Famicom: how do I use with a CRT?

[MintyTheCat]

Hello all,

I have just received (finally...) this AV modded famicom:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=56713

How do I use with my Phillips CM8833-II monitor though?

This is my first time to be using a famicom and I have literally no idea how to use it

Cheers,

Minty.

[Fudoh]

The Commodore monitors back in the day easily supported 60Hz, but no NTSC (which didn't matter when using RGB), so I would assume that your Philips behaves the same.

[MintyTheCat]

The Commodore monitors back in the day easily supported 60Hz, but no NTSC (which didn't matter when using RGB), so I would assume that your Philips behaves the same.

Yes, I have no problems with the PCE, MD, NeoGeo, SNES or Saturn but I am not getting anything from the famicom as yet.

The options on the famicom are:

Channel : 1 or 2
mode : game or TV

The CM8833-II has:

mode : analogue or TTL
Video : CVBS or RGB

I had read that the famicom requires some odd channel setting for when using on standard TVs but this is a monitor so I am really unsure what it requires.

The famicom itself has a cable that is for video and one for audio. This is then connected to a SCART plug that is male. I then usually just connect my consoles' video cables to the female connector that connects to the monitor.

Cheers.

[daskrabs]

If your Fami is AV modded, then set it to game, then attach the video lead to CVBS, the audio lead(s) to the audio input(s) and set the monitor to CVBS and analogue. Should be the same settings as for all of your consoles. If it doesn't work, then maybe you have a loose connection in the AV mod.

[MintyTheCat]

If your Fami is AV modded, then set it to game, then attach the video lead to CVBS, the audio lead(s) to the audio input(s) and set the monitor to CVBS and analogue. Should be the same settings as for all of your consoles. If it doesn't work, then maybe you have a loose connection in the AV mod.

Yes, I did that but I just get a black screen. I shall have to take a video to show what is going on.

[RaidenIII]

Have you got just a standard set to test the famicom on. Rule out that anything is loose.
As it will almost certainly display a picture on a modern tv....

[MintyTheCat]

Have you got just a standard set to test the famicom on. Rule out that anything is loose.
As it will almost certainly display a picture on a modern tv....

Yes, I have. I have also tried all the games that came with the machine too and nothing works.

[RaidenIII]

It has arrived faulty? Please update me problems via message so I can make a claim at the post office then.
I'll need to look into this though as I've not made a claim before...

you defo can use the MD adaptor I sent (as said in message) nothing blown...

I've had it for over a year with no issues....please update me if it isn't working.

[MintyTheCat]

It has arrived faulty? Please update me problems via message so I can make a claim at the post office then.
I'll need to look into this though as I've not made a claim before...

you defo can use the MD adaptor I sent (as said in message) nothing blown...

I've had it for over a year with no issues....please update me if it isn't working.

Yes, I have used the MD PSU supplied.

Al that I know right now is that the machine does not work and I have waited since the 5th of March to receive it.

[RaidenIII]

This again. I have said sorry several times for delay in posting. I'm trying to work with you. I've said sorry.
It was late posting, but..the postal service took around 8 days of that to deliver.
I'm trying to work with you. It was sent working..you can see its working in the pictures too.

[MintyTheCat]

This again. I have said sorry several times for delay in posting. I'm trying to work with you. I've said sorry.
It was late posting, but..the postal service took around 8 days of that to deliver.
I'm trying to work with you. It was sent working..you can see its working in the pictures too.

You posted on the 24th of March - the payment was issued on the 5th of March.
So don't try to parse that off as not mattering.

You told me that you would have posted it much earlier than this. There is no justification for delaying posting this long. Plus, my messages were not answered. I had no idea what had taken place but I do know that you do not keep to your word.

I shall be taking more photos, supplying videos. I have taken photos of the box before and after I have opened it and I know when it was posted out.

You have not been honest here.

[RaidenIII]

I will try to work with you...see what the problem is...
if it can't be resolved, we can then work together to see what refunds need to happen.
again, I am sorry for the original delay in postage. Sorry.

[MintyTheCat]

I will try to work with you...see what the problem is...
if it can't be resolved, we can then work together to see what refunds need to happen.
again, I am sorry for the original delay in postage. Sorry.

