For those who DO NOT TATE

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:11 am

I've been tating my PC monitor for sometime now with no trouble. Played Guwange and Armed Police Batrider on it, among others.

But emulation is too boring, and I don't like to play games on my PC too much....

I used to play my consoles in a 29' TV. As you can imagine, I would never tate such monster. Anyway, this never bored me too much, as the only games I had which had this option were Strikers 1945 II on PSX and Shienryu on Saturn (Which has a "Interlaced" yoko mode, which works nicely).

But then I moved my consoles to a 20' TV. At this same time, I got Sonic Wings Special on Saturn, and I felt it was time to do the Tate...

I played both SWS and Shineryu on it. I basically onle played SWS like this ,while Shienryu just looks better without that interlace stuff.

Now I've got a few more games that support this (Raiden DX on PSX, Battle Garegga, Dodonpachi and Strikers 1945 on Saturn), so I played all on Tate since start.

I had never tried Strikers 1945 II, and I dunno why. Today I just felt like playing it, and I did the Tate.

BOY.. it's a different game. It seems like when playing in Yoko, the game conpensates the lack of space by firing less bullets at certain points. In Tate mode, the game fire a lot more of bullets. Still the game is EASIER because there is a lot more of space to dodge. There were some boss patterns where I always used to bomb because I couldn't never get past them. In TATE I dodged them easily.

Another thing I noticed is that everything dies a lot faster in Yoko mode. Probably because they stay less time on screen, so they did this to balance the game.

Then I tried Dodonpachi in Yoko mode... JESUS, it's DAMN IMPOSSIBLE. I couldn't even get past of level 1 without dying (That big tank that shoots lots of bullets at high speed, all at same time.. he ALWAYS GET me, because when he shoots, he is always SO CLOSE to me that he gets me, while in the arcade mode he's a lot more closer to the top of the screen)

So, I dunno.. I felt like checking out the differences in all those games I own in both Yoko and Tate modes. Anyone ever did this before? Do many games area really *that* different?

And btw, while in the subject... is there any problem if I keep tating and un-tating my TV? It's just that i use this TV for my everyday gaming, and I do enjoy other genres, and sometimes I am afraid of being damaging my TV or make it's life shorter because of this.

Post by **system11** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:24 am

Depends on the TV. Some will basically be ruined the first time you do it, some won't, some will collapse internally and actually die because they're designed to be one way up (note: this is why the boxes have 'this way up' on them).

I don't tate my TV. It's too heavy, and the side would crack, and so would the glass top of the TV stand.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:14 am

Of course tate isn´t good for TVs, as they are not produced for this purpose. But that doesn´t mean you shouldn´t do it, as it´s just way too much fun. I´d just consider a few things:

- don´t leave a tate´d TV in standby mode or even running while not at home, as heat might get stuck inside
- don´t expect a tate (tube) TV to last as long as a regular one. This alone should be enough reason to prefer a separate TV for tate.
- the turning process can affect the tube´s stability, so it´s safer to keep a TV in tate mode. It´s also more comfortable. When I had just one TV, I´d often decide what game to play depending on the current state it was in. Having 2 TVs it´s much easier to change between yoko and tate games.
- as everybody is running to get an LCD (or plasma) TV nowadays, regular tube TVs are pretty cheap to get. Of course, LCD TVs are even easier to tate, and don´t have heat problems, so if you have one of these, you might not need a separate tate TV.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:17 am

I don't Tate my TV, but I do play games in Tate mode sometimes. I usually perfer to play the normal mode, but I'm good at adjusting to turned controls.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:22 am

Yup, I have a 20 inch RCA TV which is great for flipping. My brother remarked that it has pretty decent resolution for a '98 composite TV. I vividly remember the first time I flipped it 4 years ago and played Garegga and Strikers II Saturn TATE for the first time, my jaw dropped, what a blast. After I get my tax refund I may get a 20 inch LCD TV which can be had for about $500 now at Walmart.

Post by **system11** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:26 am

For people like me who play games in their lounge, and don't have the space for 2 TVs in out of the way places, I can recommend the large Sony 4:3 TVs, if you can still find them (they stopped making them a year or so ago). A 28" in yoko gives you about the same as a 20" on its side will.

If youre stuck with getting a widescreen, you need to be hitting the 36" ones for the same viewing area (in yoko, in 4:3 aspect). Crazy of course, but I'm not a widescreen fan anyway!

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:33 am

tate isn´t about size, really, but rather resolution. Even if the game area is bigger on a large TV in yoko mode, the game will play and look better on a smaller one in tate.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:37 am

Well, here in Brazil LCD or plasma tvs are still a joke for most people. I don't remember ever seeing one smaller than 29', and all of them are incredbily, INCREDIBLY expensive.

So, Tube TVs are still the common thing here, and they aren't exactly "cheap". I can't afford to have 2 tvs (I would like too, though).

I never leave they on stand-by. I turn them back to their position as soon as I stop playing.

Dylan, you had this TV for 4 years.. did you flipped it all the time, and is it still working?

