PS3 vs X360 - shmups

[siemien]

Hello. I wonder if PS3 is better for older shmups like Raystorm or DoDonPachi, which I can buy from PSN store. Many people here write that slowly x360 is being shaded by PC releases of shmups and Cave will eventually release more on PC. But what if I want to buy PS3 instead X360. Is is a good option for Shmups players? Under Defeat HD, Raystorm HD (don't know what PSN store), all old PSX shmups like Harmeful Park or mentioned earlier DoDonPachi etc.

[broken harbour]

While the Japanese PSN store does have cheap digital versions of some pricey games, the upconversion to HD the PS3 performs on PS1 games does result in some input lag. I've noticed some games are worse than others, when I try to play G-Darius or Zanac x Zanac the game is unplayable, but others are ok.

Now if you output component to a CRT this may not be the case, I've not tested it.

I for one would stick with PC for shmups in general, or if you are a Cave-fiend like me, buy a japanese X360, the selection and quality of ports is awesome, they just add up to a lot of money.

[ATTRACTS]

Not worth it in my opinion. The lag on most of the PS1 games on the Japanese PSN is pretty nasty and (in my opinion) takes away from a lot of the enjoyment. For Cave games (as well as a terrific variety of other shmups), a cheap Japanese 360 is the way to go. PC is definitely catching up and it's starting to become a great viable option but then you have to deal with waiting for the releases, bugs and performance issues and the usual dilemmas of hardware etc. Cheap 360 or a PS2 is your easiest bet for best performance for the kinds of shmups you've mentioned.

PS3 is decent for Under Defeat/Ketsui/Mamorokun but the selection compared to the 360/PS2 is tiny.

[HydrogLox]

a cheap Japanese 360

There is only one source I know of for a "reasonably" priced new NTSC-J Xbox 360 - and used or new there is little you can do about the US$100+ EMS shipping charge when the system comes from Japan. Now when it comes to a "cheap" Xbox 360 to play region-locked games see http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p1162643.

Of Cave's games both Ketsui and DoDonPachi DaiOuJou are the least likely to make the transition from Xbox 360 to PC because the Xbox 360 ports belong to Mages Inc./5pb. Games and they haven't shown any interest in Steam yet and Cave isn't going to re-port those games all over again. It remains to be seen whether G.rev continues with their ports to PC. I don't know what Treasure's deal is - 2 years since the Ikaruga Steam release and still no sign of Radiant Silvergun or Bangai-O HD: Missile Fury. Hopefully Triangle Service will put Trizeal and Exzeal on Steam (lots of people would also like to see "Shmups Skill Test" and "Combatzeal"). Qute's Ginga Force is so far still absent from PC.
Etc ...

[ATTRACTS]

a cheap Japanese 360

There is only one source I know of for a "reasonably" priced new NTSC-J Xbox 360 - and used or new there is little you can do about the US$100+ EMS shipping charge when the system comes from Japan. Now when it comes to a "cheap" Xbox 360 to play Japanese games see http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p1162643.

Not sure why "cheap" and "reasonably priced" is in quotes like it's some out of reach unicorn. If you pay $100 for EMS shipping for J360, you're a fool. If he's in the States, there are plenty of free shipping/US Seller Japanese 360's on EBay. Retro_Saikou has always been one of the better sellers I've encountered and they update their inventory every few days. The better slim (non RROD) models are almost always available. You can avoid getting raped financially if you take a minute to look around.

[HydrogLox]

Not sure why "cheap" and "reasonably priced" is in quotes like it's some out of reach unicorn.

Because of the context that was established in the OPs earlier topic:
http://shmups.system11.org/posting.php? ... &p=1166479

At this point I want to use what I have available, so buying ntsc-j x360 is out of the question.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p1168355

I was thinking about buying ntsc-j x360 in future. How much I would have to pay for it?

Typically the initial console purchase is followed by a long, regular stream of not-so-cheap game purchases (pricier over time for physical copies) which quickly accumulate to the equivalent of a tidy sum. In my experience the phrase import console in general and NTSC-J Xbox 360 in particular shouldn't be seen anywhere near the word cheap or inexpensive. Import gaming always has a tendency to get expensive in the long run (granted poorly handled domestic gaming can get expensive as well but that is a different topic). Furthermore "cheap" and "expensive" can be seen as relative terms based on the individual's financial status and value reference but it is much easier to game on-the-cheap with domestic products.

