Who knows about CRTs, PVMs, and BVMs?

[Dragon89o]

So I have a quite a bit of questions. I'v been doing tons of research about CRTs, BVMs, and PVMs off and on for a few months but there is so much information it can be a bit overwhelming. So I have several questions about different TVs and Monitors and hopefully you guys can answer them.

I am currently looking for a CRT to use for now until I can at a later date find the BVM/PVMs that I want.
I currently have a Panasonic CT-27SX12 I believe. It orginally retailed for 429.99 and was released around 2002.
I have looked up some reviews from people who were orginally considering the Panasonic vs the Sony Wega line. I saw a lot of people comment saying the Panasonic looked like it had better picture quality among other things. The reason I bring that up is because it seems like the majority of retro gamers suggest the Sony FD Trinitron Wega KD-34XBR960.
So what I want to know is how good is my current Panasonic CRT and how does it compare? Also what are other brands you would suggest? I pretty much want to go top of the line CRT until I can find that
I know when it comes to tech sometimes the most bought product or brand is not always the best and sometimes the better product doesn't get advertised as much or bought as much. I know Sony kind of dominated that market but what are other options and how do they compare?
PVM/BVM so I want to get to the nitty-gritty in specs.

Some other brands I saw mentioned were
Mitsubishi specifcially the Megaview series
Gateway specifically Destination
Hibachi

I do want to know a lot more about the Mitsubishi Megaview series if anyone knows about them.

Now questions about PVMs and BVMs
I also ran acrosss a brand called Ikegami. Not sure if this was their best model but I looked into their TM20-80RH and was trying to compare to Sony's BVMs.
Who knows about Ikegami PVMs and how they compare? I saw some comments that the Ikegami had some good benifits over the Sony BVM but also had some cons but it was of equivalent quality.

Hopefully my questions were clear. Making this thread at like 6am in the morning.

[atheistgod1999]

You should get an early 2000's Toshiba. I have a BVM-20F1U but I'm not using it anymore, instead I'm using a Toshiba 27A43 manufactured in April 2003 which is better at decoding luma-chroma signals than the BVM. MyLifeInGaming actually uses early 2000's Toshiba CRTs whenever they show a CRT.

[gray117]

The short:
It's good to nerd out - but I'd just pick up whatever you can in your area (otherwise shipping is likely to be more costly than the actual device) and check what state it's in, because all this shit is old now.


The long:
After all, for as brilliant as they theoretically be you might find you just prefer a certain look/feel.

I'd be perfectly willing to believe your panasonic had a better picture than a lot (but not all) late sony consumer Wegas which basically sacrificed top end quality for cost/flat screen... but it's nothing I'd get too worked up about as long as yours in good condition and you can adjust what you want?

Generally people recommend sony just because you can more or less guarantee you can get to a service menu no matter the model and general build/component quality was at least good (to excellent in the case of the pvm/bvm series). Anything intended to be a broadcast monitor JVC/Mitsubishi/NEC/Ikegama is probably fine in principle... just need to worry about condition it is in and check what the inputs are (some - particularly pvms - had optional input expansion boards - rgb was not always an option).

I'd believe the top of a line consumer KD-34XBR960 is a good screen. But I bet it weighs a fking ton, is massive and is hard to find. Aside from which most games I want a crt for I'll be playing 4:3 and prefer a screen edge... it's probably a fine recommendation in principle but not very practical in reality. Unless you have one on craigslist or whatever right now? ... 90kg/200lbs according to manual.

Personally I just prefer to recommend 29 inch trinitrons because they're easy to find with rgb in europe and 29 inch is just the right size for those wanting to replicate arcade feel if not concerned with trinitron pixel feeling a little different to shadow mask displays (some people a this detail orientated - are you?). 25 inch are perfect because you can move very easily, but would not go smaller myself. But plenty of folks enjoy 20" pvms - especially if they're after that console nostalgia feel. Used to love my 2950Q pvm for non euro rgb recommendation... but probably hard to find these days though...

If you are considering an expensive shipping option - find out what specific model you're looking at and then research it/ask here about it.