Now I am getting worried... if this TV dies, I won't have any other TV to play games for a while... should I stop flipping it? The TV has already supported something around 20 hours of tate gaming, and I have flipped it about a dozen of times, I guess.

Post by **system11** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:41 am

raiden wrote:tate isn´t about size, really, but rather resolution. Even if the game area is bigger on a large TV in yoko mode, the game will play and look better on a smaller one in tate.

Yes, the graphics don't look as sharp usually in yoko mode - you can spot the scaling on things like backgrounds, but it's a tradeoff that you have to make sometimes. As for playing better, not too sure about that. Maybe in the old days of sprite hits bullet = death, but since in modern shmups the bullets overlap the ships apart from the magical invisible hitbox, it's less of an issue.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:44 am

Dylan, you had this TV for 4 years.. did you flipped it all the time, and is it still working?

I have had it for over 6 1/2 years. Started flipping it 4 years ago back in fall 2000. I wouldn't say all the time but a lot, yes. I mean I flip it with any shmup that has TATE whether it be Garegga or Ikaruga.

gs68 · Post by **gs68** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:13 am

I never tate my TV. I have poor arm strength plus I'd rather not cause various kinds of damage to my TV.

I could rotate my head 90 degrees but it's uncomfortable.

So, so much for enjoying DoDonPachi: Dai Ou Jou to the fullest.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:22 am

It all depends on how the TV is built. I would say most TV's are strong enough to be able to tate. Plus the glass tube is pretty sturdy on its own.
I've had a 27" JVC for years...since 96 at least.(no S-Video) I've been tating it for years.
When I'm not playing a tated vert, I flip it back to normal, as its not a "dedicated" tate. It is however, a dedicated video game TV.

Actually you cannot ruin a TV like that the first time you do it. Someone said that. The only thing serious that could happen, is if it falls or tips over.
Just make sure its balanced, or even put it on the floor. Sideways shouldn't damage it, now upside down is a different story.
I keep mine on a TV stand, I balance the back part against the wall. All is fine for me.

I'm glad you can tell the difference with these games. Patterns and "dodge-a-bility" increases when in tate. Bullet spacing will now seem possible to navigate through.

With all this talk of TATE TV, I'm sure you understand the basics of the "deguasing process"?
If not, I can explain later. (I just won't bother, if you already know)

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:33 am

Oh, btw:
For those that are too scared or weak to flip your TV's, there is an alternative...don't tate your TV, tate your brain!
Seriously, lay on your side! It works, and you will be able to play it properly. Just don't get up fast when your done...you're equilibrium will be shot for a few seconds!

If you really can't "flip", try laying down!!!

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:35 am

Yes, I do know all the "deguasing process" stuff

Funny thing is that I've flipped my TV a couple of times without doing nothing of this, and I never got any colours blending or anything.

When I begun flipping my Monitor, I would always press the degauss button.. after sometime I stopped bothering, and I never saw any problem either.

I always flip my TV with care, always make sure it's balanced....

But it's a SONY TV... with all this talking about Sony making crap stuff, should I begin worrying?

(just kidding)

IlMrm · Post by **IlMrm** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:46 am

I got a 13' TV for about 60 bucks for the sole purpose of gaming. I don't watch regular television on it, no cable hooked up to it. The downside is I have to sit pretty close to it to see(bad eyesight and all - gonna get much worse sitting so close). Lately I've been leaving the TV in tate position for Gunbird 2. If the TV breaks, I'll probably get the same one, hopefully even cheaper.

worn · Post by **worn** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:09 am

Hi,

I just got an old tv from my parents, and use it only for
tate mode. I'll never play games in yoko again when I don't
have to, the difference is too big, and the games make
much more fun!

whoisKeel · Post by **whoisKeel** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:22 am

I tated my TV for the first time last week after buying dodonpachi. It's a 27" POS (coax input only). I got some color distortion on the corners, but still played it all day. It really is a big difference. Everything just looks so much better (especially ikaruga, although the downsizing scalling is much worse in dodonpachi). Can't say it made me play any better tho

But now I have a dilemma, I'm buying a new tv within the next two weeks (tax return). I want to get one of those 27" sony flatscreens, but I'm thinking they are like 100 pounds. I'd like to stick to 27" instead of downsizing, but I really want to tate. I definitely don't have room for 2 tvs. Any recommendations?

worn · Post by **worn** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:46 am

> I got some color distortion on the corners,

that's normal by turning a tv, befor you turn it, unplug it from
power supply for about 2 hours, the turn it.
leaving a tv turned, you'll not have any color distortion.

>It really is a big difference

and it look much more impressive seeing the hole screen without
the up & down scrolling!

Guardians Knight · Post by **Guardians Knight** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:52 am

i find colour distortion only happens if you are not careful when turning the tv. Just think of your tv as a lady, be gentle and she'll never run off with the milkman.

