Good upscaler/line doubler/SLG for Pioneer PDP-V402

[PascalP]

I'm looking for advice on a good upscaler/line doubler/SLG to use in combination with my Pioneer PDP-V402.

I have multiple consoles connected via a scart switch to the RGB input:
- 240p content - OK, but could use scanlines in some cases I think
- 480i content - Screen flicker, want this to either convert to 480p or 240p
- 480p content - OK with Dreamcast via VGA

First I was looking at a simple SLG like the SLG Scart, but as this only adds 120 lines it would not be the best solution.
What do you think of the SLG-in-a-box?
I've seen some good reviews of this, but all are on a Full HD LCD TV, how would this unit work on my Pioneer if it upscales all 240p/480i content via Scart input to 480p VGA output?

Or would you recommend something else like the Extron's I read a lot about?

[Thamiel]

Xrgb2 would work well if you can find one. Simple processor, solid image. That or the new OSSC.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

[PascalP]

I found the SLG-in-a-box review on Fudoh's website and I think there are better options out there, like the XRGB's indead or Extron's with an additional SLG3000 for example.
The OSSC looks interesting as well!

I used to own a XRGB mini, but sold this recently, as I didn't like the lag it added when used with my LCD TV (I didn't own the Pioneer at that time)

Any more advice or someone with hands-on experience?

[Fudoh]

Due to the visible pixel structure of the PDP I wouldn't recommend using scanlines on it. It looks rather distracting and and in the long run it will give you uneven wear on the plasma cells.

The older XRGB units (like the 2, 2plus or 3) apply the same kind of deinterlacing to 480i material the Pioneer does on it's own, so they won't help you with the flickering. If you want a more solid picture from 480i material you need a "better" deinterlacer, but that's not possible without lag (usually more lag than your Framemeister added).

The OSSC (plus a HDMI to VGA converter) can give you scanlines, but - again - it does the same kind of single-field processing on 480i material as your PDP or the XRGBs.

The Extron RGB interfaces can be used to change 480i to 240p, but changing the line offset. Usually this only works on CRTs, but I guess nobody tried it on a PDP, so it might be worth a try. The results aren't great though (on a CRT) and only few games are suited for this kind of "cheap" conversion.

To get a proper 240p from all 480i sources you need a linedoubler (which might add lag) along with a scan converter l ike the Genius II or Ultracade UVC.

All in all I would recommend to stick with what you got. The whole point of the PDP is that you get VERY acceptable results on all kinds of sources WITHOUT the need for further processing.

[PascalP]

As you have tested a lot of these different units you would know the results they give and if they do not improve the built in deinterlacer (480i) from the Pioneer they are not worth buying.
Lag is something I want to avoid at any costs, this also was the reason I sold the XRGB mini and purchased the Pioneer (I still own some PVM units, but like the Pioneer for it's size as I'm sitting about 4 meters from the screen in my game room).

I will keep my eyes open if I see a Extron RGB unit for sale for a reasonable price, might be fun to tinker with.

But overall the best setup would be as my current situation?
240p and 480i sources -> RGB cables -> Scart switch -> Scart to BNC -> Pioneer
480p (Dreamcast) -> Hanzo box -> VGA to Pioneer

[Fudoh]

I'm sitting about 4 meters from the screen in my game room

at this distance scanlines would hardly do anything but darken the image, don't you think ?

[PascalP]

I'm sitting about 4 meters from the screen in my game room

at this distance scanlines would hardly do anything but darken the image, don't you think ?

I don't know how a scanline generator usually should work, but when I add scanlines with my Hanzo box the picture gets very dark, also on my LCD, regardless if I set odd/even scanlines.
If I would add a SLG3000 for example, would this also make the complete image dark? Or would it just 'overlay' scanlines to the original image?

Here is an example of how SF3 looks with and without scanlines via the Hanzo:
(Not very good visible in the picture, but in real life the Hanzo outputs a very dark image with scanlines ON, much darker than it looks in the pictures)

Scanlines OFF:


Scanlines ON:


Scanlines OFF:


Scanlines ON:

[Fudoh]

would this also make the complete image dark?

you certainly need to compensate by raising the image's white level or the overal light output of the display. After all you're darkening half of all on-screen pixels - so what do you expect ?

Back in the days of SD/ED CRT projectors linedoublers were used to maximize the light output from SD sources. Basically the same thing you're seeing - just the other way around.

[Xyga]

Is it a camera effect or what; looks like 2 lines darkened, 1 line clear ?

[Fudoh]

there are just 2 lines per source pixel on the PDP. The effect you're seeing is caused by the existing gaps between the lines even before you're applying scanlines. Hence my initial statement that I wouldn't try to use scanlines on a 480p plasma screen.

[PascalP]

would this also make the complete image dark?

you certainly need to compensate by raising the image's white level or the overal light output of the display. After all you're darkening half of all on-screen pixels - so what do you expect ?

Back in the days of SD/ED CRT projectors linedoublers were used to maximize the light output from SD sources. Basically the same thing you're seeing - just the other way around.

Yeah, makes sense when you put it like this, never looked at it like that.
Same would go for my LCD when I connect the Hanzo and turn on scanlines.

So I guess the XRGB mini I used to own does crank up the brightness internally or some similar process to compensate when scanlines are turned on.

Looking back with all you said and my experiences from the past I stick with the Pioneer as it is without additional devices.
I'm also choose my PVM-2730QM over my XRGB mini and LCD as I didn't like the lag and the artificial look of it, and I don't want to end up with this same fake/artificial look on my Pioneer plasma.

Thanks for your tips and advice guys

[Fudoh]

Yeah, makes sense when you put it like this, never looked at it like that.
Same would go for my LCD when I connect the Hanzo and turn on scanlines.

with the difference that LCDs have lots of light reserves, while your plasma likely won't.

So I guess the XRGB mini I used to own does crank up the brightness internally or some similar process to compensate when scanlines are turned on.

on the Mini (in 720p) only 1 in every 3 lines is darkened, so the drop in overall brightness isn't as strong.