[Ikaruga11]

Your Panasonic CT-27SX12 is a 4:3 CRT that outputs a resolution of 240p and 480i (Standard Definition), making it a perfect choice for retro consoles such as the Nintendo 64. It even has 2 S-Video inputs and 1 Component input, which is great.

The Sony KD-34XBR960 is a 16:9 Super Fine Pitch CRT that outputs a resolution of 480p (Enhanced Defintion) and 1080i (High Definition). 240p is upscaled to 480p and 480i is either line-doubled to 960i or de-interlaced to 480p. As a result, its not ideal for anything but game systems which can output 480p, such as the Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo Wii, Sony PlayStation 2 and the Sega Dreamcast. It has 3 S-Video inputs, 2 Component inputs and even an HDMI input. It's widely accepted to be the best consumer 16:9 HD CRT ever made. I have one in excellent condition that has been THX/ISF calibrated and it looks absolutely amazing.

[kamiboy]

There is no the best, only the best for you. You'll know this if you ever attain CRT enlightenment.

[tacoguy64]

You should be fine with your consumer set for now but if you ever feel the need to upgrade then BVM/PVM line is the way to go. The other pro monitors are nice as well and you should not pass any of them if you could get them in good condition and at a good price. So concentrate on what you want but also be on the look out for something else that might come along. You wouldn't want to pass on a nice NEC X29 monitor because you are looking for a Mitsubishi 29' inch diamond monitor. Same with any of the other pro monitors. Also don't overlook pc crt monitors either if you come across them. Most of them aren't multi sync, but when paired with a device like the OSSC or an XRGB scaler, the results are usually good.

[Dragon89o]

Your Panasonic CT-27SX12 is a 4:3 CRT that outputs a resolution of 240p and 480i (Standard Definition), making it a perfect choice for retro consoles such as the Nintendo 64. It even has 2 S-Video inputs and 1 Component input, which is great.

The Sony KD-34XBR960 is a 16:9 Super Fine Pitch CRT that outputs a resolution of 480p (Enhanced Defintion) and 1080i (High Definition). 240p is upscaled to 480p and 480i is either line-doubled to 960i or de-interlaced to 480p. As a result, its not ideal for anything but game systems which can output 480p, such as the Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo Wii, Sony PlayStation 2 and the Sega Dreamcast. It has 3 S-Video inputs, 2 Component inputs and even an HDMI input. It's widely accepted to be the best consumer 16:9 HD CRT ever made. I have one in excellent condition that has been THX/ISF calibrated and it looks absolutely amazing.

This response was particularly helpful. I didn't pull my TV out of my shelf nor did I look up the manual online yet. So the information you gave me on my Panasonic is helpful. Is there any downside to my TV not being able of doing 480p?

Also the Sony KD-34XBR960 the upscaling isn't exactly a bad thing and it is a larger monitor which would allow me to sit at a further distance while playing. It's just the fact it is a 16:9 so I would have black bars on the side instead of my bezels being the end of the image. I too prefer bezels being at the end but I wouldn't mind too much if for some reason the TV was better.

So which of the two would be better for both worlds? NES-PS2 era? Or do they both have their own pros and cons?

Also what do you know about the Mitsubishi Megaview 37 inch? Also are there similar models to the Megaview 37 but possibly different size with same or similar specs in that series?
I think I read it can do RGB through it's VGA? I could of wrong of maybe I was looking at an over seas model I don't really know. Still learning a lot about the topic and hopefully I don't say anything silly hah.

As for what other people commented on. I am pretty adamant on getting the best quality CRT. I won't only be looking for the CRT I will also be looking for a BVM but I could technically put both to use. Being that the CRT is larger and the BVM would be smaller. Weather it is different rooms or what not. So I'd like the find the best quality CRT either way. Plus it holds me over because I'll most likely find the CRT prior to finding the BVM that I would want.

[Ed Oscuro]

A native 480i set should be ideal for most older consoles, though with YPbPr component input you would need a RGBs to YPbPr transcoder to get the most out of RGB consoles (SNES, Genesis, etc.)

