p. passes through 720p, 1080i

HD+ process 480p, 720p, 1080i.

I've seen plenty of ringing on my iScan HD whenever using its scaling engine for Laserdiscs. If I let it output 480p however, it's all gone and that's a good thing but image is still too soft and digitized for Laserdisc imo

that still doesn't make any sense, if it has ringing in one output mode it should have them in every output mode. (like the vp50) are you sure the ringing isn't coming from your display? or perhaps you are seeing some kind of video anomaly from the LD player ( how was it connected to the HD?)

[nissling]

Didn't know that, but I wouldn't have any use of it. Anyway...

I go after what my eyes are seeing and whenever I choose it to output anything over 480p I got ringing. If I set it to 480p, I didn't. Simple as that. Tried it out on two displays in various modes, including PC mode (which never gives any artifacts of such) and I could see it. The player was a CLD-R7G, connected through S-video.

[Blair]

I'm sorry to hear that, I do remember having problems with fast-moving images getting a kind of motion blur outline when it came to interlaced sources on my original HD, and I only have my HD+ currently outputting at 480p (attached to a PVM) so perhaps that's why I'm not noticing the same visual anomalies you are. I'll be testing the HD+ at higher resolution sometime later this year when I pair it with an OSSC (once it finally arrives). I'll definitely be on the lookout for the things you described.

thinks for the info!

overall, I still think HD and HD+ still have their uses as general-purpose processors for games (and maybe movies). but of course things like the frame meister and OSSC make them largely obsolete. especially when using newer displays.

but since the OP has a DVDO that he'd like to use, that's why I was making some suggestions. (it also seems like his screen model is fairly old so I'm not sure what it's upscaling capabilities are like)

what do you currently use to scale your laser disk content?

[nissling]

Right now I don't even have a proper scaler for Laserdisc, since I've sold off all of my HT processors and my LD player will be sold very soon as well. I've pretty much given up on the format since it's not worth the hassle at all when even DVDs are clearly superior and much cheaper. When I was into it however, my favorite processor was the already mentioned Crystalio VPS-2300. Softer deinterlacing than my DVDOs and it took some time to get through the menus, but otherwise it's Faroudja at its finest. There was nearly nothing it couldn't do to improve my LDs.

If you let the DVDO output 480p there's potential to get a pretty nice image out of it from 15KHz sources, so if you've got a set that handles 480p well it's certainly an alternative. I haven't used the OSSC and since it cannot output 1080p I'm not overly keen about it. The XRGB-Mini however performs astonishingly superb on both my OLED and HD CRT (1080i should be used for latter), apart from already being great whenever used on any of my LCDs.

[Blair]

I definitely get where you're coming from, the only reason I've been interested in keeping my laser disk and VHS players around is because some content still hasn't been transferred to DVD or better formats.

although a growing hobbyist community has been digitizing laser disk and VHS exclusive content to h.265 10-bit. so that makes me hopeful, now that I have the exclusive titles I want, personally I've stopped collecting VHS and laser disk. (sometimes If I see a really rare/interesting title i'll still pick that up).

the OSSC should be getting line quadrupling (1080p) in the next few firmware updates. but it will still probably be of somewhat more complex product to use than the frame meister.

[GoXoD]

Got the vp400 in today, connected it to a monitor and It was amazing looking and i was only using svideo..



here is a shot of the dvdo,

it looks pretty close, but I believe with some adjustment it might be a lot better.

and if anyone wanted to the see the inside of one of these faroudja beasts.


I should have the line doubler next week maybe take a few shots of that one too.

after seeing the faroudja in action i'm not to sure how I want to set things up now!
I thought about maybe hooking up a projector in the future so maybe keep the vp400 just encase? lol

More then likely I will just use the line doubler if it looks the same, hook that into my nes, snes, pce, sega, ps1 have it split to my tv and pvm, then the newer consoles on the dvdo and do the same split...

[Blair]

both of those look very nice, vp400a looks a tad sharper. but don't forget that the DVDO has sharpness adjustment settings (especially with S-video, I don't think it has sharpness adjustment settings for RGB though)

I'm assuming the vp400a didn't work on the TV you had in mind?

how does the input lag feel to you on either of the units?

[GoXoD]

both of those look very nice, vp400a looks a tad sharper. but don't forget that the DVDO has sharpness adjustment settings (especially with S-video, I don't think it has sharpness adjustment settings for RGB though)

I'm assuming the vp400a didn't work on the TV you had in mind?

how does the input lag feel to you on either of the units?

lol sorry for the pics, no i did not get the chance to test on that tv this was at work on a monitor.

but the tv I had there did not work at all just as fudoh said, "I assumed he was right as from what I hear he knows alot about the topic, Lol"

ya I was kinda disappointed about the settings in the dvdo, i have no clue why they turn them off for some inputs, I don't remember if rgb is one of them.

I will have to get back to you on the lag I did not have time and might not until the end of next week due to massive a work load..

I wish I had my pvm and 240p test suit to give you super accurate numbers.