Tobonomu Itagaki lists Image Fight among his favorite games

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:28 pm

http://teamninja.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144194

The boss of Team Ninja at Tecmo made a list of his five favorite (and least favorite) games, and put Image Fight as one of his choices. Which might explain the masochistic difficulty of Ninja Gaiden on XBox...

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:36 pm

That top 5 hated games list is hilarious.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:42 pm

This is why I love Itagaki, even if I'm not a huge fan of his games as a whole. The man clearly loves gaming, he's got the balls to say what he thinks is wrong with it, and he's got the experience to back that up.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:43 pm

Hate all those Tekken games, LOL!!!

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:46 am

sethsez wrote:This is why I love Itagaki, even if I'm not a huge fan of his games as a whole. The man clearly loves gaming, he's got the balls to say what he thinks is wrong with it, and he's got the experience to back that up.

Except he doesn't have the reputation to back his words. Now how many DOA games outsold Tekken games?

Anyway, yeah, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw that as well. Image Fight is obviously one of the best memory challenge games ever.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:01 am

How many awards did Nina: Death by Degrees get?

I'm not saying he's the best developer ever or anything, but his opinion and observations on the industry have far more weight to them than those of anyone here (or most anywhere else on the internet). It generally seems that the more qualified someone is to judge the state of the industry and the quality of the games coming out, the more reluctant they are to do so. Someone like Miyamoto isn't willing to say "this game sucks" and most people who do complain about games have absolutely no experience in making them or working in the industry.

That's why I see him as a bit of a breath of fresh air.

bluberry · Post by **bluberry** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:16 am

BAHA that worst five list ruled. And yeah I agree with the sentiment that it'd be interesting to see more developers listing off their favorites/least favorites with the minimal tact of Itagaki.

I wonder what Hideo Kojima's favorite games would be?

Kojima: "Dr. Strangelove, 2001, Seven Samu--"
Interviewer: "Those are movies."
Kojima: "...so that's what I've been doing wrong all these years..."

Arcatech · Post by **Arcatech** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:21 am

I'd rather play Tekken over DOA and time.

Its sort of convenient how his least fav games are all direct competition for him.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:24 am

AFXisatwin wrote:I'd rather play Tekken over DOA and time.

Its sort of convenient how his least fav games are all direct competition for him.

Doesn't change the fact that I'd like to see Miyamoto say "you know what? The new Sonic games suck."

Of course, the only Tekken I like is the third one, and even then I still think it's the dullest fighting series out there.

Arcatech · Post by **Arcatech** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:28 am

Ya, I guess its cool that he's putting his opinion out there, but it seems like a publicity stunt more than anything.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:41 am

I agree with him on Pikmin. 1 & 2 -- I love them both. They are off the charts. Simple and fun.

As for Tekken 1-5 sucking... well... yeah, they suck. But the only thing DOA has going for it is gigantic, jiggly tits. They need a fighting system that requries some thought. From what little of Tekken i've played, it's system is even more intuitive, and of course, Virtua Fighter blows both of them out of the water. The downside -- Virtua Fighter won't be able to be played online (properly) for geneations.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:42 am

AFXisatwin wrote:I'd rather play Tekken over DOA and time.

Its sort of convenient how his least fav games are all direct competition for him.

That's sorta the point...

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:32 am

bluberry wrote:BAHA that worst five list ruled. And yeah I agree with the sentiment that it'd be interesting to see more developers listing off their favorites/least favorites with the minimal tact of Itagaki.

I wonder what Hideo Kojima's favorite games would be?

Kojima: "Dr. Strangelove, 2001, Seven Samu--"
Interviewer: "Those are movies."
Kojima: "...so that's what I've been doing wrong all these years..."

I an interview some times ago (prior to MGS3 release iirc) Kojima said that lately he had spent a lot of time on his gba playing famicom mini... Xevious.

Yep, you heard it right. He used to be a huge Xevious fan, and said that playing that game was one of the reasons for he to work in the game's industry.

He said also that of course he realize that the gba Xevious has little to say to today's gamers, but for the ones who were there it has kept all the magic.

So you see, not only Kojima makes better games than Itagaki, he also has much better taste for shmups!

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:55 am

Xevious bores the hell out of me.

Then again, so does Image Fight.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:39 am

Turrican wrote:So you see, not only Kojima makes better games than Itagaki, he also has much better taste for shmups!

True, that.

Not to mention, three words...

