The Neogeo CD- Hate it with all the fury of the internet or?

[Strider77]

I've got a fondness for this console despite becoming invested in MVS carts as well. Sometimes it's those arranged soundtracks in games like Shodown 2. Sometimes it's just the novelty of having a perfect port on a CD.

It's one of those consoles that could only happen in Japan around that time period. The AES is the same in ways I suppose. Maybe part of it is the fact it was my first foray into the neo geo home consoles.

I still enjoy the console despite having a MVS set up now. I've recently started giving it attention again with the rising prices of MVS stuff (along with everything else). I was shocked to see the prices on some of the CD titles now.

[Domino]

I've got a fondness for this console despite becoming invested in MVS carts as well. Sometimes it's those arranged soundtracks in games like Shodown 2. Sometimes it's just the novelty of having a perfect port on a CD.

It's one of those consoles that could only happen in Japan around that time period. The AES is the same in ways I suppose. Maybe part of it is the fact it was my first foray into the neo geo home consoles.

I still enjoy the console despite having a MVS set up now. I've recently started giving it attention again with the rising prices of MVS stuff (along with everything else). I was shocked to see the prices on some of the CD titles now.

Last Resort has a great arranged OST on NGCD. Still think it is worth owning the system if you don't care for fighting games and want the Neo-Geo experience without breaking the bank. Then again Magician Lord NGCD has messed up music (I guess when they were converting the chiptune to redbook audio they messed up the left channel from my experience) and same for Viewpoint NGCD (boss theme has cracking noises).

The CD games are mostly affordable but I agree some of them are crazy pricey. Cyber-Lip which I notice you picked up, nice. Overtop which stinks on NGCD, Neo Drift-Out is awesome but not worth the current asking price, Twinkle Star Sprites I think cost more on NGCD than Saturn but the Saturn port has poorer quality sound effects.

But of course the rule of thumb is always the same: If you don't care about the spine card it will save you the $$$.

[Skykid]

I'm also shocked by the CD prices now and anyone who invests in the console.

I once had a CD and then a CDZ. Both are utterly intolerable in loading times. For this reason the games were mostly utter peanuts in price ever since it became a relic.

Many games purported to be arcade perfect are actually not - the CD versions have little graphical cuts all over, particularly Slug 2 iirc.

Its novelty at the time was an affordable format for Neo Geo games. That was a huge, huge draw. As a thing for retrospective gaming, fuck those loading times, really. Roms are a million times superior.

I remember being able to go fix a drink while loading one round (not match - round) of KOF '98. Absurd.

[Strider77]

You thought the loading was bad in games like Shodown 2 and Last Resort etc?

I've heard that about Magician Lord but I've been going back and forth and can't notice it. What exactly is messed up?

I'm wondering if there is real truth to that. Just like a thread on here claimed that Wolf Fang had a bunch of slowdown on the Saturn and I have experienced none... but it was going around that it was near game breaking.

Then again I haven't compared them all. Just the 1st stages music.

[Skykid]

Never had Shodown 2, what is the loading like on the Z?

I had numerous KOF's - I think everything 95 - 98, Top Hunter, Slug 2, and I think Cyber Lip, although that may have been on AES or MVS.

[Strider77]

Magician Lord, Cyber Lip, Nam 75 load once and never again. Shodown 2 is like a saturn game. It has an longer load on the first loading screen but it's down right quick afterwards. It's really only the late fighters on it that load more than what is normal.

Shodown 3 and 4 aren't that bad either. Alot of games aren't... on a CDZ that is.

https://youtu.be/C2i3tKId1Dc

The 1st match was versus the same character so it wasn't a fair example since it technically loaded one character so I filmed the second match also. I edited out the actual fight. You can see the load times though for Shodown 2.

[Skykid]

Vid's marked as private dude.

Basically when I first got the NGCD I was bouyed. Later I was horribly frustrated, especially after playing AES/MVS in the store, and then KOF on PSX, which was infinitely better optimised. So I sold it. Later I got a CDZ - and I'll admit, there's an improvement here (assume that's what you have?) but after a year of trying to play newer, bigger games, it just became horrible again. We used to be able to rent games from where we worked, so I cycled quite a few.

[Strider77]

KOF on the PSX.....

Vid is public now.

