Capturing RGB. Can anyone help?

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Hi all. So I have all my consoles outputting RGB into a BVM. Amazing picture. I want to capture this whilst still playing on the BVM. I understand my only two options are the Startech USB 3.0 or the X-Capture1? Any others?

So. Here are my (many) issues.

My Laptop only has a 2.4ghz processor, 3gb of RAM and USB 2.0 ports. Will this be an issue and do I need a new PC?

Secondly. The X-capture1 is Japanese. Will my Euro scart devices work okay? And will the output to the BVM still work?

I'm told I need a sync strike. What is this, and where does it go in the setup?

As for the Startech. How do I get a second output from this device. I understand you need a YUV adpater. But the device itself doesn't have two outputs. Consider me stumped.

Sorry if these are terribly basic questions but I really want to capture gameplay properly and composite just isn't up to it. Although I'm close to buying and Elgato HD to save all this complication.

Anyway, any help is much appreciated. Thank you

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:17 pm

only two options are the Startech USB 3.0 or the X-Capture1? Any others?

If you upscale between the output and the capture you can use almost any USB HDMI capture device with live encoding.
The problem with native capture in the original 15khz resolution is that using a modern codec like x264 reduces your color resolution and visibly decreases your quality. Really depends on what you want to do with your captures and what quality you expect. There are those cheap Scart RGB to HDMI converters and their quality isn't this bad. Easily good enough for streaming if that's what you want. This is a video captured with a $50 Scart to HDMI converter: https://youtu.be/Qge73sb9hM8?t=17m19s

My Laptop only has a 2.4ghz processor, 3gb of RAM and USB 2.0 ports. Will this be an issue and do I need a new PC?

you cannot use that one for a USB3 capture device. The amount of data with USB3 capture is huge.

Secondly. The X-capture1 is Japanese. Will my Euro scart devices work okay? And will the output to the BVM still work? I'm told I need a sync strike. What is this, and where does it go in the setup?

the Sync Strike is an adapter from Euro Scart to DSub15 and it includes a sync stripper.

Anyway, any help is much appreciated. Thank you

Check the video above. If this kind of quality is good enough for you, forget about the USB3 capture devices and get an Elgato along with a Scart to HDMI converter instead.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Fudoh wrote:
only two options are the Startech USB 3.0 or the X-Capture1? Any others?
If you upscale between the output and the capture you can use almost any USB HDMI capture device with live encoding.
The problem with native capture in the original 15khz resolution is that using a modern codec like x264 reduces your color resolution and visibly decreases your quality. Really depends on what you want to do with your captures and what quality you expect. There are those cheap Scart RGB to HDMI converters and their quality isn't this bad. Easily good enough for streaming if that's what you want. This is a video captured with a $50 Scart to HDMI converter: https://youtu.be/Qge73sb9hM8?t=17m19s

My Laptop only has a 2.4ghz processor, 3gb of RAM and USB 2.0 ports. Will this be an issue and do I need a new PC?
you cannot use that one for a USB3 capture device. The amount of data with USB3 capture is huge.

Secondly. The X-capture1 is Japanese. Will my Euro scart devices work okay? And will the output to the BVM still work? I'm told I need a sync strike. What is this, and where does it go in the setup?
the Sync Strike is an adapter from Euro Scart to DSub15 and it includes a sync stripper.

Anyway, any help is much appreciated. Thank you
Check the video above. If this kind of quality is good enough for you, forget about the USB3 capture devices and get an Elgato along with a Scart to HDMI converter instead.

Thanks Fudoh. I remember you helping me big time with my BVM setup back along. Yes that quality is perfectly good enough for what I want ( just uploading a few gameplays to Youtube). So the only question I now have is can I split the RGB so that I can still play it on my CRT?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:30 pm

So the only question I now have is can I split the RGB so that I can still play it on my CRT?

you would use the loop outputs on your BVM.

video source > BVM > upscaler > capture box > PC

If you check your BVM's RGB input on the back you can see that each single BNC input has a dedicated loop output BNC port.

It's possible that the upscaler requires a switching voltage to recognize the RGB signal. This is something you have to check before you get the adapter cable to connect your BVM's output to any uspcaler.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:22 pm

Fudoh wrote:
So the only question I now have is can I split the RGB so that I can still play it on my CRT?
you would use the loop outputs on your BVM.

video source > BVM > upscaler > capture box > PC

If you check your BVM's RGB input on the back you can see that each single BNC input has a dedicated loop output BNC port.

It's possible that the upscaler requires a switching voltage to recognize the RGB signal. This is something you have to check before you get the adapter cable to connect your BVM's output to any uspcaler.

Okay so I would need another BNC to RGB Scart breakout cable from the BVM's output going into the upscaler. If the upscaler did require a voltage how would I fix this? Thanks again

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:30 pm

Okay so I would need another BNC to RGB Scart breakout cable from the BVM's output going into the upscaler.

yes, but these are one direction only, so is has to be BNC to Scart, not the other way around.

