From Software 'n such

[Steamflogger Boss]

Speaking of special runs those b2b2b2b2b2b2b etc no hit god runs of the From games are wild.

HappyHob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0157-pc7rb4

Of course, people have added ER to the run now. Still in progress.

[Blinge]

I've done the deathless run of DS1.

Bed of Chaos made me sweat for sure, but that safe area you mentioned roo.. you can snipe with a bow from there.
You could save+quit out at that point too, to reset yourself to the beginning of the boss room and not have to risk being swept in

[bcass]

I just started AC: Verdict Day on the PS3 (as it's not well emulated) and I think it might be my favourite AC game (having now played all of 4th to 6th gen titles). I'll give a full breakdown when I have completed the main story missions, but it's such a huge improvement over AC-V and has a lot that AC-VI doesn't. They realy went out on a limb with this one. It's also the only AC game that has fully functioning co-op, although you'll need to use the AC Discord if you want to find other players as the servers are a ghost town. Worth buying a 2nd hand PS3 for IMO.

[Angry Hina]

Or 360. It mostly offers the better experience. Is it not the case for ACVD? It was für 4/fA, if I remember corectly.

[bcass]

I recommend the PS3 version as all the online stuff can be accessed for free, whereas on the 360 you need a Live subscription. I believe the game performs very slightly better on the 360, but there's not much in it, performance is not great on either machine. Also, you can get the game on PSN for £9.99, it isn't available for download on Xbox Live, you'd have to pay a lot more for a physical copy.

[bcass]

Verdict Day completed. Here are my observations:

- I went for the PS3 version as it can be purchased on PSN for a mere £9.99 (it's not available on the Xbox Marketplace). The other added benefit of the PS3 version is that the online stuff (co-op / PvP) is free to play unlike the 360 version. I was amazed to see a plethora of paid DLC items available on the Playstation Store for this game, but according to the AC Discord it's all cosmetics. Still, a big shock for a From game.
- Framerate not great, regardless of platform.
- Online co-op still fully functional, though you won't likely stumble on anyone online randomly, you'll need to get someone from the AC Discord to help. I had no problems finding people to play with when I tried it out.
- Really good OST, more in line with AC-V in style. Sounds a bit more professionally produced.
- Wish I had played this game when it first came out when the servers were busy. Would have been great to just jump in and help random players in story missions.
- You'll feel right at home in this game coming from AC-V. Has the same gritty and janky feel / style. A world apart from 4th and 6th gen.
- Weapons can now be rebalanced in terms of power, rapid-fire, and accuracy.
- No overly long story missions that outstay their welcome.
- Interface is pretty bad and in desperate need of streamlining. The story mode is quite long and you will come to hate the menus if you play through it all.
- Shop now works by gradually making more items for sale as you complete story missions.
- Not an easy game, but not as frustrating as AC-V. Overall, much more playable. Some of the late-game missions are some of the most difficult in any of the 4th to 6th gen AC games. You will likely be tweaking loadouts a lot.
- Some genuinely good level design in some of the missions that force you to think a bit more strategically, making the recon units much more useful in this game.
- Gives a good feeling that you are in some kind of actual war. There's stuff going on around you in missions that makes the world feel more substantial and involved. You can tell that From were starting to hone their world building skills here. Likewise, the combat feels more hectic and involved. It's a lot more engaging than AC-V. The foggy missions have a great atmosphere.
- You have to be a lot more ammo-conscious this time round. In earlier missions I was frequently running out of ammo before the end of missions for being so gungho. This is likely a design decision to force you to engage in melee combat with enemies using swords / kicks.
- Some of the shit-talking from enemy ACs in their intros is hilarious.
- UNACS (AI co-op ACs that you can fully customise like your own AC) are an awesome idea. This system has a whole level of depth to it not seen in any other 4th to 6th-gen AC game. This absolutely needs to be brought back and refined in a future AC game.
- Mostly unobtrusive story.
- Has non-AC bosses / mini-bosses. Don't expect anything like the bosses in VI, but still, they are there and help add to the already significant variety present in this game.
- Quite a tough final boss that requires a quite specific build to beat.
- Some quite tough missions which I think are geared more towards co-op. This game required me to put more thought into strategy and builds than any other 4th to 6th gen AC game.
- There's an awesome thing that happens when your AC is destroyed and your UNAC is still alive during a mission. I won't spoilt it, but it was such an amazing little detail that I don't think many developers would have bothered adding it and is another example of what makes From so special.

