Anybody have shadow mask TV recommendations?

[BazookaBen]

So after seeing some screenshots on this forum, and visiting a barcade recently, I'm interested in getting a shadowmask CRT. Monitors are hard to find, so I'm wondering which companies made the best consumer shadow mask TV's. And if you could give me a time-range or model number to look for, that's even better.

[Taiyaki]

Wouldn't any American made crt be using a shadowmask? I think aperture grill was Sony's exclusive technology that was licensed to other manufacturers mostly the ones in Japan, I could be wrong though, hopefully someone more knowledgeable steps in.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia the patents expired and many other manufacturers started making them too.

My guess would be any tv that's fully curved (not slight curve or flat) would be shadowmask perhaps?

[gray117]

Anything non Sony pre ...1995?... Not sure. By about 99 I think everyone was getting into aperture grilles for graphics on pc monitors - learning to live with those 2 wires so definitely before then. Can't seem to find a date for when sony's copyright ran out... Might have been different for different territories.

More likely just see what's around in your area in decent condition... After all likely something around 20 years old now?

[darcagn]

Most non-Sony TVs are going to be shadow mask.... Even though you said consumer, I'm gonna recommend the Ikegami pro monitors. I love my TM20-80R.

[BazookaBen]

If I could find an Ikegami or JVC pro monitor around North Carolina, I'd totally go for it. But those are very rare around here, so I'm wondering about consumer TV's. Did JVC make some high end TV's in the late 90's, early 00's?

[darcagn]

Ah yeah, that makes sense.

I paid to have mine shipped across the U.S. Luckily the seller included full insurance and packaged it very, very well.

[mvsfan]

Mitsubishi made the Diamondtron.

its an non sony aperature grill tv.

i think almost all the rest are shadow mask.

[cfx]

.

[Taiyaki]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a flat screen will definitely be aperture grill, it's part of what distinguishes the technology from the shadow mask technology. I think semi curve can be either I believe. Panasonic Tau's made after 2000 are most likely aperture grill, I had one and they're really cool sets though imo.

[tjsynkral]

I love my Zenith B19A21D that I just RGB modded. Maybe there's a similar tube with an S-vid or component input.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZT1hcJWwAA6SoA.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZT1hcJWQAAxw6b.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZT1hcJWcAASDO0.jpg:large

[kamiboy]

Depending on your OCD level the B&O CRT's from the midt 2000's are fine sets. while a rare sight in most of the world they are rather ubiquitous here in old DK. So much that seeing perfectly working units trashed is not a rare sight.

[gray117]

Mitsubishi made the Diamondtron.

its an non sony aperature grill tv.

i think almost all the rest are shadow mask.

Found a little bit on wikipedia - Sony's license ran out in 1996 - after then everyone, including mitsubisihi started making aperture grilles... people still made plenty of screens using shadow mask, but I think leading up to 2000 the majority started to go to aperture grille? ... Perhaps I'm wrong for tv's - I'm basing this impression mostly off kind of pc monitors I was looking at (in the uk) during this period where the sharpness + colour was definitely a key point of interest. tbh I was all sony fan-boyed up when it came to video editing and regular tvs so (perhaps in my ignorance) really didn't see why anyone else would take a punt on another tv brand - just due to build, let alone picture quality - there was a lot of flimsy crap about in the uk...

B&O I'd be interested in, but to be honest I never saw them in education/professional evnironments and by the time they got within my price range I was onto eyeing up lcd monitors but can't say they hold nostalgic appeal for me... though I do remember being stunned in when I saw oldboy on a friend's B&O ... that was probably 2003/4, were they all shadow masks still?

[kamiboy]

B&O used Phillips tubes, and to my knowledge they never did anything but shadow mask. The three 2000's B&O models I have here are all shadow mask. In fact, I think outside of PC monitors almost everyone stuck to shadow masks. I guess the general TV buying consumer couldn't have cared less, and the TV makers never bothered switching over.

[Ed Oscuro]

The Samsung I got rid of a while back (I've written its model number here before) was shadow mask, but didn't have component of any kind, just S-Video. Light for 27", curved, and a decent picture (but nothing on any Wega).

[accaris]

You want to look for a JVC I'Art, non-HD version. This was one of their final tube series and it used invar shadowmask. The picture quality is incredible.

[Xyga]

I just go for those in best condition and curved (less trouble and lighter), it's shadow mask anyway, I'll also favor the ease of use.