[Leandro]

If Samurai Shodown 1 and 2, and Fatal Fury Special have tolerable loading times, then it's worth it. I love these fighting games to death. And then you have the shooters, like Last Resort

[ACSeraph]

I have both an AES and a CDZ. I love both, but because of the price of AES carts most of my collection is focused around the CD. I've got about 50 complete in case games for it, roughly half the library. For a while I was considering going for a complete collection, but backed off because of the ridiculous prices on quite a few games I have no interest in.

As for the load thing, it depends on the game. The older stuff like the early Fatal Fury, AoF, and SS games apparently load the entire game to ram, and so once they start up they have basically no load times at all with the addition of awesome arranged soundtracks. I prefer these to the AES carts actually.

Most of the stuff that falls in the middle of the NG lifespan is pretty decently playable on the CDZ, though a bit less so on a normal NGCD. There are a few titles here that are ridiculously expensive on AES that are still quite good on CDZ. To some degree a lot of the main SNK stuff was outdone by the later PS2 ports, but if you are into more obscure stuff like Ninja Masters CD is your best bet. Ninja Masters NGCD in particular is probably the best port of the game imo, with an arranged soundtrack only available in that format, perfect gameplay, and decent loads. Gowcaizer is another guilty pleasure of mine, and again, the NGCD exclusive soundtrack really makes or breaks this one. Those ridiculous vocal super hero themes add so much personality to this game.

KoF though, and a few of the later generation neo titles (what little made it to CD) is unplayable. It's mostly because the system only seems to have enough Ram for 2 characters. So, between every round as you switch to a new character the system has to load all the data from scratch, leading to extremely bad pacing. You can get around this and make the games decently playable by doing single mode rather than Team, but it kind of misses the point of playing KoF. But the most laughable? Try playing Last Blade 1 or 2. The game has load screens between the fight into animations. It has a load screen after the announcer says "Fight"! It's so bad I'm surprised that SNK ever thought it was worthy of release. Looking at that I think it's better the CD lost support when it did. I'd shudder to imagine Mark of the Wolves running on it...

Anyhow I think for the most part CDZ is a great system, and a good alternative for people who want a true NG experience without wanting to waste shitloads of cash on AES carts. A lot of the hellish load time thing comes from the fact KoF is SNKs flagship series and therefor the game everyone has tried on the system. That also happens to be one of the worst technically performing titles, and really poisoned peoples image of what the machine was capable of.

[brentsg]

I have a soft spot and have all 3 variants around somewhere. I sold an unused CDZ for a pittance and regret it.. same with a home cart system, tbh. I never minded the load times too much, but I never played the games that were the worst in that regard. Maybe I'll bust mine out for the kids soon.

Is there any current guidance around for CD game prices? Mine have been in storage for a decade plus.

[BryanM]

Heh, man the wiki page is a throwback:

Neo Geo CD: 1X Cd-Rom
CDZ: 2X

Remember when these drives were measured in X's? And how it was only remotely tolerable at around 8 of them? Ah, the 90's were a terrible time.

(Glancing at the specs, the worst case scenario with filling the entirety of the NGCD's 7 MB of RAM at 1X could take 47 seconds. And of course a character select screen would require almost all of that, so optimizing it to be less time after the initial load would be difficult. Good lord.

I'd definitely have made character select screens have no music and be in ASCii mode under those conditions. The '90's!)

[BrianC]

How are the Saturn NG fighting game ports in comparison to the NGCD versions? I like the PS2 Real Bout collection quite a bit, but, even when switching to Japanese, they only play the censored versions.

[Strider77]

They are solid.... Character sprites may be a tad thinner but not super noticeable and the sound effects may be slightly less crisp.

[Domino]

Damn it after reading this thread I want to pick up a NGCD again.

But this time I want the two big Neo Geo joysticks.




Edit: But a serious question came out. Does the CDZ really overheat/locks up after extending playing?

[ACSeraph]

Edit: But a serious question came out. Does the CDZ really overheat/locks up after extending playing?

It's never happened to me, but I don't really marathon my games either.

[Domino]

Edit: But a serious question came out. Does the CDZ really overheat/locks up after extending playing?

It's never happened to me, but I don't really marathon my games either.

I see, I always been curious on that. Would be nice if the OP can shed light on his CDZ.

[BrianC]

I remember back when CD had crazy load times, but I was surprised that Mickey Mania SNES actually has worse loading than the Sega CD version (and the Sega CD loading in general wasn't as bad as I expected).