480p is useful for the Xbox, GameCube, and many PS2 titles which can output this higher resolution (it's the same resolution across, but without skipping alternate lines down the screen, so it's showing double the information of 480i). However all these consoles are typically fine at 480i; you just get the "sawtooth" interlace effect from the dropped lines, which mainly shows up when things move horizontally onscreen (i.e., panning the camera) but it usually isn't that dramatic an effect. It's relatively hard to find displays that do 480p well so it probably isn't worth the bother unless you're an absolutely fanatic player of consoles from that era, or if you get headaches from interlace effects.

For consumer TVs it's hard to find a set that supports both 480i and 480p well. I understand that this is generally limited to the early between-generation EDTV sets. Newer CRTs do...things...in order to cheaply support both 480i and higher resolutions, which you may not like.

Some professional monitors truly support both 480i and 480p (and other resolutions), like newer Sony BVMs and the PVM-20L5. The best monitors are true multisyncs, which can sync to almost anything within a stated range, possibly including weird arcade resolutions. (Of course there's also arcade monitors for this, but most of them don't seem so good in terms of quality or reliability).

Outside of Sony, it's basically "take whatever you can find." If you have some interest in 480p, there are a fair number of 20" monitors which aren't so incredibly expensive, plus presentation monitors from Mitsubishi and NEC (and others). Ikegami's TM20-80RH is okay, though so is the TM20-90RH, the TM20-17RA, plus some higher resolution monitors as well. Here's a rough suggested checklist of items to consider:

- Did I find any information about this set online?
- Is the set I'm looking at in good shape and can I get it home safely? (I generally suggest only getting CRTs you can pick up, unless you have money to spend on having a CRT carefully shipped via freight or some other white glove service, not FedEx or UPS).
- Is RGB with external sync supplied (generally not worth buying a pro monitor if it doesn't have this; consumer TVs offer YPbPr component input)?
- What's its technology - aperture grille or shadow mask? Both can be good for different purposes, though aperture grille is better for sharpness and therefore more to my liking for 3D consoles. Shadow mask sets are lighter though.
- What are the resolution specs? There's two things to consider - the TV Line spec for sharpness (for a traditional 4:3 set, 600 TVL is good for 240p and 480i content, though you might want to push up to at least 800 TVL for 3D consoles), and then consider supported resolutions - 480p or higher if you're interested in newer systems, otherwise it doesn't matter and you can stick with 480i.

[Einzelherz]

Ed, have you ever come across TVL numbers for consumer sets?

[Ed Oscuro]

I thought I saw a post here recently where somebody gave some. I don't remember who or what exactly was said, though.

At a guess it could be as high as 600TVL, lower for older sets, maybe a bit higher for the best tubes. I don't have experience with the late high-end Sony sets so I couldn't guess about those. Of course if they don't handle 480i properly, the TVL spec is moot.

[tacoguy64]

Also what do you know about the Mitsubishi Megaview 37 inch? Also are there similar models to the Megaview 37 but possibly different size with same or similar specs in that series?
I think I read it can do RGB through it's VGA? I could of wrong of maybe I was looking at an over seas model I don't really know. Still learning a lot about the topic and hopefully I don't say anything silly hah.

As for what other people commented on. I am pretty adamant on getting the best quality CRT. I won't only be looking for the CRT I will also be looking for a BVM but I could technically put both to use. Being that the CRT is larger and the BVM would be smaller. Weather it is different rooms or what not. So I'd like the find the best quality CRT either way. Plus it holds me over because I'll most likely find the CRT prior to finding the BVM that I would want.

There are some users on here that have those mitsubishi presentation monitor and they look really nice. Maybe they will chime in but I can tell you that they use shadow mask technology, and are true multisyncs. Capable of doing up to 1024x764 resolution which is the ideal resolution for Xbox 360/PS3/Wii U. But they shine most when using them for 240p games. The picture quality isn't as good as a BVM but it's good enough, especially considering their size. The only real downsides to these monitors are their weight and age. My NEC 37' inch tv is comparable to the Mitsubishi and it's my most used monitor for gaming.

[mvsfan]

I have a 14" PVM, but i mostly use it as a test monitor on my bench. I dont really game on it because i find it too small. I also find the 20" too small.