That 2 hour stuff is rubbish, yeah i wouldnt want to flip the tv while its on but i often use it normally then turn it off and then flip it, as long as you do it carefully it doesn't matter

Skyline · Post by **Skyline** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:10 am

My TV is a rather piece-of-crapolla White Westinghouse 25-incher, which, while heavy as fuck, tates pretty well. I just flip it while the TV is off, wait a good 10 minutes, and then have at it. Usually the color distortion isn't an issue, but sometimes it's a bit green-ey around the edges on the right side. Hasen't crapped out on me yet, after about a year of on again-off again flipping.

I'll most likely get an equally cheap-ass TV in the future strictly for tate, or get a better one for yoko. And although my compooper monitor is 100% tateable (hell it HAS to be since the video drivers support vertical display), it's kind of annoying when you have to flip it back to yoko to answer IMs

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:24 am

There is a bit of truth behind unplugging it. Especially if the TV is grounded at the mains plug. I think all TV's and monitors are grounded.

If something is grounded it will hold a charge better, so if magnetism is evident causing the greeny/purply issues unplugging it could have an effect. Plus when you plug it back in it will be slightly better neutralized than a simple soft reset/degause from just switching it off and on.

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:36 pm

worn wrote:>befor you turn it, unplug it from
power supply for about 2 hours, the turn it.

About 5 minutes works for me.
(unplugged for 5 minutes, then rotate, then plug in & turn on power)

I just thought of something: Does the term "tate" come from "ro-tate?"

chtimi-CLA · Post by **chtimi-CLA** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:30 pm

5 minutes or 2 minutes works fine. test away, at worst you will have to turn it off again if it's still purplish.
THE PURPLE OR GREEN TINT IS NEVER PERMANENT WHEN YOU TATE. it would only be if you applied a magnet on the screen.
i've been tate-ing 4 different TV's since the saturn layer section release (ie. a long time ago) and never one problem.
if your TV isn't square enough use an open phone book or whatever adjustable thickness of paper to wedge under andstabilize it (or put it against a wall, ...).

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:35 pm

tate is jp. short form of "tateru"=to stand
yoko is a jp. adjective, meaning horizontal

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:45 pm

raiden wrote:tate is jp. short form of "tateru"=to stand
yoko is a jp. adjective, meaning horizontal

I'll hafta add those to the definitions on the shmup glossary...

Back on topic, I pretty much always play stuff in Yoko to the best of my ability: the TV in my room is some 13-inch piece o' junk, but another room in the house has a new 27-incher which I can hook my systems up to, stuff plays nicely on there. I also own a monitor which I can put in tate, but seeing as I didn't know I'd need to have a customized cable made for it when I bought it, I can only get a b+w picture on it. Bah.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:21 pm

but seeing as I didn't know I'd need to have a customized cable made for it when I bought it, I can only get a b+w picture on it.

why don´t you go ahead and assemble that cable by yourself? Information should be availlable on the net, and what have you got to lose?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:32 pm

I'm way too much of a klutz to trust myself with something like this, I'd rather hang onto the cable which came with the monitor till I find someone more capable who'd be willing to try it for me.

OptimusPrimeX · Post by **OptimusPrimeX** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:02 pm

neorichieb1971 wrote:There is a bit of truth behind unplugging it. Especially if the TV is grounded at the mains plug. I think all TV's and monitors are grounded.

If something is grounded it will hold a charge better, so if magnetism is evident causing the greeny/purply issues unplugging it could have an effect. Plus when you plug it back in it will be slightly better neutralized than a simple soft reset/degause from just switching it off and on.

True... technically i can't really explain it, and i think someone explained it to me on Gamefaqs during a late night 3AM shmup chat session. Anyway, the Magnetism in the Tube will cause your Tv to Perminantly become distorted if you aren't careful!!!!!!!!!!.But as said before, unless you have a magnet to the TV, the chances are more slim, but more possible if you have a larger TV.. like my 29' i flip .

. I would advise anyone doing this, to at least have the TV OFF and/or Unplugged for a good amount of time, flip it.__> plug it in again, and there you go. The color distortion on the corner of the TV is a good example of how this most tubes aren't made to be filpped. Ever try taking a magnet to a Television?... yeah well. if you put it on the face of the TV, you'll see color distortion, and if left on there for a few seconds, it will perminently burn the colors into a spot in the tV.

So dont ruin your TV......

Whats the more Legit , acceptable way to Tate????????.... RGB monitors???>....

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:14 pm

I started turning my tv over a few weeks ago. It's so much better than having the screen cropped. A friend of mine practically soiled his drawers when he saw Psyvariar 2 running in tate for the first time. You notice so much more detail and it's much easier to navigate sprays. I have an old pc monitor just for tate purposes and turn my tv on its side whenever i want to play a game.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:34 pm

Actually, I don't even have to wait for tate.
If the tubes are cold, I can simply flip and play in tate right away.
But lets say I was playing Thunderforce/Pulstar, or something horizontal...yea, I would have to wait with power off for about 15 minutes.
I've never had to unplug er though.

Some degausing coils work faster than others; most of the time, when you push the "on" button, before the screen even lights up. The coils are your friend...they're there only to remove color distortion.