Huge request: Could someone scan me the "Harmful Park" cover

[Samuray]

There wasn't room for the question mark in the header.

So I received the game today and was totally floored to see it was a loose copy. Had no idea.
Not sure I can even contact the seller properly as it was through a Japanese site. And even then, he won't have the inserts sitting around.

So my next option would be printing the front and back covers....no ideal by any means but it would soften the blow a little. There are no good scans on Google...would anyone help me out?

I hope game has some proper "sides" / "spines" on the sides....otherwise it would make things difficult with the back insert for me. But I don't know and don't have many Japanese PSX games for comparison sake yet.

I'm really down "a little". Please help me if you can!

Best
Samuray

[Koa Zo]

What site did you buy it from?

[Samuray]

What site did you buy it from?

I was being an idiot, I guess. Bought it from an Amazon JP seller through FromJapan, a proxy bidder. The translated text didn't specify "disc only" and the (stock) photo showed the game with csse but I should have been WAY more careful with Amazon marketplace offers.

If credibility is a problem I will gladly take a photo of my loose disc. Please help me if you can. Thank you!

[Koa Zo]

Yeah, I did wonder about the veracity of your story, but sounds legit.. I've always been cautious with Amazon used sellers - ask first and if they don't reply then don't buy.

I do have Harmful Park, however the decent price I paid was the result of a sun-faded cover.
And this may be dickish, but if I were to scan it I would place a small light watermark somewhere stating "reprint"

[Samuray]

Yeah, I did wonder about the veracity of your story, but sounds legit.. I've always been cautious with Amazon used sellers - ask first and if they don't reply then don't buy.

Absolutely, yes. That's the way I do it on Amazon.com and Amazon Germany. But with Amazon.co.jp there's the language barrier, and when buying it I didn't even realize it was Amazon at all....thought it was Yahoo Auctions or something and that the "photo" was accurate.
There's no way to contact sellers through those proxy sites as far as I know so one has to rely on description and pictures. Latter looked good and the text simply said "Harmful Park for PlayStation", or something.
As I said...it was quite stupid of me.

About the veracity of my account: Um....why would I make something like this up? I'm well aware there are reproductions of Neo Geo carts and even some Genesis games so I would understand a certain hesitation when it comes to these systems....but I have never heard of fake PSX games. At least not yet

I do have Harmful Park, however the decent price I paid was the result of a sun-faded cover.
And this may be dickish, but if I were to scan it I would place a small light watermark somewhere stating "reprint"

First: Of course you can do whatever you'd deem necessary. I'm asking for a huge favor here and can't exactly be picky.
But I also have to admit I'm no fan of watermarks. Had to print an insert for an Xbox 360 games once that came without a box (promotional copy) and when I realized it was watermarked by that cover site I looked for another and printed it again. But feel free to watermark away.

Would that even be necessary, though? I imagine it would be very clear when seeing the game in person that the inserts were self-printed? Not to mention the lack of the manual.

About the sunfade: Well, I'd take a faded cover over no cover any day.
Maybe some colors could be corrected/ intensified after scanning, though? It would probably depend what file format you'd send me/ upload.

I can promise you I'd never sell the game anyway so this wouldn't "raise the value" of the loose copy. Once I've got this game in a box with front and back insert it will stay with me.

Can't wait to play it, by the way! Couldn't get myself to do it while the game was without cover. Yeah, I'm peculiar.

[Ghegs]

This is how making illicit copies of expensive games start. I'm not saying you would be the culprit, but the high-resolution scan will eventually find its way into the wild. Put it through a good enough printer on a proper paper and it'll be tough to tell the difference. We have several threads about PC Engine's Sapphire fakes and how to identify them, for example.

The thing about such fakes is, we don't know if they're out there. For all we know, there's already somebody making Harmful Park reproductions, selling them slowly enough as to not arouse suspicion and flood the market. Maybe we just haven't found them out yet. And if they aren't out there, I see no reason to make it any easier for anyone to get started.