I have a 32" KV32FS120 sony wega, and its good. The component converters give a really nice picture on these tvs and the colors are bright and pronounced.

I am however trying to get a 36" JVC tv with component inputs (certain models only) Because some of them are specd out at 800 TVL which is more in line with an upper model sony pvm.

the main advantage of TVs over a professional monitor is size. Its getting really difficult to find large pvm or megaviews, and most of them are much older than a comparable tv.

you could also add rgb to a tv provided it has the right jungle ic. theres an entire thread here dedicated to that.

[FinalBaton]

The only real downsides to these monitors are their weight and age.

I think it's not that old for a CRT. My NEC is a 1999 model. What year is yours?

[mvsfan]

My Pvm is a 2004. wega 2003.

[Dragon89o]

I have a 32" KV32FS120 sony wega, and its good. The component converters give a really nice picture on these tvs and the colors are bright and pronounced.

I am however trying to get a 36" JVC tv with component inputs (certain models only) Because some of them are specd out at 800 TVL which is more in line with an upper model sony pvm.

you could also add rgb to a tv provided it has the right jungle ic. theres an entire thread here dedicated to that.

Well I know you don't have the JVC as of yet but do you know how it compares to your Sony Wega? Give me all the details on why you exactly want to replace it with the JVC. How many TVL does the Sony Wega have?

Also mind linking me to that thread on adding rgb to a tv if it already has the right jungle ic? Not exactly fimilar with the term jungle ic though. I'v been looking into crt, bvms, and pvms a lot and I haven't run across a thread like that yet. Kinda lazy to look the thread up myself. I'm so extremely busy even outside of work. Barley have time to respond to these threads as much as I would like.

Also is still no one familiar with the Mitsubishi Megaview line? I want to know how that compares to the Sony Wega line. It seems like the megaview line is some what of the ideal crt but harder to find just would like to know why.

I find the process of learning about the tvs fun. Then searching for it then finding it and also knowing I got the best. So I like all the fine details.

[FinalBaton]

Also is still no one familiar with the Mitsubishi Megaview line? I want to know how that compares to the Sony Wega line. It seems like the megaview line is some what of the ideal crt but harder to find just would like to know why.

They're not in the same league as Sony Wegas

Mitsubishi Megaview are professional monitors (presentation/data monitors if we want to be more specific)

[Dragon89o]

Also is still no one familiar with the Mitsubishi Megaview line? I want to know how that compares to the Sony Wega line. It seems like the megaview line is some what of the ideal crt but harder to find just would like to know why.

They're not in the same league as Sony Wegas

Mitsubishi Megaview are professional monitors (presentation/data monitors if we want to be more specific)

You implying that the Sona Wega is better? Them not being in the same league could go either way. Which is in the better league and why?

[FinalBaton]

Mitsubishi Megaview is better. It's a professional monitor.

Sony Wega is a consumer model

[tacoguy64]

The only real downsides to these monitors are their weight and age.

I think it's not that old for a CRT. My NEC is a 1999 model. What year is yours?

I think 97 which is way older than any of my other crt monitors
Still it's chugging along quite nicely but might need some tune up.
Every once in a while you will hear a high pitch whistle going off for a bit. Sounds like a cap that might need replacing. Also I'm wondering if its possible to replace the fans with some quiet fans? Do other large crt monitors have to deal with that?

Mitsubishi Megaview is better. It's a professional monitor.

Sony Wega is a consumer model

From the pictures and videos i've seen online i would have to agree.

[mvsfan]

Tacoguy: I have 1 20" tv that whines. Its very annoying. ive heard that its normal for some tvs. Ive also heard that it bothers people under 40 more.

when im not using it I have to turn the power off at the power strip or it will drive me crazy after a while.

I dont know how many Tvl the wega is because they dont publish it. believe its just the same as any other consumer tv. What makes it better is the aperature grill technology. it supposedly gives a clearer picture, although ive seen some good shadow masks too.

with that being said, The JVC at 800 lines should be the better tv, but id have to find one to see. they come up on the local craigslist sometimes.

