wrong polarity with VP30 and SLG3000?

[telemetry]

Having tested my SLG3000 separately with my PC, I know that it's working correctly. I was excited to use it with my Saturn, however I can't seem to get the scanlines working correctly with my VP30:

Saturn [RGBS] > VP30 > BNC out to VGA > SLG3000 > AudioAuthority 9A60 > Component to HDTV.

The individual devices function correctly (VP+9A60, SLG+9A60 tested with PC), but the SLG doesn't seem to work correctly with the VP30 output (set to 480p).

The only behavior I've seen is that increasing the intensity (V2 SLG with the potscrew on the side) just seems to "darken" the image. I've tried switching the S4/S5 dips (including ON/ON with 720p output) but all I get is the "darkening" behavior.

The VP30 supports sync-switching, but I can't quite figure out how to make use of it — the default setting (bi-level) works with my setup, but none of the H+/V+/H-/V- options seem to operate correctly with my 9A60 (my TV just reads "no signal").

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 66#p654966
I've seen from reading in the SLG3000 thread that the "brightness" behavior is a sign of incorrect polarity, however I can't seem to switch the polarity (I assume to H+/V-) with my setup, or the 9A60 or TV refuse to handshake.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 19#p649219
In one post, Fudoh mentions that the voltage levels of the DVDO (he's referring to the VP50 here) devices are too high, causing wavy interference patterns with the SLG (indeed that's what I see in solid backgrounds through my 9A60). He mentions using an Extron RGB interface to avoid this.

Am I having a polarity problem with the SLG+VP30? None of the sync polarity options seem to work directly with my 9A60...Would adding an Extron RGB interface in-between help make this work?

[Fudoh]

You should really work this out step by step. Try the whole setup on a VGA display first, figure out the correct sync polarity settings and then try adding the AA. If this doesn't work (it should though), then you can still go the VGA to HDMI route.

An Extron interface can help you to switch back the polarities after you're run through the SLG.

[telemetry]

I've tried it six ways to Sunday with my LG 22" LCD, with Saturn > VP30-BNC > SLG > LCD. I've also tried my PC > SLG > LCD, which works great at a variety of resolutions (600p, 720p, 768p, etc.)

But when I'm using the VP30>SLG>LCD, again the SLG shows the same behavior as the 9A60>HDTV — it just darkens the brightness of the image. This happens regardless of the dip switches or the output format of the VP30 (480p, 720p, 640x480, 768p, etc.)

I can't get any of the VP30's sync options to work (H+V+,H+V-,H-V+,H-V-) with my LCD monitor. Only the default "bi-level" successfully displays an image, which gives the SLG behavior above.

Oddly the red LED light on my SLG shines brightly when I set the VP30 to H+V-; every other setting just gives it a faint glow. I assume this is a good sign that's the optimal sync polarity for the VP30's output with the SLG. I can't confirm it unfortunately since no display I have will process the VP30's output once I alter the sync.

So my next step at this point would be to use an interface to switch back the polarity between the SLG and the display?

[beharius]

AA 9A60 can't display the scanlines, like you said only adds darkness.

[Fudoh]

AA 9A60 can't display the scanlines, like you said only adds darkness.

in general ? I was under the impression that some transcoders incl. the AA can handle them. My Kramer "deletes" scanlines. No darkening, nothing, it really just removes all scanlines (SLG-based ones, not XRGB-ones).

[beharius]

I haven't got proper scanlines through component yet, both on 9A60 and the newer 9A60A, tested some other ICs for this reason, nada. Probably there needs to be a modification for its sync combiner, for polarity. I couldn't find time to work on that.

[Xyga]

It can ! It's just a delicate balance and you need to find the right settings and sweet spot. I'll have a look at it tomorrow for you (i have the same gear).

[telemetry]

Sure, any notes would be helpful — I grabbed the 9A60 since it was pretty well praised here, with the idea to use it with an SLG originally from this post: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p1090700

If this doesn't work I could still look into a VGA > HDMI solution at some point like a Manhattan or Gefen.

[telemetry]

Still no go with my VP30 after several days — either with my 9A60 or a dedicated VGA monitor.

Assuming again the SLG indicates (via the LED) that the optimal polarity is inversed H+V-, I seem to need some sort of adapter that will reverse the polarity into something my TV (or 9A60) can understand.