If the upscaler did require a voltage how would I fix this? Thanks again

with a battery attached to the breakout cable.

AndehX · Post by **AndehX** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:31 pm

Definitely the easiest and cheapest method is to use the BNC pass through on the BVM as stated above.
My setup is a little different since my PVM doesn't have pass through for RGB. So instead I use a Scart distribution amplifier to split the RGB scart. Then I have one output going to my PVM via scart to BNC adapter and another output going to my XRGB mini which converts it to HDMI. From there you can use any HDMI capture device. Doesn't have to be an xcapture1.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:35 pm

Fudoh wrote:
Okay so I would need another BNC to RGB Scart breakout cable from the BVM's output going into the upscaler.
yes, but these are one direction only, so is has to be BNC to Scart, not the other way around.

If the upscaler did require a voltage how would I fix this? Thanks again
with a battery attached to the breakout cable.

Any ideas where can I buy a bnc to scart cable? And a powered one if possible? Also, in terms of upscaler, would this very cheap one do the trick? http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/vga-and-rgb-w ... rter-n52qk

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:36 pm

AndehX wrote:Definitely the easiest and cheapest method is to use the BNC pass through on the BVM as stated above.
My setup is a little different since my PVM doesn't have pass through for RGB. So instead I use a Scart distribution amplifier to split the RGB scart. Then I have one output going to my PVM via scart to BNC adapter and another output going to my XRGB mini which converts it to HDMI. From there you can use any HDMI capture device. Doesn't have to be an xcapture1.

Yeah I'm such an idiot it hadn't even crossed my mind to do it this way. Out of interest do you have a link to the scart distribution amplifier that you use?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:38 pm

Any ideas where can I buy a bnc to scart cable?

has to be custom made. Since you're in the UK I guess retrogamingcables would help you out.

Also, in terms of upscaler, would this very cheap one do the trick?

no, there are many really really bad ones out there, so don't take your chances. Get this one (HDV-8S). That's the one used for the Thunder Force video above. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0092IAA3I

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:42 pm

Fudoh wrote:
Any ideas where can I buy a bnc to scart cable?
has to be custom made. Since you're in the UK I guess retrogamingcables would help you out.

Also, in terms of upscaler, would this very cheap one do the trick?
no, there are many really really bad ones out there, so don't take your chances. Get this one (HDV-8S). That's the one used for the Thunder Force video above. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0092IAA3I

Okay will grab it now. I assume it being powered means I don't need voltage on the break out cable either? And I'll email Retro Gaming Cables but I guess if they're no use I could go the scart distribution route

AndehX · Post by **AndehX** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:01 pm

Huggers wrote:Out of interest do you have a link to the scart distribution amplifier that you use?

They're not cheap, so don't expect to pay any less than about £80 for one, if you can even find one. They are becoming extremely rare. I think you can, however, order one from Shinybow. This is the one I use: http://www.shinybow.eu/eshop/p-78/k-23/ ... -scart-1x4

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:08 pm

AndehX wrote:
Huggers wrote:Out of interest do you have a link to the scart distribution amplifier that you use?
They're not cheap, so don't expect to pay any less than about £80 for one, if you can even find one. They are becoming extremely rare. I think you can, however, order one from Shinybow. This is the one I use: http://www.shinybow.eu/eshop/p-78/k-23/ ... -scart-1x4

Thanks dude. That looks the business. I'm thinking I might go this route just so I can still capture footage should my BVM go wrong in the future

AndehX · Post by **AndehX** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:08 pm

Fudoh wrote:Get this one (HDV-8S). That's the one used for the Thunder Force video above. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0092IAA3I

I personally would recommend you avoid this one too. I have one, and it seems to add too much contrast to the image.
Heres an example:

On my PVM:
http://imageshack.com/f/hlXYuwMzj

On the SCART to HDMI converter:
http://imageshack.com/f/p7mO6E3Aj

As you can see, alot of the image is washed out because of the contrast saturation.
I'd recommend trying something else.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:17 pm

There's nothing else at this price that performs even closely. Also it behaves a bit different on low-res 15khz content. Your source was 480i I guess.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:05 am

AndehX wrote:
Fudoh wrote:Get this one (HDV-8S). That's the one used for the Thunder Force video above. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0092IAA3I
I personally would recommend you avoid this one too. I have one, and it seems to add too much contrast to the image.
Heres an example:

On my PVM:
http://imageshack.com/f/hlXYuwMzj

On the SCART to HDMI converter:
http://imageshack.com/f/p7mO6E3Aj

As you can see, alot of the image is washed out because of the contrast saturation.
I'd recommend trying something else.

Fudoh wrote:There's nothing else at this price that performs even closely. Also it behaves a bit different on low-res 15khz content. Your source was 480i I guess.

Thannks guys. That's all good, especially for that price. Plus nearly all my content will be 15hz stuff.

One more question. Would this cable do the trick for splitting the scart signal, one to the BVM and the other to the Upscaler>Capture device?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-scart- ... -15m-a88ny

Guspaz · Post by **Guspaz** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:22 pm

Why use a split cable that might impact signal strength instead of just using the outputs on the BVM?