Final score: a solid 9/10. Huge number of refinements added to vastly improve on AC-V. If the online co-op was still very active, I may have gone as far as a 10/10 and would be playing the game for months to come. This has become my favourite AC game. It's a very substantial package that feels like it had a lot more thought put into it compared to AC-V. It's still a very janky game though regardless of which platform you play it on - technically it's a million miles away from the super-slick feel of VI. I would absolutely love to see the next AC game have all the online co-op stuff that this game has, and the UNACS absolutely must make a return, they add a very substantial depth to an already intricate game, and most of all they are fun to have fighting with you in missions.

Looking back at all the ideas in this game (and lots more that I didn't mention), it seems that they really played it safe with VI. The possibilities for VII are huge. I don't think VD was responsible for the series' long hiatus, I think that the Souls games blew up and that suddenly became their focus. There's a reason why the servers are still live for this game 10 years after its release. Anyway, my 4th and 5th gen summary: must plays are For Answer and Verdict Day. I would pay top-dollar to play remasters of these two titles. For the lesser titles, AC-IV is very short, light and casual - not essential, whereas AC-V is strictly for the masochists.

I actually played a fair amount of AC3 on PCSX2 before I started VD, and to be honest I wasn't overly impressed, mostly because of the absolutely awful controls, so this might be the end of my journey through the AC games. I will stick with VD for a while longer and do some co-op with people on the discord.

[Angry Hina]

Nice to read someone likes Gen 5

[Sima Tuna]

I'm playing Ashen. It's pretty fun, although definitely an indie effort.

[evil_ash_xero]

I just started AC: Verdict Day on the PS3 (as it's not well emulated) and I think it might be my favourite AC game (having now played all of 4th to 6th gen titles). I'll give a full breakdown when I have completed the main story missions, but it's such a huge improvement over AC-V and has a lot that AC-VI doesn't. They realy went out on a limb with this one. It's also the only AC game that has fully functioning co-op, although you'll need to use the AC Discord if you want to find other players as the servers are a ghost town. Worth buying a 2nd hand PS3 for IMO.

Wow. That's surprising with all the bad stuff I've heard about 5th gen. I might give it a look, because I can't get into For Answer to save my life.

[bcass]

It was a total surprise to me too that I liked VD so much. Since completing all the story missions earlier in the week, I am tempted to try out the hardcore mode that has since unlocked, and plan to do some co-op this weekend with people from the discord. I don't want to stop playing it, it was too much fun first time round. Be warned though, as I mentioned in my summary, it's janky as hell, in a way that the original Dark Souls is janky.

[evil_ash_xero]

It was a total surprise to me too that I liked VD so much. Since completing all the story missions earlier in the week, I am tempted to try out the hardcore mode that has since unlocked, and plan to do some co-op this weekend with people from the discord. I don't want to stop playing it, it was too much fun first time round. Be warned though, as I mentioned in my summary, it's janky as hell, in a way that the original Dark Souls is janky.

I'll keep that in mind. I'll get around to it sometime, and get it for my PS3. I don't have too hard of a time installing games to it.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Hob fuckin bloody did it. 7 games consecutively no hit.

[ryu]

Been playing AC VI. I can now understand why Daemon X Machina was not too well received if this level of quality has been a staple for the AC series. The campaign is honestly great. Has a lot of variety and never feels gimmicky. Daemon X Machina in comparison was getting old a couple of chapters in with its samey missions.