One 25" THOMSON from the early 2000's I got recently sports an ITC008 digital chassis which divides geometry controls between service menu and potentiometers on the chassis itself, which is kind of bothersome.
Also it doesn't like too powerful RGB signals from arcade pcb's with fixed maxed-out brightness output.
But it's in such good condition I'm keeping it anyway. ^^

PS: also got a noname (Clayton) flat shadow mask 21" equipped with a common 11AK30 digital chassis (mid-2010's just before the end of crt's), which isn't great but at least shows all geometry controls directly from the service menu.
The shadow mask on that one looks almost awful compared to the curved 25" Thomson's.

[BazookaBen]

Awesome, some concrete answers! Some of the names you guys are mentioning, I'm seeing on my local craigslist:

https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5379322589.html
https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5376573146.html
https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5374757531.html

The phillips and samsung are flat, so I'm not sure if they'd be shadow mask or not, but they have component inputs so I really hope they are! I do have a Samsung PC CRT that is flat and a shadow mask, so I'm hopeful.

The Panasonic looks like it's from the 90's so it has a higher chance of being shadow mask, I guess. Probably means no component, so I'd have to take a chance and try to RGB mod it. And I don't know if any of these three sets are higher end, or just budget models. They could all be completely blurry and washed out given their age. So I guess I'll have to set aside an afternoon to check them out

You want to look for a JVC I'Art, non-HD version. This was one of their final tube series and it used invar shadowmask. The picture quality is incredible.

Great info, thanks! I've never heard of this model, hope they're somewhat common.

[bobrocks95]

I have a flatscreen JVC I-Art CRT that I randomly picked up off of Craigslist for a project. Ended up not using it, didn't know they were a standout model or anything. Might mean they're common though!

[accaris]

I have a flatscreen JVC I-Art CRT that I randomly picked up off of Craigslist for a project. Ended up not using it, didn't know they were a standout model or anything. Might mean they're common though!

Yeah to my knowledge they were one of the best invar shadowmask consumer grade TVs around. They definitely aren't too common though, since they were around 2003-2006 and people were already switching to HDTVs by 2006.

[atheistgod1999]

I'm gonna recommend the Ikegami pro monitors. I love my TM20-80R.

But those are still thousands of dollars.

Also, OP, why do you want a shadow mask?

[accaris]

Awesome, some concrete answers! Some of the names you guys are mentioning, I'm seeing on my local craigslist:

https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5379322589.html
https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5376573146.html
https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5374757531.html

The phillips and samsung are flat, so I'm not sure if they'd be shadow mask or not, but they have component inputs so I really hope they are! I do have a Samsung PC CRT that is flat and a shadow mask, so I'm hopeful.

I know all 3 of these TVs.

Last one is a Samsung DynaFlat TXN2730F, invar shadowmask, 480i. If there's no discoloration on the screen, I would say this is your best choice. The DynaFlat's were pretty high quality, they came out before Samsung's terrible SlimFit line. From what I recall it has very robust service menu controls including horizontal size. This one has the remote which is a major plus. It weights 100 lbs, though.

The Panasonic is good, but know that you need the "Action" button on a Panasonic remote control to access the service menu. Also, Panasonic TVs typically didn't have horizontal size circtuitry, so if there's overscan, you're out of luck. This TV won't have component input.

The Philips 20-inch has pretty good picture quality, but again, you'll need the remote to do anything. I don't think you can even access the menu on this one without the remote. This was a very common and cheap model.

[BazookaBen]

I know all 3 of these TVs.

Accaris you are the man! I'll definitely try to take a look at that samsung in the next few days. I also heard bad things about their "slim" CRT's so I'm glad this is not one of those.

Also, OP, why do you want a shadow mask?

A few reasons. I recently visited a barcade, and realized that all of their monitors had smaller, softer scanlines than what I have on my PVM's. It's definitely how I remember arcade games looking as a kid, and the super sharp scanlines on my PVM's are leagues away from when I played consoles through RF adapters as a kid. So I'm thinking a shadow mask tube will be a nice middle ground, not as sharp as a PVM, but with good color and detail at 240p. This is also backed up by some screenshots I've been seeing on the forum lately, like in the other thread with Ikegami screenshots. I think I might just prefer that look, though I won't be sure until I have a shadow mask tube in my possession.

Also, since I have 3 PVM's, it'd be nice to have a different tube utilizing a different technology to mix it up a little.

[bobrocks95]

Yeah to my knowledge they were one of the best invar shadowmask consumer grade TVs around. They definitely aren't too common though, since they were around 2003-2006 and people were already switching to HDTVs by 2006.

