Wii Shaky/Glitchy Picture with XRGB-Mini Framemeister

[MrMFretwell]

Howdy Shmups Forum,

I figured this would be the best place to ask about the problem I am experiencing with my picture quality from the Nintendo Wii [PAL] I have after being recommended to this forum by another retro gamer/collector. Currently I have a set up which using component cables I am sending the Wii signal to an XRGB-Mini Framemeister and then upscaling to 720p60fps and then to a splitter as to capture footage for streaming and also to my HDTV, although this setup has been sent directly to the TV with the same results. This video shows the problem I am experiencing, the picture shakes and various visual glitches dominate my picture, is there any fixes for this at all? Also is it better to set the Wii up in 16:9 or 4:3 resolution?

Many thanks,

MrMFretwell

[Ikaruga11]

Also is it better to set the Wii up in 16:9 or 4:3 resolution?

Do you mind black pillarboxing? 4:3 is sharper, but 16:9 will fill your entire screen and give you more field of view.

[MrMFretwell]

Also is it better to set the Wii up in 16:9 or 4:3 resolution?

Do you mind black pillarboxing? 4:3 is sharper, but 16:9 will fill your entire screen and give you more field of view.

I don't mind the pillarboxing, I'm using this to stream gameplay, so sharper more quality picture is what I'm after for a viewer at the end.

[austin532]

There are only a few Wii games which were designed with 16:9 in mind. NSMB Wii and DKCR are the first two games that come to mind. So if you play those in 4:3 you will get a Letterboxed image.

[Ikaruga11]

There are only a few Wii games which were designed with 16:9 in mind. NSMB Wii and DKCR are the first two games that come to mind. So if you play those in 4:3 you will get a Letterboxed image.

Also Skyward Sword and Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition. There may be others.

Seriously, why were these games developed with letterboxed 4:3? Why couldn't they just display proper 4:3, then add the same anamorphic 16:9 widescreen like every other Wii and GameCube game? It blows my mind why they did this. Using letterboxed 4:3 won't improve the anamorphic 16:9 quality. It just fucks over 4:3 players. What were they thinking?

[austin532]

NSMB Wii, DCKR, and Skyward Sword came out kind of late in the systems life. I guess they figured by that time (2010, 2011) everyone was playing on widescreen tv's and would set the Wii to 16:9. RE4 was just a port of the PS2 version which already had 16:9 support.

[Guspaz]

Because by the time those games were released, 16:9 televisions were the norm, and "anamorphic 16:9" actually just means "slightly higher resolution 4:3".

IIRC, EDTVs were never common, so TVs essentially jumped from 480i to 1080i, and IIRC those 1080i CRT televisions would render 480p by upscaling it to 540p. So realistically, Wii games don't make much sense on a CRT, and should be played on a modern HDTV, at which point the real 16:9 mode is the better solution.

Of course, a CRT capable of natively displaying 480p, such as a PVM-L5, or a BVM, or a PC monitor, those would work well for the Wii, but the general public isn't doing stuff like that.

[Ikaruga11]

NSMB Wii, DCKR, and Skyward Sword came out kind of late in the systems life. I guess they figured by that time (2010, 2011) everyone was playing on widescreen tv's and would set the Wii to 16:9. RE4 was just a port of the PS2 version which already had 16:9 support.

Are you sure? The PS2 version of RE4 had terrible graphics since it was a weaker system and supposedly less optimized. Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition looks exactly like the GameCube game, with motion controls added and all the extra PS2 content. The GCN version of RE4 also displayed in a letterboxed 4:3 format, but lacked 16:9 widescreen support.

The GameCube version of Twilight Princess could only display in 4:3. The Wii version of TP also added support for 16:9 widescreen. The major difference is that Twilight Princess has a proper 4:3 display, while Resident Evil 4 forces letterboxing in 4:3.

[Guspaz]

It's the same as TV/film: if you support a 4:3 view, then your whole game must be designed around having a 4:3-safe framing. This is mostly relevant in cutscenes where the player doesn't control the camera angle.

Twilight Princess was a GameCube game, and the GameCube was primarily 4:3, so they needed the game to be 4:3-safe. Skyward Sword was only released for the Wii, and so they probably didn't want to restrict themselves to a 4:3-safe framing.

A game framed for 4:3 can have the FoV expanded too 16:9 without risk of cutting off important stuff, but a game framed for 16:9 can't have the FoV reduced to 4:3 without risk. This may also be why some games letterbox in-engine cutscenes: it lets them design for 16:9 but still support 4:3 when it doesn't matter.

