How are Sharp X-flat CRTs?

[Brad251]

I noticed of few of these on Craigslist. One has the model number 27F543. Any major issues with them. Any red push in the picture? How do they compare to CRTs from the other major brands?

[evil_ash_xero]

A batch of years ago, I bought two of them, new, off of Ebay.

Right off the bat, the component input cannot take any kind of friction. You might want to hook a switch up to it, once, and forget about it. I mean, sometimes the first time you take the cords out, the inputs will pop out. I had this happen on both TVs.

One started making a whistling noise, that drove me bonkers. The other one, after just a few years, had the picture lean way too hard on red. I still have it, sitting in the basement, wondering if anyone can fix that. I've been in the service menu, and everything, and have turned down red to zilch, and it just won't fix it.

So, I don't recommend them. I pretty much had both of them set aside, after owning them for like 3 years or something.

They do have a nice picture, while they work, though.

[Brad251]

Good to know.

[Taiyaki]

Are those Shadow Mask tubes? Usually if the picture leans too hard red it's cause the green and blue guns are getting weaker in shadow masks. Most often picture gets very redish or very greenish I think.

[evil_ash_xero]

Are those Shadow Mask tubes? Usually if the picture leans too hard red it's cause the green and blue guns are getting weaker in shadow masks. Most often picture gets very redish or very greenish I think.

Is that hard to fix?

[mvsfan]

sounds like a tv to stay away from. just from hearing that the inputs can easily break off. must mean that the pcb is cheap or the solder is no good.


I like sony and JVC. I own both TVS and am happy with them. ......and havent broken any inputs yet.

[mikejmoffitt]

sounds like a tv to stay away from. just from hearing that the inputs can easily break off. must mean that the pcb is cheap or the solder is no good.


I like sony and JVC. I own both TVS and am happy with them. ......and havent broken any inputs yet.

They aren't breaking off, but the cables slide off easier than they should.

[Brad251]

Evil_ash_zero, do you think it is possible your Sharp TVs got damaged in shipping because you bought them off of Ebay?

[evil_ash_xero]

Evil_ash_zero, do you think it is possible your Sharp TVs got damaged in shipping because you bought them off of Ebay?

One box had some damage, but none was on the TV. The other one's box wasn't damaged at all.

I don't think so, but you never know.

It's best to have them shipped via freight, as I have learned.

[Taiyaki]

Is there any given time where the picture does not lean heavily towards red? As in sometimes pictures looks organic and normal again? If that happens could be damage to one of the boards, perhaps from shipping. If the picture is always leaning heavily red and you can confirm this is a shadow mask then it's most likely age related and you may or may not be able to give it a temporarily fix it through service menu color adjustments.


I've seen both cases (sets leaning heavily red and leaning heavily green), I think green is even more objectionable than leaning red, but this problem is just another reason why I prefer Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba's aperture grille based sets rather than shadow masks. Aperture grille sets with a lot of age start showing noticeable decreased edge and corner focus (with crt's out of the box they're never 100% but on a very aged set you will notice text becoming incredibly soft other than in the center), it's also a real problem but one that is easier to live with imo if ever encountered than having a phosphor gun or two dying and giving a problematic picture leaning towards one color spectrum.

[Brad251]

but this problem is just another reason why I prefer Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba's aperture grille based sets rather than shadow masks

I thought Panasonic and Toshiba used shadow mask screens?

[evil_ash_xero]

Is there any given time where the picture does not lean heavily towards red? As in sometimes pictures looks organic and normal again? If that happens could be damage to one of the boards, perhaps from shipping. If the picture is always leaning heavily red and you can confirm this is a shadow mask then it's most likely age related and you may or may not be able to give it a temporarily fix it through service menu color adjustments.


I've seen both cases (sets leaning heavily red and leaning heavily green), I think green is even more objectionable than leaning red, but this problem is just another reason why I prefer Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba's aperture grille based sets rather than shadow masks. Aperture grille sets with a lot of age start showing noticeable decreased edge and corner focus (with crt's out of the box they're never 100% but on a very aged set you will notice text becoming incredibly soft other than in the center), it's also a real problem but one that is easier to live with imo if ever encountered than having a phosphor gun or two dying and giving a problematic picture leaning towards one color spectrum.

It's always leaning red. As for age, or whatever...it was only in use for like 2 years or something. So, that's why I said these TVs ain't so great.

[Taiyaki]

but this problem is just another reason why I prefer Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba's aperture grille based sets rather than shadow masks

I thought Panasonic and Toshiba used shadow mask screens?

Sure. I actually think most of all the flat screens are aperture grilles (especially if they are vertically flat). From what I recall Panasonic also started using the technology at least by the early 2000's. I had a great Panasonic set (although colors weren't perfect it delivered a great picture from a geometry/convergence/focus perspective) that was an aperture grille set and was my main set for years.