[Samuray]

Hmmm....I see your point. But we could make sure that at least THIS scan would not get out into the wild. I download it, print it, it gets deleted. No one else could get their hands on it. Don't some upload sites even offer password protection? Not sure, but still...how should anyone find that scan if it's not titled "Harmful Park" but "72635271635", or something like that, and would only be online for two hours or so?

I was hoping we were pretty certain there are no PSX reproductions out there, but it seems we just cannot know for sure. Wouldn't the black discs make things kind of difficult though? I don't think those are simply available for purchase. Or are they? Geez, I hope not.

[Samuray]

Oh, and if it helps to put some worries to rest, I will gladly take a picture of the disc next to a piece of paper with my name and username on it, and I can also provide screenshots from the proxy buyer invoice. Would rather send those via PM though, due to the personal data visible.

[qmish]

How much quality is too much? Is that 300 DPI quality you are talking about?

Do not let paranoia of reproductions turn you into dickheads, dammit. I mean, i understand if you refuse to upload high quality scans because of above reasons, but hope you aren't against doing nice cover picture of 1000x1000 px (guess it's ok size now to use as picture of cover of game on forums and websites now) to replace that old garbage upscaled from 300x300 px that is currently on GameFAQs and web in general.

Oh, and if it helps to put some worries to rest, I will gladly take a picture of the disc next to a piece of paper with my name and username on it, and I can also provide screenshots from the proxy buyer invoice.

Why do you think they would think you deal with piracy so you mus prove the opposite? They ask you about "where you ordered it" to put that seller in black list.

Goddamn, guys. I didn't even have a single thought about that "reproduction problem" when i started reading this thread. Guess, me personally is deeply touched by idea of saving legacy of videogame history, so i'm painfully seeing how so much covers of games are in shitty low quality you can't use in articles on sites (and they look bad even on small screens now , ah); same for things like flyers, print ads, and everything that will be fucking lost unless your digitize it and send to mobygames or psxdatacenter or smth.

[Ed Oscuro]

This isn't like a book where you can easily verify the text. Records of what's real and fake, especially with old OOP games whose original files are likely lost and certainly not easily checked, provides a difficult challenge to anybody who cares about preserving history. So, unfortunately, while there certainly is an economic angle to this, there's more to it than that. (And this from somebody who has scanned a few things in somewhat high resolution at one time - those scans having found their way back into some official products as representative of the product they came from.)

[Elixir]

What was the original Japanese text? Third party sellers aren't flawless, but they generally say if it's lacking something.

[Samuray]

Why do you think they would think you deal with piracy so you mus prove the opposite? They ask you about "where you ordered it" to put that seller in black list.

Well, Koa Zo said he was wondering about the veracity of my story and I figured that would go for more people on here as well. No big deal providing the proof if needed so I thought I'd offer.

What was the original Japanese text? Third party sellers aren't flawless, but they generally say if it's lacking something.

As I said, there was almost no text, just the title and "for PlayStation" or something like that.
Yes. I should have known. I didn't. Sure won't make that mistake again.

Well, anyway. If Koa Zo or anyone else would be willing to help me out with a scan of the front and back inserts with a high a resolution as everyone can feel comfortable with....that would be really great.

[Ed Oscuro]

This is the only group I can think of that has no trouble using emulators to play ripped ROMs of games of all kinds, yet bellyaches over a reprinted label to a legit game. Hm.

Some people will only eat fish during Lent. Complete and utter madness!!

I'm not gonna lose sleep if somebody has an obvious reprinted custom art (I have no financial stake in this either way) - but I don't see why people should feel they've got a duty or are hypocrits unless they provide the means for selling forgeries to unsuspecting buyers, even if it's done innocently. Right or wrong, there's a lot of money tied up in that. And, even more basically, it's just a matter of trying to be honest for the future, as I said before.

And also, you've seen nothing. I don't think Shmups Farmers are nearly as crazy about this stuff as people on some other forums.

[Ghegs]

This is the only group I can think of that has no trouble using emulators to play ripped ROMs of games of all kinds, yet bellyaches over a reprinted label to a legit game. Hm.

Number one, bit of a false equivalence there. You'll notice our Forum Rules clearly has "No ISO trading, ROM begging, copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these" categorized under the Not for discussion-label. And indeed, you won't find a single rom link anywhere here. Technically we could stop this discussion based on the that rule alone, but I think it's good to work through this properly.