[Dragon89o]

you could also add rgb to a tv provided it has the right jungle ic. theres an entire thread here dedicated to that.

Mind linking the thread? Looks like an interesting topic. Do they say which tvs do and don't have the option and give tutorials?

Mitsubishi Megaview is better. It's a professional monitor.

Sony Wega is a consumer model

Besides just saying it is better does anyone know more details about the Mitsubishi Megaview line? Does anyone have one personally or know someone who does? They are still considered a CRT right and not a PVM? Thought Mitsubishi just made extremely high end consumer products when it comes to TVs.

[Xyga]

There is no the best, only the best for you. You'll know this if you ever attain CRT enlightenment.

This.

My personal preference goes to curved Trinitrons, consumer or PVMs. I find the BVM crts (those I have seen) too sharp with too large gaps, kind of surreal compared to the average home and arcades crts I've always known.

As it's been said there are indeed quite nice shadow mask models too, some people will argue some can feel more natural compared to the typically monitor-like colors and feel of the Trinitrons.

The 'professional' labels and TVL figures shouldn't make people blind to the rest, honestly although it's understandable that northern-Americans would aim for those first since RGB is such a rare thing over there, only looking at top-of-the-line mean you're missing like 98% of the crts, when there are still plenty to be found (although in good shape is becoming rare).

Of course I'm only talking about 240p~480i stuff here. Adding 480p to the requirements changes the rules.

[tacoguy64]

you could also add rgb to a tv provided it has the right jungle ic. theres an entire thread here dedicated to that.

Mind linking the thread? Looks like an interesting topic. Do they say which tvs do and don't have the option and give tutorials?

Mitsubishi Megaview is better. It's a professional monitor.

Sony Wega is a consumer model

Besides just saying it is better does anyone know more details about the Mitsubishi Megaview line? Does anyone have one personally or know someone who does? They are still considered a CRT right and not a PVM? Thought Mitsubishi just made extremely high end consumer products when it comes to TVs.

Sadly there is not a lot of documentation on any of these large presentation monitors. The only thing i have found is that b&h pamphlet online. I am pretty much going by my own experience with my own presentation monitors and some videos i've seen from youtube. From the images and videos i've seen of the Mitsubishi monitors, I can say they look very similar to the NEC presentation monitor that I own.

I have yet to see a sony consumer set in person, but there are plenty of pictures and videos online. The Fudoh ode to crt display thread shows off many of these monitors. I think there were also some stand alone threads on these sony consumer sets that show off some nice pictures. Even with all the crappy cell phone cameras, they should give you a good idea on how they look.

Also when we refer to PVM and BVM we are referring to Sony's professional brands. It's kinda confusing to call any other rgb monitors PVM/BVM. RGB CRT is what they are commonly referred to here, some use professional/broadcasting/production crt or in the case of the large Mitsubishis and NECs we use presentation displays.

Ultimately, finding the right crt comes down to many different questions and factors.

Tacoguy: I have 1 20" tv that whines. Its very annoying. ive heard that its normal for some tvs. Ive also heard that it bothers people under 40 more.

when im not using it I have to turn the power off at the power strip or it will drive me crazy after a while.

I dont know how many Tvl the wega is because they dont publish it. believe its just the same as any other consumer tv. What makes it better is the aperature grill technology. it supposedly gives a clearer picture, although ive seen some good shadow masks too.

with that being said, The JVC at 800 lines should be the better tv, but id have to find one to see. they come up on the local craigslist sometimes.

Mine only does it when it turns on sometimes. It comes up randomly and i can silence it by turning of the monitor or by waiting for it to stop. It is not to the point where it becomes impossible to play but in the time that i am playing it is very distracting. Even worse than the fans. I read something about this whine which I remember it being caused by an old capacitor and or a lower quality capacitor.

[FinalBaton]

They are still considered a CRT right and not a PVM? Thought Mitsubishi just made extremely high end consumer products when it comes to TVs.

The fact that you call all professional crt monitors "PVM" leads me to believe that you learned about them from "My Life In Gaming". These guys call all crt professional monitors "PVM", but this is an inacurate denomination : in reality "PVM" is just a model name used by Sony exclusively.
There are many companies who manufactured professional-grade CRTs : Ikegami, JVC, NEC, mitsubishi, etc.