Have to say it would be neat if these games could provide better assembly manuals, maybe even hints. I was hard stuck on Nightfall for over two hours until I switched my generator and aim chip. Apparently I was gimping my assembly hard and hadn't even noticed until this mission.

[Sima Tuna]

Power supply is generally the single most important issue to resolve early in the older AC titles. My first upgrade in AC3 will usually be the largest power generator I can find. Funnily enough, when you slap an overpowered generator into a tiny, energy-sipping Economy Mech, the result is it can fly/boost for hours without needing any recharge. Very fun.

[Lander]

AC has never been so polished as it is in VI, but has more or less always owned its niche.

Daemon had some neat ideas, but in practice is just a common-or-garden anime knockoff in the vein of the PS Vita library. Take some core idea, retheme, implement it less well, and add some extra systems on top to differentiate. It's not an approach that tends to spawn earnest spiritual successors.

As for AC customization, it's all about experimentation! The game wants you to abuse the hell out of the quick test feature for iterating on an efficient setup, and try all the new parts as they roll in. Though I agree it would be nice to have some guidance beyond 'here is how it works, go nuts' - there doesn't tend to be a palpable baseline for what a good configuration looks like until you've dug in and developed an intuition for the different stats, systems, and playstyles. Often by failing a lot

Still, much nicer than it was in the older games, since they had the same 'fix it yourself' attitute, but with much less QoL to speed the process.

And yeah, light-mech-big-genny builds are a ton of fun. Very glass cannon in most cases, but getting blasted is less of a worry when you can live in the sky and circle strafe anything for free.

[Sima Tuna]

And yeah, light-mech-big-genny builds are a ton of fun. Very glass cannon in most cases, but getting blasted is less of a worry when you can live in the sky and circle strafe anything for free.

Well, I don't usually leave my AC build there, but the upgrading process is slow when you're starting out. So I'm typically adding parts as I go, with a focus on pieces that will remain viable for a very long time. Internals are usually the first bits I replace from the starting loadout, because internals matter so much. A laser or pulse weapon is also nice to slap on early, to save cash.

My midgame build is usually either a hover legs economy build (made with mostly laser weapons to hoover up more money) or a quad legs max damage model. Quad legs are seriously strong. You get very solid all-around stats, including high hp, on a frame that's more mobile than it seems.

[ryu]

Does Ibis have extra high defense against energy type damage?

[Lander]

Not as far as I remember, anything with decent DPS should suffice if you're playing super aggressive and finding windows to stagger it - boost kick and shock lance is a good combo for that, then something chunky to exploit the damage window.
Which energy weapon? I remember thinking laser stuff was generally kind of weak relative to its cost when I played.

Well, I don't usually leave my AC build there, but the upgrading process is slow when you're starting out. So I'm typically adding parts as I go, with a focus on pieces that will remain viable for a very long time. Internals are usually the first bits I replace from the starting loadout, because internals matter so much. A laser or pulse weapon is also nice to slap on early, to save cash.

My midgame build is usually either a hover legs economy build (made with mostly laser weapons to hoover up more money) or a quad legs max damage model. Quad legs are seriously strong. You get very solid all-around stats, including high hp, on a frame that's more mobile than it seems.

In general I tend to keep a minmaxy bipedal energy mech until midgame, with a high-roller quad on the side to sweep the arena with shoulder guns, and eventually rotate it into missions once money is no object.
Though I could never get on with hover legs; high energy cost, relatively low stats, comporomised hoverhopping... I'd have one on standby for the inevitable water stages, but that's about it. Though I've seen other people do neat stuff with the hover extension, economizing so they could essentially fly forever.

6 is really different on the build front; the economy's more or less trivial, so fiddling with niche gimmick builds is a lot more viable. Kinda hoping they do a Mechwarrior Mercenaries style DLC to reintegrate Poverty Robot Action at some point, now everyone's had chance to learn the systems.