[Strider77]

I owned 2 CDZ systems and known 2 folks who each had one. I have not seen any overheat. I think that was another urban legend.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

I always thought the Neo CD controller looked like the perfect solution for fighting game players who use a pad. Never tried it myself. I guess it's pretty much the same thing as the neo geo pocket and 3ds thumbstick. Both of which I like. I think the neo geo pocket thumbstick is way better than the one on the 3ds, though.

[BrianC]

3DS thumbstick is different since it's analog. The NeoGeo controllers are digital.

edit: I'm not sure about the NeoGeo CD controller. I watched a video and it seems to be analog. The NGPC controller is definitely digital, though.

[Specineff]

I have one and can confirm it's digital. Four micro-switches.

[PC Engine Fan X Mode] The Neo Geo pocket also uses a similar D-pad/mini-stick. Gotta love that clicky-ness. Also, a certain 3rd-party manufacturer had made a PS1 controller with a similar joystick back in the late 90s, which was highly recommended for fighters. Not sure if it was Nyko, Naki, or Nikko, but I saw it in a magazine once. [/PCEngine Fan X Mode]

[MintyTheCat]

The Sega Mega CD although may have had a similarly spec for CD Drive did not need to move anything like the amount of graphic data that NeoGeo games tend to and as such it was poor by all accounts.

I have never used one myself but for me personally I remember reading the NeoGeo FAQ over 15 years ago and the consensus then was that it was not worth it.
I have had AES machines for years but before I got my first I made a list of all the games that I wanted to have for the NeoGeo and it was not that long a list that it made better sense to me to buy them all as either AES or MVS carts. I have this odd thing about CD media in that I just do not think it is really worth anything but carts and PCBs have value and retain value for me personally. My younger self made some good predictions and I only ever lost money on one AES title which was samurai spirits 3. I paid something like GBP 120 for it 15+ years ago and that one AES title now goes for a fraction of that But I only lost money once with AES carts and I dare say that I would have lost a lot more money had I have collected CD titles. I only own Last-Resort on CD as I really wanted to hear the soundtrack and compare it to the original cart soundtrack.

A real failed attempt by SNK but we got very excited back in 1994 when it came out as I recall

[Domino]

I wonder how much a CDZ goes for nowadays without box?

[Strider77]

I got a boxed one for 200.00 3 years ago... with the way things are now, probably 600.00 plus your 1st born.

[ACSeraph]

Amazon Japan says 27,000 yen (around 250 USD) for an unboxed system.

I got really lucky with mine and snatched up a boxed one for around $80 two years ago when I got sick of messing with my normal NGCD system. I should see if I can sell the box since it's just wasting space in the closet

[Domino]

Amazon Japan says 27,000 yen (around 250 USD) for an unboxed system.

I got really lucky with mine and snatched up a boxed one for around $80 two years ago when I got sick of messing with my normal NGCD system. I should see if I can sell the box since it's just wasting space in the closet

Sounds much better. You think I should still pick up a regular NGCD or the CDZ? I had the regular NGCD in the past and it didn't have any problems.

[ACSeraph]

I think it depends on how much you are going to play it. I played mine very heavily and the roughly 2x faster loads on CDZ made a big difference to me. Particularly it makes a lot of the middle-lifespan games very comfortable to play. There are things it won't help though. KoF still sucks on a CDZ, as does Last Blade.

I would say if you just want to mess around with it occasionally then NGCD is sufficient, but if you are planning to get quite a few titles and dig into them then $250 isnt really thank bank breaking for the noticable benefit it gives.

[BrianC]

I'm guessing KoF '95 is better played on the Saturn since it has the ROM cart (though that makes it a less than ideal import if you only use a Action Replay 4M plus)?

[Domino]

I think it depends on how much you are going to play it. I played mine very heavily and the roughly 2x faster loads on CDZ made a big difference to me. Particularly it makes a lot of the middle-lifespan games very comfortable to play. There are things it won't help though. KoF still sucks on a CDZ, as does Last Blade.

I would say if you just want to mess around with it occasionally then NGCD is sufficient, but if you are planning to get quite a few titles and dig into them then $250 isnt really thank bank breaking for the noticable benefit it gives.

Thanks. I might aim for the CDZ then. Really want to play NG games again without dealing with MAME.