Toshiba I'm not quite as sure. I had a smaller 14 inch set that I believe was an aperture grille but I no longer have it. I read a lot of reviews of the earlier models that appear to be comparable to Trinitron sets but I wasn't happy enough with the brand to explore it further.

It's always leaning red. As for age, or whatever...it was only in use for like 2 years or something. So, that's why I said these TVs ain't so great.

Were you the original owner? It only was in use 2 years since it's factory boxing you mean? I doubt the tube would wear that fast. Should take a decade of use at the least I would think for the picture to degrade like that...

[MKL]

Panasonic and Toshiba only ever used shadow masks. Being everyday at a recycling center I've destroyed lots of true flat Panasonics and they're all shadow masks. In the last years they changed the material from iron to invar. If you can examine a bare tube along the seal line where the glass is clear you can spot the four points where the shadow mask is attached.

[Brad251]

Panasonic and Toshiba only ever used shadow masks. Being everyday at a recycling center I've destroyed lots of true flat Panasonics and they're all shadow masks. In the last years they changed the material from iron to invar. If you can examine a bare tube along the seal line where the glass is clear you can spot the four points where the shadow mask is attached.

I thought this was the case. I have also seen close up pics of the flat screen Panasonic CRTs where people were playing 8/16 bit games on them and that distinct shadow mask look was quite apparent.

[Taiyaki]

Panasonic and Toshiba only ever used shadow masks. Being everyday at a recycling center I've destroyed lots of true flat Panasonics and they're all shadow masks. In the last years they changed the material from iron to invar. If you can examine a bare tube along the seal line where the glass is clear you can spot the four points where the shadow mask is attached.

Wow you must be quite experienced with crt's then. However on this point you are mistaken. Just doing a quick google reveals Panasonic had models using aperture grille. Here are a few examples (and they're just the first three I clicked on):


http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-ct-hl42/specs/
http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic- ... -tv/specs/
http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic- ... -tv/specs/


I don't recall the model of the Panasonic Tau I had but it was also an aperture grille tube. I had bought it while in Europe (it had the scart connection and all) but I'm quite sure I've seen some in the US as well. These are great competitors to Trinitrons imo. Colors were not quite as accurate but geometry/sharpness/convergence were incredible!


On the other hand you appear to be right about Toshiba. Looking up the model I had it's listed there as an Invar Shadow Mask. So these are those hybrid flat screens with shadow masks. Good to know!

[MKL]

Panasonic and Toshiba are both tube and receiver manufacturers although they don't necessarily use their own tubes in their receivers. I was talking about tubes not TVs and I'm in Europe so I can only speak for what is marketed here and always by first hand knowledge, not questionable online links. European Panasonic tubes are all made by Nokia in Germany and are all shadow mask (ELO and ELR family for true flat types). Sometimes Matsushita or Philips tubes are used (ERF true flat family) and these are also shadow mask. Toshiba true flat tubes (often used by Grundig) are all shadow mask. Thomson and Samsung also only made shadow masks tubes and with these manufacturers we've basically covered the whole market of large screen tubes in Europe. Panasonic tubes found in US TVs are likely made by Matsushita but I doubt that they are aperture grill. Until I'm shown direct evidence I remain very sceptical.

[evil_ash_xero]

but this problem is just another reason why I prefer Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba's aperture grille based sets rather than shadow masks

I thought Panasonic and Toshiba used shadow mask screens?

Sure. I actually think most of all the flat screens are aperture grilles (especially if they are vertically flat). From what I recall Panasonic also started using the technology at least by the early 2000's. I had a great Panasonic set (although colors weren't perfect it delivered a great picture from a geometry/convergence/focus perspective) that was an aperture grille set and was my main set for years.

Toshiba I'm not quite as sure. I had a smaller 14 inch set that I believe was an aperture grille but I no longer have it. I read a lot of reviews of the earlier models that appear to be comparable to Trinitron sets but I wasn't happy enough with the brand to explore it further.

It's always leaning red. As for age, or whatever...it was only in use for like 2 years or something. So, that's why I said these TVs ain't so great.

Were you the original owner? It only was in use 2 years since it's factory boxing you mean? I doubt the tube would wear that fast. Should take a decade of use at the least I would think for the picture to degrade like that...

I was the original owner. The TVs were new, and sealed in the box.

[Taiyaki]

Panasonic and Toshiba are both tube and receiver manufacturers although they don't necessarily use their own tubes in their receivers. I was talking about tubes not TVs and I'm in Europe so I can only speak for what is marketed here and always by first hand knowledge, not questionable online links. European Panasonic tubes are all made by Nokia in Germany and are all shadow mask (ELO and ELR family for true flat types). Sometimes Matsushita or Philips tubes are used (ERF true flat family) and these are also shadow mask. Toshiba true flat tubes (often used by Grundig) are all shadow mask. Thomson and Samsung also only made shadow masks tubes and with these manufacturers we've basically covered the whole market of large screen tubes in Europe. Panasonic tubes found in US TVs are likely made by Matsushita but I doubt that they are aperture grill. Until I'm shown direct evidence I remain very sceptical.