Fair point. Kinda sucks that I got lucky on something I ended up not needing then, someone else may have been really happy with it. I'd gladly transfer that luck to other CRTs, where I seem to have none!

But those are still thousands of dollars.

Also, OP, why do you want a shadow mask?

I'm sure darcagn didn't pay anywhere near that much for a used one, just like people here don't pay thousands for their multi-sync BVMs that may have new old stock somewhere that's trying to sell them for that much. The key point of CRTs is availability- if you can find it for cheap, it doesn't really matter if it's the best of the best.

[darcagn]

I'm gonna recommend the Ikegami pro monitors. I love my TM20-80R.

But those are still thousands of dollars.

lolwut

Mine has a late manufacturing date (2005) and looks basically brand new and I paid like $200 or something for it before shipping.

[Taiyaki]

Also, OP, why do you want a shadow mask?

A few reasons. I recently visited a barcade, and realized that all of their monitors had smaller, softer scanlines than what I have on my PVM's. It's definitely how I remember arcade games looking as a kid, and the super sharp scanlines on my PVM's are leagues away from when I played consoles through RF adapters as a kid. So I'm thinking a shadow mask tube will be a nice middle ground, not as sharp as a PVM, but with good color and detail at 240p. This is also backed up by some screenshots I've been seeing on the forum lately, like in the other thread with Ikegami screenshots. I think I might just prefer that look, though I won't be sure until I have a shadow mask tube in my possession.

Also, since I have 3 PVM's, it'd be nice to have a different tube utilizing a different technology to mix it up a little.

There's also a world of difference between a consumer crt aperture grill and pvm's aperture grill. I can relate to that though I went through the same thing. I was crt-less from 08 to 13 when I decided I couldn't live without a crt for classic games and I went through the pro monitor phase myself before going back to consumer sets where I'm currently really happy with.

[BazookaBen]

There's also a world of difference between a consumer crt aperture grill and pvm's aperture grill. I can relate to that though I went through the same thing. I was crt-less from 08 to 13 when I decided I couldn't live without a crt for classic games and I went through the pro monitor phase myself before going back to consumer sets where I'm currently really happy with.

I'm guessing PVM's will have the upper hand with 480i stuff, thanks to the sharpness. Hopefully I'll have the Samsung in my hands later this week to see how it stacks up with both 240p and 480i content.

[Taiyaki]

There's also a world of difference between a consumer crt aperture grill and pvm's aperture grill. I can relate to that though I went through the same thing. I was crt-less from 08 to 13 when I decided I couldn't live without a crt for classic games and I went through the pro monitor phase myself before going back to consumer sets where I'm currently really happy with.

I'm guessing PVM's will have the upper hand with 480i stuff, thanks to the sharpness. Hopefully I'll have the Samsung in my hands later this week to see how it stacks up with both 240p and 480i content.

To be honest I would argue that the PVM doesn't have the upper hand for any format when it comes to games. PVM's give a sharper picture but they give quite a different picture than what we were all familiar with growing up, BVM's even more so. For a lot of people this is a good thing and they look at the scanlines, colors, picture sharpness and ease of adjusting geometry/convergence and they fall in love.

If you're like me and like crt's as you remember them, with moderate scanlines, the dot pitch, light bleeding and blooming among other properties of consumer crt's, and you have time to hunt for the right sets and to put some work into them, then you can come out with a set that has close to as good colors as a PVM and close to as good geometry / convergence but without losing the crt's uniqueness. I learned this the hard way for a couple years going through multiple PVM/BVM's, don't get me wrong they're phenomenal pieces of hardware, but I was never quite satisfied with their performance for games.

[Xyga]

Well, I've seen outstanding PVM's though not looking that much different from what would be a superior consumer TV.
I've seen a BVM though (sorry don't remember which one it wasn't mine) that looked way beyond any consumer TV and therefore different, a bit too extreme for my taste. But this is what some people seek in a display.

[mvsfan]

i just saw a Jvc tv on craigslist. im definately interested in it.

the model no. is AV-36S33. according to jvc website it has 800 lines and is Sd.

[Taiyaki]

i just saw a Jvc tv on craigslist. im definately interested in it.

the model no. is AV-36S33. according to jvc website it has 800 lines and is Sd.

800 lines is a lot. I would definitely wait to find a 500 or 600 lines model, will look a lot less blocky. Unless you like the extremely fine picture that is.