[Ikaruga11]

Because by the time those games were released, 16:9 televisions were the norm

True, but there were games released many years before 16:9 TVs became the norm that forced letterboxing in 4:3 mode, such as Beyond Good & Evil (December 11th, 2003) and Resident Evil 4 (January 11th, 2005). 16:9 TVs didn't become the norm until 2009.

and "anamorphic 16:9" actually just means "slightly higher resolution 4:3".

Actually, anamorphic 16:9 uses the same resolution as 4:3. That's why it's called anamorphic widescreen. It's not true widecreen. You are aren't gaining any vertical resolution. For example, GameCube and Wii games that support widescreen are still running in 640x480, a 4:3 resolution. The pixels are stretched to fill a wider area. That's why 4:3 is sharper than anamorphic 16:9. Higher pixel density.

IIRC, EDTVs were never common,

Consumer ED CRT televisions do not exist. Although there are Consumer ED Plasmas and LCD televisions that were released in their infancy.

so TVs essentially jumped from 480i to 1080i

Yes, exactly. 240p/480i has an HSync of 15.7kHz, while 480p/960i has an HSync of 31.5kHz. Since 540p/1080i used a slightly higher HSync of 33.7kHz, it was a no-brainer for companies to opt for the higher resolution.

and IIRC those 1080i CRT televisions would render 480p by upscaling it to 540p.

HD CRTs render 480p signals in 480p. There is no upscaling.

So realistically, Wii games don't make much sense on a CRT, and should be played on a modern HDTV, at which point the real 16:9 mode is the better solution.

The GameCube and Wii were primarily designed around 4:3 CRTs, although many Wii games supported widescreen for the HD CRTs and early Plasmas and LCDs on the market at the time. The GameCube and Wii both use analog signals (Composite, S-Video, RGB, Component) with analog resolutions (640x480i/p and the rare 320x240) and 99% of the games having proper 4:3 aspect ratios.

[lechu]

Semi off topic here, but does anyone have good setting for the Wii on the Framemeister? I've just been using FBX's Gamecube profiles.

[Ikaruga11]

It's the same as TV/film: if you support a 4:3 view, then your whole game must be designed around having a 4:3-safe framing. This is mostly relevant in cutscenes where the player doesn't control the camera angle.

Twilight Princess was a GameCube game, and the GameCube was primarily 4:3, so they needed the game to be 4:3-safe. Skyward Sword was only released for the Wii, and so they probably didn't want to restrict themselves to a 4:3-safe framing.

A game framed for 4:3 can have the FoV expanded too 16:9 without risk of cutting off important stuff, but a game framed for 16:9 can't have the FoV reduced to 4:3 without risk. This may also be why some games letterbox in-engine cutscenes: it lets them design for 16:9 but still support 4:3 when it doesn't matter.

Tons of GameCube and Wii games like Mario Kart Wii that output a standard 4:3 display and support widescreen not only expand the FoV and retain proper proportions in 16x9, but also move around important things like the HUD.

[MrMFretwell]

Thanks for the feedback on the aspect ratio, I think I'll stick to 4:3 for most of the time, unless I run into a game like the ones mentioned which suit 16:9, any possible solutions to my other issue I mentioned in the post?

[MrMFretwell]

I've done some further testing on the original issue and have found that this only occurs when connected to the Framemeister, not directly to the TV, this should rule out the TV, Wii itself and the cable I'm using. I'm thinking its possibly be something to do with the D-Terminal cable that shipped with the Framemeister or possibly the HDMI splitter I have to send one picture to the TV, and the other to my capture card. Would I be on the right lines here?

[Shuco13]

If you use low quality HDMI cables and have got extended cable length (which is even worse if you use another device in the chain) you might experience picture drop outs with any device. Try using another/shorter cable (depending on the current length) and swapping the splitter (again longer connections need a powered splitter or even a signal extender). Hope that helps.

[MrMFretwell]

If you use low quality HDMI cables and have got extended cable length (which is even worse if you use another device in the chain) you might experience picture drop outs with any device. Try using another/shorter cable (depending on the current length) and swapping the splitter (again longer connections need a powered splitter or even a signal extender). Hope that helps.

Tried it without the HDMI Splitter and the same thing occurs, the cable length is fairly short, but it does pass-through an audio breakout. This only occurs with the Wii though and not other consoles, so I assume my cables are at least decent quality. Beginning to wonder if searching for a new better quality RGB SCART is the better way to go.

[Soxyboy26]

I have also found similar issues with my Framemeister through the d terminal input. With my ps2 and hori d terminal cable, I have a very glitchy and unstable image. I bought a cheap d terminal to component lead to use with component ps2 lead and this doesn't improve things. What is strange is that it is only unstable with 15khz display modes, anything in 480p is rock solid. Framemeister is all ok with RGB and hdmi input, I've no idea what is going on but it sounds similar to the issue above.