ZOE2. Vic. Viper.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:14 am

I dunno.. his crticisms are way too focussed and unconstructive..

and I think tekken shat all over the DOA series.

agony · Post by **agony** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:01 am

Tekken and DOA are both crap :/

Zigfried the Trizealot · Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:08 am

Hm, pretty much everything Itagaki says looks to be true.

//Zig

PepsimanVsJoe · Post by **PepsimanVsJoe** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:45 am

To be honest the majority of the Tekken series is forgettable.

Tekken 5 is great but it sort of falls apart when you realize the game is simply about waiting for your opponent to whiff a move and then punishing them for a 50% damage combo. It's certainly nowhere near as dynamic and entertaining as VF. Still on the fence regarding DoA however as they are making a large number of gameplay fixes for part 4.

And didn't anyone else think it was funny that the exact same move was shown in all five Tekken screenshots?

Oh and the man is responsible for Ninja Gaiden Xbox, IMO one of the best action games I've ever played.

DoA Volleyball is also a guilty pleasure of mine

yyr · Post by **yyr** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:02 pm

I thought it a bit strange that he says graphics are "the whole point," then cited Dragon Quest/Warrior II as being one of his favorite games.

I also couldn't help but laugh when the Phoenix Smasher was pictured for all 5 Tekkens.

But the simple fact of the matter (and the reason for his hatred) is this: the DOA series will NEVER be as deep and entertaining as Tekken. It sucks that Tekken 5 has no online play, and for that reason I've been playing DOA2 more, but... why do you think Evolution 2005--the biggest fighting game tournament in the world AFAIK--used both Tekken5 and Tekken Tag, and DOA was MIA?

Oh yeah, and he doesn't like Tekken's numbering system and spinoffs? Puh-leeze. He counts backwards, for crying out loud. 1, 2, 3... 2. And what's with that volleyball thing? =\

To summarize... Itagaki's team may produce good games, but when he runs his mouth, he's a grade-A moron.

benstylus · Post by **benstylus** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:14 pm

Ugh - Itagaki's an arrogant pompous loudmouth.

I think Tecmo's released in the past 5 years have been pretty much garbage. The DOA games are quite poor when compared to Soul Calibur or Virtua Fighter (though about on par with Tekken). I found Ninja Gaiden to be the most disappointing game of 2004. I love difficult games, but when the difficulty arrives from "cheap hits" that drains the fun out of it and the only challenge becomes forcing myself to play through it.

Apart from perhaps the Fatal Frame games (I haven't played them, so I can't comment), all their other stuff has sucked.

And here Itagaki's wasting an interview by taking yet more pot shots at Namco and their Tekken Franchise instead of being thoughtful and giving a real answer. Way to craft a response out of spite for a competing product rather than give the truly bad games their due.

It's especially aggravating because in the Winter 2002 issue of XBN, Itagaki had this to say:

Tekken 1 was good. Tekken 2 was better, and Tekken 3 even better than that. My family are big fans of Tekken 3!

So he's changed from saying the games are good to them being his top 5 hated games of all time! In the XBN interview, he then says:

But Tekken 4 just did not push the genre at all. Such lazy development.

DOA games have NEVER pushed the genre. Way to be a hypocrite, Itakagi.

I'm not trying to defend Tekken - I think it's average at best. But there are a lot of games that are downright horrible, and when an industry "professional" like Itagaki only wants to throw a childish tyrade against Tekken, it bothers me.

I also disagree with graphics being the whole point. Great graphics can enhance a great game, but they can't hide a shoddy one.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:34 pm

Q: Did you analyse other products to create this game?
Hiroshi Iuchi: About every other shooting game created until now. I guess the one that comes the most to mind is "Image Fight". But I won't go into detail about other sources of inspiration, because they are way too numerous.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:34 pm

benstylus wrote:Ugh - Itagaki's an arrogant pompous loudmouth.

I think Tecmo's released in the past 5 years have been pretty much garbage. The DOA games are quite poor when compared to Soul Calibur or Virtua Fighter (though about on par with Tekken). I found Ninja Gaiden to be the most disappointing game of 2004. I love difficult games, but when the difficulty arrives from "cheap hits" that drains the fun out of it and the only challenge becomes forcing myself to play through it.

Zah? There's no such thing as "cheap hits" in Ninja Gaiden. The only way that game seems cheap is if you have no grasp of the mechanics involved in it.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:38 pm

benstylus wrote:It's especially aggravating because in the Winter 2002 issue of XBN, Itagaki had this to say:

Tekken 1 was good. Tekken 2 was better, and Tekken 3 even better than that. My family are big fans of Tekken 3!