The best thing to do when handling trades or sales is to keep people informed and let them know of any delays or problems.

If I cannot get the machine to work correctly then we will be looking at a full refund. I am not unreasonable but forgive for thinking the worst given that messages were not replied to and I was left waiting for a duration that many people would regard as being just too long.

If you had have contacted me and let me know of any issues then that would have been good communication.

Let's keep this civilised and get it resolved.

[neorichieb1971]

hmmm, this is very public.

[RaidenIII]

I'm working with the buyer to try and get it resolved. All I asked is that we could put the delay in posting to one side for now.
I think the philips cm8833 monitor will not display NTSC 60HZ Composite picture, and I believe that may be the issue.
I'm working with now...the best option (although) may not be easy...is to try it on a set that will defo display NTSC Composite 60hz picture

As I said to him, his other consoles have worked because it was via RGB (will practically display on anything)
His NES displayed a picture because it is PAL (50hz and not 60hz NTSC Colour)

[MintyTheCat]

I have asked for some further info in determining which CRT will work and then to determine what the mod was. Modding the famicom and its short-comings is all new to me.

What I am a bit worried about though is that there is no audio besides there being no video. If it is that the chroma signal is not display (had this issue with NTSC VHS when capturing as I recall) then we would just expect to see B&W but clear video. At present there is no video so we need to work out what it could be.

[RaidenIII]

The Commodore monitors back in the day easily supported 60Hz, but no NTSC (which didn't matter when using RGB), so I would assume that your Philips behaves the same.

I fully believe it to be this. Although..i agree with what you're saying Minty about no black and white picture.
I really believe that it is best to get this tested on a set that would guarantee colour....
(again..i don't know how easy/hard this is for you....)

[MintyTheCat]

The Commodore monitors back in the day easily supported 60Hz, but no NTSC (which didn't matter when using RGB), so I would assume that your Philips behaves the same.

I fully believe it to be this. Although..i agree with what you're saying Minty about no black and white picture.
I really believe that it is best to get this tested on a set that would guarantee colour....
(again..i don't know how easy/hard this is for you....)

Well, if it is RGB that is coming out of the famicom with the mod then there should be no trouble (I think...) with the CM8833-II.

I have asked a mate who still has a CRT made in the 2000s to try it out on.

The other thing I can do is to sample the video output using an Oscilloscope to see if there is life. Because the famicom does not have any LED or what not to tell us that the machine is working I would have to get the multi meter out and check the voltage levels to but we will just wait to see if it is a monitor issue first before we open up the case. I work an Engineer but I do not know that much about video

[RaidenIII]

Minty..I've said in Messages.
The Famicom is Composite...its nothing like RGB...

[MintyTheCat]

Minty..I've said in Messages.
The Famicom is Composite...its nothing like RGB...

Ok, this monitor can handle Composite and RGB, but we need to determine if it can handle it for both PAL and NTSC.

[RaidenIII]

You need something that will display NTSC Colour and 60hz as its Japanese.
PAL is irrelevant. Like I said to you, your NES displayed because its PAL 50hz.....

Please just try your friend as the next step.

[Fudoh]

but we need to determine if it can handle it for both PAL and NTSC.

definitely not, but you are still supposed to get a black & white image from a NTSC composite source.

[RaidenIII]

Yes...that is what confused me...as I bought a bang and olufsen and..i got a black and white image...(NO Colour/Color)

[MintyTheCat]

but we need to determine if it can handle it for both PAL and NTSC.

definitely not, but you are still supposed to get a black & white image from a NTSC composite source.

No, no video at all and no audio.

[MintyTheCat]

I had some time to look at the famicom.

I first of all hooked up the machine's video output signal to a scope. I got nothing.

I then opened the machine up, checked the voltage levels - I checked three chips: the PPU - fine, 373 and 139 - fine.
I then found the video pin on the PPU on 17 - this shows me what I would expect to see for video.

So it seems that the video output stage has a problem.
I have asked the seller to find out who did the mod and to try to get the schematic that represents the mod's circuit. It should be fixable but what I can say right now is that the machine arrived with a broken video output stage.