Seems like the route is convoluted at this point. From the VP30, I can think of the following:

1. (VGA) SLG > Gefen
This is the suggested route from Fudoh's page (conclusion of the XRGB-Mini review) for scanlines with VP30. Can it account for sync inversion? Seems the simplest (in terms of setup) route.

2. (HDMI) HDFury3 > SLG > Gefen? > TV (mentioned in the SLG main thread, the HDFury2 doesn't work)

HDFury3 is reported to handle reversed polarities, except it's HDMI>VGA. The VP30 can change sync polarity in HDMI mode (not sure if that's a standard feature of HDMI) too, so presumably I would use the HDMI output. Essentially I would treat the VP30 like a DVDO Edge.

3. (VGA) SLG > [Extron RGB interface?] > Manhattan/HDMI > TV
An extron interface could be used to revert the polarity to something my displays understand. Do all Extrons support this? I've seen RGB192s and RGB203s on EBay, but the dip-settings include a few acronyms I'm not familiar with (DDSP?) and don't mention sync inversion. Would still require an additional HDMI processing step.

[Xyga]

Sorry I couldn't find enough time to check it myself, maybe tonight or tomorrow.

[Xyga]

So I've tried and fuck me you're right it won't show any lines !

Same story with the vp50pro, something is going wrong in the chain, indeed.

Tried all resolutions in *480, sync modes, dip switches, and fiddling with h/v shifting; nope, nothing.

I can tell the 9A60 works fine with the XRGB-2 and XRGB-3 plus an SLG3000 in the chain (for scanlines over 480i) so I'm not sure the transcoder is to blame here (?)

[telemetry]

Well f***.

Hmm...if the 9A60 works with the SLG in other circumstances then it seems like maybe it's a VP-specific polarity issue rather than a general SLG/9A60 incompatibility.

In this case, perhaps the simplest route would be an HDFury off of the HDMI output — that's known to work well with the DVDO Edge at least, and then you could send the VGA straight back to the 9A60.

(Would be simpler than buying at least two of an interface and a VGA>HDMI converter).

[Xyga]

Wait, it's working now, I have no idea why !

Wanted to try a different source (only tried with a switched pal MD first) so I've wired a chipped pal PS1 with an ntsc game... and it worked, 480p or VGA, either with H+/V- or H-/H-.

I have performed a couple hard resets on the VP30 (wanted to try with and without abt102: no diff) and unplugged/replugged all devices at least one or two times.

Other than that my settings on both VP's are pretty normal, input component 1, output BNC 480p or VGA, sync as I described, color RGB.
Framerate locked or unlocked depending on the VP and the source.
AA potentiometer all the way counterclockwise, SLG with either pin 4 or 5 on.

I seriously can't tell what happened exactly, but the VP's can be very capricious machines, sometimes things will or will not work depending on what order you powered the various machines in the chain on, or a bad cable, old firmware, uncooperative display, and of course the settings.
As Fudoh suggested; do it step-by-step, re-check everything.

PS: the SLG can induce signal/sync loss if you set the lines too dark. I don't know about the variables but sometimes I can push the SLG's potentiometer to only about 50%, beyond that the picture goes crazy or simply disappears.
It's not alway true though, I was able to max out once with the MD and vp50pro.

[telemetry]

No dice, after another session of unplugging and replugging the devices in various orders. :-\ Same settings as your VP & SLG with my Saturn [RGB] to component 1.

Agreed on the capriciousness, I probably just can't hit the "lucky" sequence to make the chain work correctly. (By the by, when you say "hard reset" on the VP, you mean just unplugging & plugging it back in I assume.)

It may also deal with the slightly different AA models, but I have no potentiometer (that I can see externally) on my AA. 9A60 here, not 9A60A.

I'll update here if I have any breakthroughs. Thanks for the research!

[Xyga]

Nope, as hard reset I mean plug while holding the front 'menu' & 'exit' buttons for about 10 seconds (until the FPGA check starts then you release the buttons).
It will set itself on 480p HDMI output so you just have to change a few things to get the picture back.

Regarding the AA's pot you should really open it and play with the potentiometer, every owner of the 9A60 I've read about had to do it (easy as pie don't worry).

Also yesterday I've found that sometimes the AA should be the last thing to be powered on, or off and on again after the VP.
The reason is sometimes it seems to just not pass the signal, it didn't wake up or something who knows...