If he's in the States, there are plenty of free shipping/US Seller Japanese 360's on EBay. Retro_Saikou has always been one of the better sellers I've encountered.

http://stores.ebay.com/Retro-Saikou/Consoles-Systems-/_i.html?_fsub=4473787011
So right now there's a used NTSC-J Xbox 360 S for $144.99 free shipping in the US (no shipping anywhere else). Don't get me wrong, the free shipping is great (for those who can take advantage of it) but it still looks to me that "if you take a minute to look around" that still represents a 50%-100% markup over a used domestic console. I'm not saying it isn't worth it to the right person ...
FYI:

Also, are all shmups games available to purchase from JPN xbox store even if I live in Europe?

[ATTRACTS]

Not sure why "cheap" and "reasonably priced" is in quotes like it's some out of reach unicorn.

Because of the context that was established in the OPs earlier topic:
http://shmups.system11.org/posting.php? ... &p=1166479

At this point I want to use what I have available, so buying ntsc-j x360 is out of the question.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p1168355

I was thinking about buying ntsc-j x360 in future. How much I would have to pay for it?

Typically the initial console purchase is followed by a long, regular stream of not-so-cheap game purchases (pricier over time for physical copies) which quickly accumulate to the equivalent of a tidy sum. In my experience the phrase import console in general and NTSC-J Xbox 360 in particular shouldn't be seen anywhere near the word cheap or inexpensive. Import gaming always has a tendency to get expensive in the long run (granted poorly handled domestic gaming can get expensive as well but that is a different topic). Furthermore "cheap" and "expensive" can be seen as relative terms based on the individual's financial status and value reference but it is much easier to game on-the-cheap with domestic products.

If he's in the States, there are plenty of free shipping/US Seller Japanese 360's on EBay. Retro_Saikou has always been one of the better sellers I've encountered.

http://stores.ebay.com/Retro-Saikou/Consoles-Systems-/_i.html?_fsub=4473787011
So right now there's a used NTSC-J Xbox 360 S for $144.99 free shipping in the US (no shipping anywhere else). Don't get me wrong, the free shipping is great (for those who can take advantage of it) but it still looks to me that "if you take a minute to look around" that still represents a 50%-100% markup over a used domestic console. I'm not saying it isn't worth it to the right person ...
FYI:

Also, are all shmups games available to purchase from JPN xbox store even if I live in Europe?

Lmao. The blind leading the blind.
Also, sorry I didn't carefully monitor his other completely separate post.
Good luck OP. Valid point still stands, if you're not opposed to doing the absolute bare minimum of research, you can obtain a J360 without getting robbed. You may have to check EBay for a few days to find a Euro seller. You need to educate yourself on the XBL Store and how region/IP lockouts work before proceeding though. Many Japanese Xbox store games will not work/cannot be downloaded if you are in Europe or have a Euro account. The "Xbox Live Arcade" games are region free and work fine but if you are looking to download/play full Cave releases etc. you might have a hard time. Japanese 360 with Japanese 360 retail releases for full games is the safer bet.

[Triple Lei]

If you're going the Japanese PSN route, consider getting a cheap Vita TV / PlayStation TV. It shouldn't have the lag associated with the Dual Shock 3 on a PS3... but if you're using arcade sticks, you have to use a PS2 stick and PS2-to-PS3 adapter like this guy.

[bobrocks95]

If you're going the Japanese PSN route, consider getting a cheap Vita TV / PlayStation TV. It shouldn't have the lag associated with the Dual Shock 3 on a PS3... but if you're using arcade sticks, you have to use a PS2 stick and PS2-to-PS3 adapter like this guy.

The DualShock 3 has notable lag on its own console?

[HydrogLox]

It shouldn't have the lag associated with the Dual Shock 3 on a PS3...

Apart from the input lag due to emulation (has nothing to do with wired vs. wireless) the PS3 piles on software-based video processing lag which goes on top of any display lag that a typical consumer HD TV may have.