[ryu]

I was stuck on Michigan and ended up reworking my assembly. In the end I was using laser weapons exclusively with a generator and core that had good laser damage adjust and seemed to be doing much more damage than before (video of the loadout in Intercept the Redguns). Until I ran into Ibis and seemed to be dealing very little damage, especially compared to what you see in youtube videos of said boss fight. So I thought since that boss was using primarily (exclusively?) energy based attacks it might just be resilient to that damage type.

In the end I won with dual stun needle launcher and the laser thruster - without another arm weapon equipped because I hit the EN load limit. Somehow this worked, even though my twin needle launchers couldn't stun the boss in one hit as was advertized by the guides. Really not sure what to think of this game's balance sometimes. I also tried using dual homing missiles (the ones that the tooltip says are good for airborne enemies) and wasn't able to hit the boss at all with them.

Feels like I was cheesing the fight and wish my usual loadout could have worked better against it.

Anyways, my main build revolves around staggering enemies with ranged chip damage and rushing in for a laser blade attack. It's really satisfying when it works well. You have to dodge a lot until the enemy is staggered and when the time comes hitting that melee attack depends a lot on timing and positioning. Everything else feels like cheesing the game. But this doesn't seem to work against agile enemies as ranged attacks (at least those from my weapons) don't hit often enough to reliably cause stagger. I then end up staggering most of the time with my blade and having no heavy hitting weapons left to pump into the staggered target. Was hell against Cel 240 because the boss seems to be designed around dying in 1 or 2 staggers. Which just doesnt happen when your stagger + burst only takes 20-30% of its damage away (and windows for laser blade attacks occur rather rare in the fight).

[Lemnear]

Usually, at some point i have a route for this kind of games after many plays. I have one in Dark Souls 1, 2 and 3 that makes your game easier, like a "perfect route", for a well rounded PVE character.
But in Elden Ring...i can't find the next step after the +8 Banished Knight Halberd (Morne). With this you can easily clear all of Limgrave and a part of Liurnia, but...
What is the next "Perfect Step" after this?.

Short Examples:

Spoiler

Dark Souls 1: Drake Sword (Ring the 2 bells without dying with this sword is easy) -> Winged Spear (poke beast) Claymore (Absolute Moveset). (Quality or Dex.)
Dark Souls 2: Longsword (stagger beast) // Yorgh's Spear+Santier's Spear (Super-Moveset) // Giga-Clubs (OP but boring) (Quality or DEX or STR)
Dark Souls 3: is more precise, in every area, you can find an item that will help a lot for the next area/boss (Rings, Weapons/Boss Weakness, for an 80% of the game).
Mostly is a Quality Character in the end.
Demon's Souls: 1-1 (1-2 optional, 2-1 optional) 4-1, 5-1,5-2,5-3, and when you feel ready 2-2. Then the game becomes ridiculous. (Luck Build). The alternative is VIT/END with the Soulbrandt/Demonbrandt.

[Lander]

Hmm, Elden Ring is so wide that I'd expect it to become a matter of tier lists and subjectivity after you get out of the first couple of zones. Whatever gets you to Mimic Tear the fastest, I guess? Probably a large weapon with easily exploitable jump attack hitbox.

And I wonder which is better for early-game DS1 stomping relative to the effort spent to get it; Gravelord Sword or Drake Sword?
Drake seemed to get all the lip-service early in the game's life, but I feel like the earlystomp popularity contest has shifted toward Gravelord over time.

[ryu]

I began assembling a route for my second character in Elden Ring and very quickly gave up on the task when I realized what a mountain of work it was.

Doesn't a perfect PvE build in ER abuse magic to trivialize bosses? I seem to remember that some spells are absolutely broken.

[bcass]

Comet Azure with the Tear that temporarily freezes FP use essentially one-shots many bosses. On my 2nd playthrough of the game I did a no-levelling run with spirit summons. Doing the quest to obtain the Dung Eater Puppet, then using him to wreck bosses is a lot of fun (until you get to Fire Giant).