Number two, that's a generalization. We have people with extensive collections for myriads of systems, we got people with PCBs coming out the wazoo. Saying we all just download roms and emulate everything is quite untrue.

And to the actual point, providing high-quality scans for people to make repros with has already caused problems in many gaming communities. Old games have a collector's market and they can have quite high monetary values, it's no wonder scammers are interested. The aforementioned PC Engine Sapphire fakes have been around for a long time, Neo Geo AES fakes are infamous, and NES fakes have been popping up for a while now. Even if the actual game can be difficult to reproduce (like PS1's black discs), it would be beneficial to source a loose copy and just slap newly printed manuals and other art on it and sell it as CIB.

[Magma Dragoon]

http://cdcovers.cc

[CStarFlare]

Not exactly high quality, but I'm impressed that they have something as obscure as Harmful Park.

Side question: wouldn't someone who really wanted to bootleg the game just buy a real copy, copy everything (including the manual in its entirety) and then sell the original+the fakes? It seems that what he's asking for doesn't really allow for the creation of credible bootlegs as he's not asking for disc art or the complete manual, both of which would be critical for a product that could be sold at full price.

[qmish]

Not exactly high quality, but I'm impressed that they have something as obscure as Harmful Park.

Actually, it's preety bad. Not a 200x200px disaster of MSX/FM TOWNS/PC98 game covers, but still not even good.

I'm not talking about pixel count - 600x600 px or whatever there is fine. But it's heavily compressed image, blurry, might be upscaled with bad filters from smaller size. There is no good picture of Harmful Park cover in internet. I'm not speaking about "printable" quality of opening post (that would be 300 dpi scan), i'm talking about having just a good cover pic that not shameful to represent a game when you post it on forums.

[Ghegs]

Side question: wouldn't someone who really wanted to bootleg the game just buy a real copy, copy everything (including the manual in its entirety) and then sell the original+the fakes? It seems that what he's asking for doesn't really allow for the creation of credible bootlegs as he's not asking for disc art or the complete manual, both of which would be critical for a product that could be sold at full price.

Sure, that's what a really dedicated bootlegger would do. But why make it easier for the not-so-dedicated ones? Why provide a piece of the puzzle? It's already possible to find tons of manuals scanned online. These were put up with good intentions, to preserve them and so that people could read the stories and instructions to their loose games, or games that have been recently re-released as digital downloads with only the barest of instructions included. That's another puzzle piece right there, and soon there's enough to make the whole thing.

There is no good picture of Harmful Park cover in internet. I'm not speaking about "printable" quality of opening post (that would be 300 dpi scan), i'm talking about having just a good cover pic that not shameful to represent a game when you post it on forums.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with GameFAQ's cover for that purpose. "This is what it looks like. If you happen to go to Japan and hunt retro games, look for this". Works just fine. You can't not recognize the game after seeing that image.

Just to be clear, I'm not against reproductions personally. But I'd want to them clearly labelled as such, with obvious watermarks to prevent anyone from trying to sell them as originals.

[Samuray]

Number one, bit of a false equivalence there. You'll notice our Forum Rules clearly has "No ISO trading, ROM begging, copyright infringement, or assistance with any of these" categorized under the Not for discussion-label. And indeed, you won't find a single rom link anywhere here. Technically we could stop this discussion based on the that rule alone, but I think it's good to work through this properly.

Yikes!!! I didn't even realize.
Didn't consider that the inserts are copyrighted as well. Of course they are. My mind just jumped to the software itself when I read that passage.
I'm very sorry about this....I should have contacted board moderation via email for approval before posting this.

And to the actual point, providing high-quality scans for people to make repros with has already caused problems in many gaming communities.

True, and I know you're speaking generally, but just want to reiterate that I'm not in the repro-making business, nor will I ever be.

Even if the actual game can be difficult to reproduce (like PS1's black discs), it would be beneficial to source a loose copy and just slap newly printed manuals and other art on it and sell it as CIB.

I wouldn't.
Sell it as CIB, or even sell it at all.