AndehX · Post by **AndehX** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:03 pm

Fudoh wrote:There's nothing else at this price that performs even closely. Also it behaves a bit different on low-res 15khz content. Your source was 480i I guess.

480i yes. I don't have anything that outputs 15khz signals.

Huggers wrote:One more question. Would this cable do the trick for splitting the scart signal, one to the BVM and the other to the Upscaler>Capture device?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-scart- ... -15m-a88ny

No, you will experience severe darkening of the image, almost to the point where you can't see anything.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:22 pm

Guspaz wrote:Why use a split cable that might impact signal strength instead of just using the outputs on the BVM?

Yeah it's a fair point. I guess I was trying to find a work around that would work regardless of whether my BVM was still going or not.

AndehX wrote: No, you will experience severe darkening of the image, almost to the point where you can't see anything.

Yeah I had feared this might be the case. Thanks

Anyway grabbed the Elgato in a Black Friday deal so I'm on the way to getting it sorted

Guspaz · Post by **Guspaz** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:32 pm

Huggers wrote:I guess I was trying to find a work around that would work regardless of whether my BVM was still going or not.

The outputs on BVM/PVM work regardless of if the TV is turned on or not.

AndehX · Post by **AndehX** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:21 pm

Guspaz wrote:
Huggers wrote:I guess I was trying to find a work around that would work regardless of whether my BVM was still going or not.
The outputs on BVM/PVM work regardless of if the TV is turned on or not.

Yes this is true. The passthrough on my PVM works even when its turned off.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:27 am

Cheers for all the assistance chaps. Going to go the output from my BVM route. Even managed to find the cable needed for the output I think. https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/son ... rter-cable

Can't see why that wouldn't work?

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:55 pm

Hi guys so I've hit a snag. I can capture the SNES fine. Snes RGB into BVM. BVM outputs into upscaler, upscaler into capture device. But NES, Mega Drive. They all are in either black and white or they don't work at all. Is this a sync issue? How do I fix this?

AndehX · Post by **AndehX** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:10 pm

if you're not getting an image at all, then its probably a sync issue that an LM1881 can fix. Black and white could possible be caused by and NTSC signal on a PAL only display, or vice versa.

blizzz · Post by **blizzz** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:18 pm

AndehX wrote:Black and white could possible be caused by and NTSC signal on a PAL only display, or vice versa.

That shouldn't be an issues with an RGB setup though.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:23 pm

Thank you guys. Okay so I removed my 50/60hz switchable Mega Drive and replaced it with my PAL one. It now works great. My NTSC RGB NES though I can't get anything from.

On closer inspection. The NES seems to flick the upscaler between PAL and NTSC, like it doesn't know what to be in. How can I fix this? Oddly my NTSC Snes works fine

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:04 pm

sounds to me as if your capture was recording composite video and not RGB. It gets a video signal from the sync line on your SNES and MD.

This can happen when you're missing a switching voltage on the Scart input.

Huggers · Post by **Huggers** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:13 pm

Fudoh wrote:sounds to me as if your capture was recording composite video and not RGB. It gets a video signal from the sync line on your SNES and MD.

This can happen when you're missing a switching voltage on the Scart input.

Would a Sync strike fix this issue? Whats the easiest way to get voltage on the input?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:24 pm

First try a direct recording - without the BVM in the middle to see if that's actually the problem.

Would a Sync strike fix this issue? Whats the easiest way to get voltage on the input?

no, a Sync Strike wouldn't help you with that. An UMSA might (also from Arcadeforge). In general it's as I stated above. You need a power supply. You can use a battery or a 5V PSU. Needs to be connected to pin 16 (+) and ground (-) of the Scart cable that's going into your capture device. Since the capture devices already uses a 5V PSU you could do a simply little mod to power the switching voltage from it's own PSU.

korpse413 · Post by **korpse413** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:34 am

Huggers I am in this exact same boat, wanting to capture from my BVM as well. After reading over this post I am running into some confusion. We are going into the BVMs inputs via scart-to-bnc right? Why the fixation with making scart come back out the output? I'm over in the States (not sure where you are from) and scart isn't exactly native to us, we just snag it for best 240p signal. But once we have that as a source we can just use one of these guys right? Seems cost effective at 8 bucks, and I already had one for using my Dreamcast with my BVM. I suppose like you were saying if you want to use an upscaler as last piece before the capture device it might be easier for you that way.

As for needing a sync strike, if you are already using CSYNC scart cables from your consoles the strike would be a redundancy no? I was under the impression that a sync strike is to change another sync like composite video + sync to csync? I still haven't completed my capture setup yet, but once I do I will be sure to get back to the previous threads where I've asked questions (including this one) with pictures / updates. But as for what is in my head for a setup it will be:

game console with scart csync > scart-to-bnc into BVM input > BVM output with that vga cable I linked above > capture card such as PEXHDCAP with vga to dvi adapter

shmups.system11.org

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