So he's changed from saying the games are good to them being his top 5 hated games of all time

Nicely spotted. Seems disingenuous indeed.

benstylus · Post by **benstylus** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:45 pm

Acid King wrote: Zah? There's no such thing as "cheap hits" in Ninja Gaiden. The only way that game seems cheap is if you have no grasp of the mechanics involved in it.

I don't consider enemies hitting you from offscreen a game mechanic.

Once I could actually SEE them I had no problem with them. Well, except the bosses. They were tough.

I think the NES Ninja Gaiden games are all better than the travesty on the Xbox.

Thunder Force wrote:
benstylus wrote:It's especially aggravating because in the Winter 2002 issue of XBN, Itagaki had this to say:

Tekken 1 was good. Tekken 2 was better, and Tekken 3 even better than that. My family are big fans of Tekken 3!

So he's changed from saying the games are good to them being his top 5 hated games of all time
Nicely spotted. Seems disingenuous indeed.

In that same interview, he also claims that DOA3 is a better game than Virtua Fighter 4.

Itagaki strikes me as the kind of man who's just out there to push his own products. This would be fine, except the only way he knows how is by attacking his competitors.

PepsimanVsJoe · Post by **PepsimanVsJoe** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:19 pm

There's plenty of audio clues that indicate when an enemy will attack from off-screen. Other than that it's all knowing your environment. As you play you'll know where enemies are even when you can't see them and you will be able to react to them accordingly.

Or you could just go to a forum and say the creators suck.

http://www.iberiansninjagaiden.com/

Check out the Path of the Master Ninja stage 4 vids in the Ninja Gaiden Black section. Despite having four to five ninjas hopping around this way and that you can see the player methodically (and in a way boring as he overuses the ultimate attacks) taking everyone out.

If you can't deal with off-screen enemies I doubt you'd have fun playing any 3D action game because it happens all the damn time.

The Dead or Alive series on the other hand I'm not sure about. It's fun and at the same time I don't care if the game is "tourney-worthy" or not. Hell there's a lot of games that aren't at EVO that I love(Vampire Savior and Street Fighter Alpha 3 being two of them). From the latest vids the game honestly looks closer to martial arts films in game form than ever, and if nothing else I'll have some kickass replays to save and watch.

And Itagaki's brashness is half the fun about his games. I buy them simply to support a guy that does such entertaining interviews. Beats the wishy-washy types like Miyamoto.
--------------
And don't worry I haven't forgotten about your games or anybody else's. I just stupidly made a sale thread when I have 0 free time, I'll get everything out as soon as I can.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:26 pm

Enemies off screen/camera troubles is one of those things with 3D Action Games. One of those cases where they should stick to 2D because action games work best there.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:55 pm

benstylus wrote: I don't consider enemies hitting you from offscreen a game mechanic.

But you do consider the fact that there is a block button and the fact that simply pressing the button will block most any attack from any angle a game mechanic, right?

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:51 pm

yyr wrote:I thought it a bit strange that he says graphics are "the whole point," then cited Dragon Quest/Warrior II as being one of his favorite games.

Why? Graphically, the game is very clean and quite unique in spots. The graphics don't hinder it at all.

Besides, he also said: we always try to make the playability as good as we can, because that's the whole reason for the existence of videogames.

Gaming is primarilly a visual medium. Saying that graphics are the most important part doesn't mean they have to be flashy, but it's an acknowledgement that 99% of the information we're given through the game happens with the graphics, so they carry a large amount of the burden. A game with confused, jumbled or entirely unappealing graphics will be confused, jumbled or unappealing.

Essentially, it's like saying "writing is the most important aspect of a novel." Well, really, the novel exists for the story, but it's conveyed entirely through the writing. It's the bottleneck that everything else has to squeeze through.

MichiyoNoShiroIV · Post by **MichiyoNoShiroIV** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:21 pm

If Itagaki loves nintendo so much why doesn't he make games for them too?

I love DOA becuase it's easy for anybody to pick it up play it and enjoy. More than what can be said about Tekken.

The only good Tekken was Tekken 2.

shmups.system11.org

Tobonomu Itagaki lists Image Fight among his favorite games

Tobonomu Itagaki lists Image Fight among his favorite games

Ehhh..

Eh?