Sure, that's what a really dedicated bootlegger would do. But why make it easier for the not-so-dedicated ones?

I'm not a bootlegger....at least I hope not, after all this.

I get what you're saying, but again -- we wouldn't have to post the download link here publicly. This could all work through PM. Which would make the argument of preserving the art digitally kind of invalid but I did state my request as a (significant) personal favor.

Why provide a piece of the puzzle?

Wouldn't have to be a piece of any puzzle if we didn't make it available for repro scammers.
For me it would just allow me to appreciate my copy of the game, incomplete as it may be. If it remains the way it is I'm not sure what I'll do with it exactly.

[gray117]

Lack of preservation/demonstration/display of games and the culture/work surrounding them kills the appreciative fan in me.

But at the same time you do bump into these irreconcilable situations. I don't think anyone is accusing Samuray of anything intentionally underhand, but the this is exactly the kind of situation where the commercial, emotional and practical particulars of this media just unhelpfully collide.

Of course the paradoxical result of producing an 'original copy' means that it can be relatively easily copied - it's designed in this way. Thus, this is protected against first for commercial interests, and secondly for more emotive reasons on the part of the owner(s) of that experience.

In one sense - great - it's good these experiences command such respect and value. In another sense - too bad - how do we get to even see such things, let alone experience them as intended/or in full if we missed a window of opportunity, or weren't aware of it, or weren't even born in time?

A cover - it's such a little thing - yet also such a big thing, because there's only ever been a small yet very dedicated audience, whose value of the full experience has probably only been elevated by the increased value of the culture(s) surrounding it. Has that led this game becoming over-valued in many people's eyes? Perhaps so, but at the same time it's still worth a significant enough amount that Samuray wanted to own it, at what was probably still a reasonable expense...

That it is less than expected is a shame - especially if he can't return/refund it through the channels pursued.

Unfortunately, it's exactly for this reason that an original copy is so valued, and that something of a mania exists around prized examples.

If you consider Samuray's request to be cheeky, so too may you consider an owner of an original copy to be taking pleasure at Samuray's (and anyone else's) misfortune at not owning the full game. Whereas, the truth of it is that both are trying to protect (as far as possible) the extent of their valued experience of this game.

Now it might be that Samuray can not get a full as an experience for the value he places on the game and he's really unfortunate in this particular case - as is everyone else like me, to a lesser extent, who'd probably like the full thing, but only at a fraction of the going rate for an original copy.

...

It's agonizing because the original owner could release a digital art pack tomorrow presuming it hasn't been lost... Unfortunately, it's probably not been deemed to be worth the time to produce ... unless it cost something - and then it could just get copied anyway - so you'd have to release it alongside something less copy-able, but that people would still want, at the right price point, at which point the whole task likely becomes even more costly, or at least difficult, and thus not worth doing...

So instead it sits there, increasing the chance the source will end up getting lost if it hasn't been already.

And that's all presuming the entire thing isn't wrapped in any legal/personal difficulties over reproduction/ownership/distribution rights.

...

It's a shit situation to be in for Samuray and personally I'd be inclined to either accept a watermark and hold out for a nicer copy one day, or try a chargeback (or whatever) via your payment method - even if it's unlikely to work out in your favour - and resign yourself that a full copy will cost more (and likely eat the postage/service costs you spent to acquire the game should a refund for the actual disc come back to you). You certainly have my sympathy, but it is a pretty highly valued (/protected) game so I can understand the reluctance on the part of others.

[rjosal]

Question: I'm primarily an arcade collector. I've restored several machines with reproduction art and wood and t molding and capacitors and light bulbs and transistors, fly backs you name it. These type of restorations are generally applauded everywhere I can think of. But if you have a console game it is frowned upon to restore the label or other art. If there is a nonzero chance that a piece of game art is damaged or lost, eventually all copies will be lost. I rescued a Darius cab from the dumpster. It's quite rare and I would be sure it affects the market value. Why is it not ok to restore a console game?

[Lord Satori]

Guys, nobody's asking you to post it here in public for the world to see...