The Vita uses a different emulator where the input lag isn't as pronounced for many games according to this discussion:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=41492933

However it isn't clear whether this translates directly to the PlayStation TV as the video processing could vary (Vita has a native 960 × 544 display, while the PSTV outputs 480p or 720p - PS1 games apparently aren't supported at 1080i according to the manual. Rumor has it that the Vita/PSTV simply runs the PS1 emulator for PSP inside the PSP emulator).

Fortunately PS1 classics seem to be generally compatible with PSTV, Examples:

• Ai Cho Aniki (PCE)
• Cho Aniki - Kyuukyoku Muteki Ginga Saikyou Otoko
• Cotton Original
• Cotton 100%
• DonPachi
• DoDonPachi
• Dezeamon Plus
• Einhänder
• G-Darius
• Gaia Seed
• Gradius (PCE)
• Gradius II (PCE)
• Harmful Park
• Arcade Hits Raiden
• RayCrisis
• RayStorm
• Salamander/Lifeforce (PCE)
• Shienryu
• Soldier Blade (PCE)
• Sonic Wings Special
• Strikers 1945 II
• Super Star Soldier (PCE)
• Thunder Force V
• Xevious 3D/G+
• Zanac x Zanac

[BONKERS]

If you play them directly on a PSP/PSV, I feel the input lag is less of an issue.

With the PS3 and an LCD TV the input lag compounds.

Output to a CRTTV, all you get is 480i. But I had no issues completing a game like MM8 over 480i component on a PS3. Which has that ridiculous "JUMP JUMP JUMP" Section of some stages.

Using a PSPGO to output 240p with a PS3 controller to a CRT is a decent option but latency issues depend on the game. (And the Bluetooth seems to add a small bit too) And the signal isn't as sharp as out of say a PS2. I have to set sharpness +6 on my CRT to somewhat match the level of sharpness 240p from the PS2 (On a scale of 32 points and 16 is the neutral position. So 22/32)

If you're going the Japanese PSN route, consider getting a cheap Vita TV / PlayStation TV. It shouldn't have the lag associated with the Dual Shock 3 on a PS3... but if you're using arcade sticks, you have to use a PS2 stick and PS2-to-PS3 adapter like this guy.

The DualShock 3 has notable lag on its own console?

When using the wireless mode. Just a tad.

[jandrogo]

How will look like those ps classics in a vita tv at 480p + slg3000?
Decent or shit?

[ZellSF]

Uh. Have the people saying Vita/Vita TV is less laggy tried? Admittedly I've only tried one game, but the lag was worse than on my PS3.

I can't find a single statement in the linked NeoGAF topic which says anything definitive on the matter. They're comparing the Vita to the PS3, but their comparisons are meaningless without any mention of the input lag of their displays.

How will look like those ps classics in a vita tv at 480p + slg3000?
Decent or shit?

Pretty sure it does a plain bilinear resize with slightly distorted aspect ratio no matter what resolution you run it at.

Personally wouldn't buy a PS3 to buy PSX classics on it; get a PSX for that. Get a 360 for delicious ports.

[broken harbour]

A store near me was blowing out PSTV's for 20 bucks so I bought one today, I'll try a few PS1 classics that I already own and see if the lag is any different than on my PS3.

On a related note, I wonder what Vita and PSP games I should get for my PSTV? I know a lot of the good Vita games don't work on it.

[bobrocks95]

If you haven't already updated you can do a whitelist mod that lets you play any game on it.

[FinalBaton]

Output to a CRTTV, all you get is 480i. (PS3)

but if you get an Extron RGB interface and perform a little trick, you will get a good 240p output out of the 480i PS3(set to "Scart" output) signal to send to an SD CRT.

That should be an awesome look for shmups.

Also there should be a way of getting 480p out of the PS3 in "Scart" output mode. I've seen people here mention Ultimarc cables supporting 480p with the PS3 set to "Scart" output, but I haven't tested this myself. And of course there's component.

What display are you planning on playing this on? SD CRT? HD CRT? HDTV lcd/plasma?

I can't comment on the lag from PSN over a SCART cable, or component cable though. And on the selection of shmups available either (although there should be a bunch from PS1 and PS2).
But the consensus seems to be that there's a bigger shmups selection on X360

If you already own a PS3, or can get one for very cheap, this might be interesting to try