I will work with the seller to resolve this but if any of you who know more about the famicom hardware at the technical level have any ideas, schematics and info on the mod options for the famicom then please let us know.

I have this machine up on my bench at the moment, I took photos along the way and I can take some more photos if anyone needs more info.

Cheers.

[RaidenIII]

I just want this to be transparent.....

Minty can't get the famicom to work, although..i did send it working.
I am not perfect, but, I have tried to help, I accept Minty isn't in the wrong either.

Because I sent it around 10 days late, he has requested a £10 late fee.
I have agreed to pay this.
Because he is sending it back...he has request the return post, I also paid £17 to send it.
So far, I feel for just sending it late, I am at the minimum going to be £45+ out of pocket.
I too have to pay to return a game I got as part of the trade, and In return, I'm probably going to get back a broken famicom.
Which has been meddled with too.

Again, I did send late...I did box the famicom and bubble wrap though.

Is this fair? I guess it is? But, I'm swallowing all the costs now.

[MintyTheCat]

I just want this to be transparent.....

Which has been meddled with too.

Let's make this very certain that we understand one another here:

The machine was connected to two monitors and one older TV: it did not work.

The machine's video output was then connected to an oscilloscope: no signal at all.

I then got the famicom's schematic online and wanted to check firstly the voltages, they are present and the machine is operational.
I then found out which pin outputs video on the famicom's PPU which is pin 17. We have video output on that pin.

http://atariusa.com/Famicom_Schematics/ ... 20Scan.jpg

The issue is that the circuit added as the mod does not appear to work. I am no expert and I do not and cannot get into that but I can say for the record:

The famicom has not been meddled with - that would imply that I have broken it and I most certainly have not.

I opened it for the first time today and it is in neither my best interests nor the seller's best interests for the famicom to be damaged and unoperational in any way.

Now before we have any other accusations I am a professional Engineer, I use Scopes and other test equipment in my daily work and although I am not an expert at electronics I know enough about it and having a working knowledge to be able to analyse a PCB. Having said that, I know nothing about the famicom or modding it and would not be confident enough to attempt to mod the famicom myself. I know quite a bit about the Megadrive but that's basically it for older games consoles.

What is promising though is that the famicom's motherboard appears to be operating as you would expect and it gives us a video signal on pin 17 of the PPU. The mod is the issue and I feel that once that has been repaired then there is a good chance it was just that at fault.

My feelings are that it was not shipped in a sturdy box and have suffered a knock during transit.
I can also see from the box that the postal carrier in Germany (GLS) had to apply tape to maintain the box's integrity.

I took photos of the box, the famicom so I have no problems in posting these up backing up what has transpired.

[RaidenIII]

I'm just posting what you have dictated to be paid.

[MintyTheCat]

I'm just posting what you have dictated to be paid.

Call is sanity reimbursal: I had not had any messages from you for an amount of time, you had told me that you had posted it. I ended up having to call my bank and was on the phone for ~ 120 minutes at the time.

I did not dictate however, but I did ask you to offer an amount as a 'sorry' if you like. I pride myself in being able to deliver on time, keep buyers updated, give them tracking info and that sort of thing, I feel that this inspires trust and let's face it we need that these days.

I did not know if you had sent it and it had gotten lost or if you had run off with my money and kept the machine. It is absolutely crucial to keep people updated on forums and such in this day and age of fraud. We had a chap last week in Holland who got ripped off and luckily he managed to track the seller down but many times we are at a loss so you have to ease people's fears when sending money to people and keep them informed if you are delayed or what not. Most reasonable people will usually be ok with you posting out late. For the record, I usually post out within four days or so once I have received payment.

[RaidenIII]

Lets get this clear for everyone. I am in the wrong for delay postage I have apologised profusely and still accept I was wrong.
You have asked for £10 for this, I have agreed to this.

Everything else, I feel as if I am not being given a fair run....I have responded to all PM's. tried to help in the mean time the best I can and in the mean time you put 'TBC' in bad traders list.

I feel I am at fault for some of this, I have said this, but, sucking up £50 that can't be claimed back is asking me to take all responsibility.