[Koa Zo]

My initial skepticism came from the way in which the whole scenario was presented. As in, a new member who has never posted here before present us with an unusual story and asks for a copy of part a high-value item. And yes I was also curious about the seller, perhaps to blacklist them.

Personally, if this happened to me and I had some mental block about owning or playing games without the manual/packaging, I would: A) return the game. Or if that wasn't possible, I'd: B) Sell the loose game and buy a complete copy.

Though after his explanation, if I had my Harmful Park on had (not in storage) I'd have already sent him a scan (with small watermark)

(...) Why is it not ok to restore a console game?

Because console games can be pirated in a manner that is not feasible with arcade cabinets.

edit: holy shit, I had no idea Harmful Park was sitting at the $350 range on eBay.

[rancor]

Because console games can be pirated in a manner that is not feasible with arcade cabinets.

I can't tell if you're serious or not...? In the same way the the OP is asking to reproduce a piece of his game, arcade fans ask for and get the same. You're aware that there are repro control panels, repro side art, and even repro ashtrays for sale on this very site?

[evil_ash_xero]

Maybe someone could scan it, but could put a small watermark in the corner or something?

[Lord Satori]

Or just PM the guy, like I was implying in my earlier post.

If he's legit like it seems he is, very few, if any, outside of the sender and the recipient will ever see it in its digital form.

[qmish]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with GameFAQ's cover for that purpose. "This is what it looks like. If you happen to go to Japan and hunt retro games, look for this". Works just fine. You can't not recognize the game after seeing that image.

In case with Harmful Park cover i disagree, because it's blurry and contains jpg compression. Hurts my eyes to look at
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/572983-harmf ... ges/113160

Though, of course, it's better than nothing; and much better than many cases with games for japanese computers, for example (i can't find any cover pics for some Sharp X68K games, or if i find they are 200px wide or something).
Still, i'd better post photo like this http://peanutbutterjammatime.com/2014/0 ... aystation/ than that cover pic because it looks much more beautiful, without compression artefacts (though it's a bit unfocused, but u dont notice unless you fullsize it).

[gray117]

Question: I'm primarily an arcade collector. I've restored several machines with reproduction art and wood and t molding and capacitors and light bulbs and transistors, fly backs you name it. These type of restorations are generally applauded everywhere I can think of. But if you have a console game it is frowned upon to restore the label or other art. If there is a nonzero chance that a piece of game art is damaged or lost, eventually all copies will be lost. I rescued a Darius cab from the dumpster. It's quite rare and I would be sure it affects the market value. Why is it not ok to restore a console game?

There's certainly a tipping point whereby acceptance for preservation - even applauding - of restoration/reproduction efforts. And another point at which - increasingly with arcades - where it's not feasible for everything to be 100% original. When cds and paper degrade likely that will start to be the case with all kinds of games... perhaps then we'll lament threads like this :/

Similarly no one's really going to care if you repro'd something like sonic 1 today because it's still so readily available, even as an 'original copy'... the game itself is also readily purchasable/accessible on other ports.

If for some reason only a few prototype copies of sonic existed anywhere, and sega didn't care about it commercially, then you probably would be applauded for restoring that sonic cart.

Is there a particular fetishtique value of home titles as a personal experience, as opposed to arcade titles as a shared/distributed/exhibition experience? ... Now that's probably true too - and probably takes on it's own importance when it comes to protecting/preserving that different value/experience.

[qmish]

Sorry for bumping again, but how about OP ask someone to design custom art for him? Someone from here http://vgboxart.com/ or from this very forums (guys with Quark/InDesign/Illustrator skills, r u here)

[Samuray]

I'm so sorry I didn't supply any updates....had my hands full the last couple of days.

Someone indeed helped my out - big thanks! - and provided me with scans. To ease everyone's concerns: The download link self-destructed after 24 hours (which is why I had to download it quickly after getting home from my night shift), the file was in addition to that password protected, and I deleted the files immediately after printing them.

Also I'm sure no one would mistake my game's inserts for original due to my printer's quality....but I am very happy this "Harmful Park" looks somewhat presentable now.

As I said, all files are destroyed and I'll never put my game up sale, so no worries!
And thank you so much, everyone! Not just for the eventual scans but also for the interesting discussion.