CNET is hardly a questionable site. In the US they're one of the biggest sites for electronic reviews and have been for decades.


That same site shows the Toshibas as invar shadow masks which is why I edited the message to say you were right about that.


The aperture grille Panasonic set I had, I had bought in France around 2002 or 2003 and ran it off a power converter. I wish I could find some photos of the tv or at least find what model it was to show you.

[MKL]

The aperture grille Panasonic set I had, I had bought in France around 2002 or 2003 and ran it off a power converter. I wish I could find some photos of the tv or at least find what model it was to show you.

What size was that? 29"?

[Brad251]

MKL may not actually be wrong about Panasonic flat screen CRTs in the U.S. using shadow mask technology. There may be some confusion on the CNET website about the actually technology these Panasonic TAU CRTs used. There is conflicting information on different websites regarding these TAU flat screen CRTs. For example, the Panasonic CT-36HL42 is listed on the CNET website (http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-ct-hl42/specs/) as having an aperture grille but if you go to the Crutchfield website, http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Oy9L1rzV6g ... 6HL42.html, they list the TV as having a "fine pitch aperture tube" with an "Invar Mask". Crutchfield is a high end electronics retailer that has been around for a long time.

For the CT-27SF37, CNET lists the set as having an aperture grille (http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic- ... -tv/specs/) and Amazon lists the set as having an invar mask (https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-CT-27S ... roduct_top).

For other TAU flat screen CRT sets such as the CT-27SX11, CT-27SX12, Crutchfield also lists these sets as having a fine pitch aperture tube with an invar mask.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hibUibt67g ... 7SX11.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vWeaLTKdAn ... 7SX12.html
Amazon also lists the CT-27SX12 as having an invar mask.
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-CT-27S ... roduct_top

This may be where the confusion lies. These Panasonic sets using a fine pitch aperture tube may have confused people into thinking that the sets were using an aperture grille when they are actually using an invar mask.

[Taiyaki]

Nice find! So yes there definitely are conflicting reports... How can it be an aperture tube and an invar shadow mask at the same time? Doesn't make much sense...


I feel like looking at some of the sets of Craigslist to see for myself what the ones in the US were made of. :/


I also had a friend with a very large size flat Tau we'd play on a lot too, and it was also comparable to a Trinitron imo. I mean shadow masks have a distinctive look. Unless invar's appear more like aperture grilles I just don't see that set having been a shadow mask either.


MLK> That particular set I had was a small set, 14 inch. It delivered the best picture I had seen for small sets at the time and was of great use to me for my single player gaming sessions for years.

[Brad251]

Maybe some Panasonic TAU CRTs did use an aperture grille. However, I was looking at the service manual for the Panasonic CT-27SX12 and on page 7, the picture tube supplier is listed as Samsung. Here is the link to the service manual, http://elektrotanya.com/panasonic_ct-24 ... nload.html. If what MKL said is correct about Samsung only having ever produced shadow mask tubes then this is evidence that at least one Panasonic TAU flat screen CRT TV sold in the U.S. used a shadow mask.

On a similar note, I watched a video where someone was explaining the differences between aperture grille and shadow mask tubes and they said that aperture grille tubes have much longer neck compared to a shadow mask tube. He also had an aperture grille and shadow mask tube right next to each other where he showed the difference. Was this guy correct?

[MKL]

Maybe some Panasonic TAU CRTs did use an aperture grille. I was looking at the service manual for the Panasonic CT-27SX12 and on page 7, the picture tube supplier is listed as Samsung. Here is the link to the service manual, http://elektrotanya.com/panasonic_ct-24 ... nload.html. If what MKL said is correct about Samsung only having ever produced shadow mask tubes then this is evidence that at least one Panasonic TAU flat screen CRT TV sold in the U.S. used a shadow mask.

The tube listed for 29" (27V) are Samsung A68QCP893X and Matsushita M68LUQ085X. The former is a very common true flat 29" tube found in many different TVs even in Europe. I know it very well and even have the datasheet. Needless to say it has a shadow mask:



I'm sure the Matsushita tube is shadow mask also.

On a similar note, I watched a video where someone was explaining the differences between aperture grille and shadow mask tubes and they said that aperture grille tubes have much longer neck compared to a shadow mask tube. He also had an aperture grille and shadow mask tube right next to each other where he showed the difference. Was this guy correct?

Aperture grill means Sony to me and the length of a tube depends primarily on the deflection angle (the higher the shorter). The typical deflection angle of a 25-29" tube is 110° (like the Samsung tube above) whereas Sony often used different angles like 104° which may result in a slightly longer tube.