Also : you seem to use the term "CRT" to describe consumer TVs; but CRT means "Tube television", so both consumer AND professional tubes are CRTs.

And no, I have never seen a Mitsubishi Megaview with my own eyes, but the consensus online seems to be that they are professional monitors, of the "display" type(sometimes called "data"). Supposedly they are pretty much on par with NEC's own display monitors (XM29, etc).

[Dragon89o]

The fact that you call all professional crt monitors "PVM" leads me to believe that you learned about them from "My Life In Gaming". These guys call all crt professional monitors "PVM", but this is an inacurate denomination : in reality "PVM" is just a model name used by Sony exclusively.
There are many companies who manufactured professional-grade CRTs : Ikegami, JVC, NEC, mitsubishi, etc.

Also : you seem to use the term "CRT" to describe consumer TVs; but CRT means "Tube television", so both consumer AND professional tubes are CRTs.

Well thanks for correcting me. I thought only BVM was branded by Sony and PVM was generic for all high end displays it's good to know that now. So you just call other professional monitors/crts just that? A professional CRT/monitor?

Also thanks for correcting me on CRT =3. Looked up what it stood for I thought it stood for Consumer something something xP.

[Ikaruga11]

When most people talk about CRTs, they're usually referring to consumer TVs and monitors. Not professional CRTs.

[FinalBaton]

Well thanks for correcting me. I thought only BVM was branded by Sony and PVM was generic for all high end displays it's good to know that now. So you just call other professional monitors/crts just that? A professional CRT/monitor?

Also thanks for correcting me on CRT =3. Looked up what it stood for I thought it stood for Consumer something something xP.

No sweat

[FinalBaton]

When most people talk about CRTs, they're usually referring to consumer TVs and monitors. Not professional CRTs.

I don't see that happening here

It seems that those people you talk about dont realise that professional tubes are also CRTs.

The term CRT should not be used to specifically target consumer models

[Dragon89o]

Hey, I'm looking at a Mitsubishi CS-40505. It's a 40' CRT. I'm trying to learn it's features but I'm having a bit of difficulty. Does anyone know more about this TV? How many scanlines does it have? How does it compare to other professional CRTs?

And what are all the desirable Mitsubishi models? What were the years the Megaview series was made and what is desirable about the Megaview series?

[tacoguy64]

I've seen that model a few times on craigslist and from what i can tell it only has composite and s-video inputs. I am not sure how nice the image is on that tv but that thing must weigh 300lbs! If i were to have a tv in that range i would make sure it has rgb or component at the very least. It might have good a good s-video and even composite quality pictures but they wont be good as rgb.

To tell you the truth finding a large size rgb crt can be pretty difficult. This is why many people recommend going with a consumer crt instead since they are relatively easier to find in your area and cheaper too. Though I think some of the newer models of consumer crt's struggle with 240p content. But they shine with 480p stuff. I've seen people use rgb to component transcoders on some sony wegas and it looked good. And like they've mentioned before, theres a thread around here that has people converting them to rgb. Haven't read through most the thread so I don't know how successful they've been but could be a nice alternate. But I wouldn't recommend this mod for anyone not experienced enough with working on crt's. In fact I would highly advise against it.

But if you're like me and want to get the best then you will want to go with an rgb monitor. Seems like you are more interested in finding a larger sized monitor that are multisync capable (can play NES all the way to PS2/Wii). That kinda narrows your options by a lot. Here's a brief list of some monitors to look out for

24' Sony BVM A24E1WU
32' Sony BVM D32E1WU

27' Panasonic DT-2730MS
27' Panasonic DT-2750MS
36' Panasonic CT-3696VY

29' NEC XM29 Plus
29' NEC XP29 Plus
37' NEC XM37 Plus
37' NEC XP37 Plus

29' Mitsubishi Megaview 29
29' Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 29
33' Mitsubishi Megaview 33
37' Mitsubishi Megaview Plus 37
37' Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 37
42' Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 42

There are a few more large rgb monitors out there but thats all i can remember right now.