[Lemnear]

Hmm, Elden Ring is so wide that I'd expect it to become a matter of tier lists and subjectivity after you get out of the first couple of zones. Whatever gets you to Mimic Tear the fastest, I guess? Probably a large weapon with easily exploitable jump attack hitbox.

And I wonder which is better for early-game DS1 stomping relative to the effort spent to get it; Gravelord Sword or Drake Sword?
Drake seemed to get all the lip-service early in the game's life, but I feel like the earlystomp popularity contest has shifted toward Gravelord over time.

Drake Sword is easier to obtain, easier to use (no scaling, just 16 STR), 0 waste of stats, 0 upgrade to do (useless).

I began assembling a route for my second character in Elden Ring and very quickly gave up on the task when I realized what a mountain of work it was.

Doesn't a perfect PvE build in ER abuse magic to trivialize bosses? I seem to remember that some spells are absolutely broken.

This is my 5th or 6th run on ER, i already have a Death Witch (180 hour of perfect tuning) , is OP and it ruins the game essentially, totally trivializing everything. Is not a build that i will suggest to anyone (is cool AF btw), maybe once just to try it , but is not the best, is too "limited" to be well-rounded. You can't use anything that isn't INT related.
Same for Bleed Builds etc. are so mono-dimensional.

Spoiler

an 80 INT Witch with EVERY SPELLS/Staff.
an 80 DEX Wretched with Ornamental Swords combo set-up or Flowed Curved Sword with Parry AOW (Blue Dancer Charm, Bull-Goat's Talisman,Winged Sword Insignia, Rotten Winged Sword Insignia) No armor.
an evilish character with Blasphemous Blade + Sword of Milos.
another FTH witch with Winged Scythe and Fia set.
a cosplay of Vyke.
some deleted charaters in and there too.

Comet Azure with the Tear that temporarily freezes FP use essentially one-shots many bosses. On my 2nd playthrough of the game I did a no-levelling run with spirit summons. Doing the quest to obtain the Dung Eater Puppet, then using him to wreck bosses is a lot of fun (until you get to Fire Giant).

I mean this ^.
For the other souls-game at some point i have a route, for a well-rounded character who can face everything but at the same time is "friendly for new players" and allows you to use more weapons and spells than the classic mono-type build. As something that i would suggest to someone new to the game, for a rich and less frustrating experience.
So essentially a "Route" (playable for anyone) where you can use the majority of what the games have to offer without any particular difficulty.
I found those "OP" build so limiting and mono-dimensional .

[Stevens]

Leave the Lands Between and come to Yharnam.

[Lemnear]

Leave the Lands Between and come to Yharnam.

I only need one run with the Reiterpallasch. The last hunt.

[Stevens]

You've used every other weapon?

[Lemnear]

You've used every other weapon?

No, just the ones i like
(i think the last would be the 4th)

[Stevens]

I used the Reiterpallasch for last years Return to Yharnam. Was quite impressed with it - shines against NPC hunters.

[Lemnear]

I used the Reiterpallasch for last years Return to Yharnam. Was quite impressed with it - shines against NPC hunters.

BTW what i mean with Elden Ring is...that i miss those DKS3 Weapons with weird moveset and those Combo with normal, heavy and WA attacks mixed together endlessly.
I prefer "Moveset" over damage, always (PVE and PVP)
(Souls player since 2009)(monster duelist since 2014)(In DKS2 i have 2x of RING OF THORNS +2 = 2000 Host players killed in Invasions)
(I used in Dark Souls 3 the Farron's Greatsword, Valorheart, and weapons with the "Square Off" and "Stamp (Upward Cut)" WA, parry tools and maybe a shield without any skill, to use my WA suddenly + a Dagger with "Quick-Step" as second side tool).).

I wish something similar for Elden Ring that works in every stage of the game , a melee-dynamic build....there are a tons of weapons but most feels boring (usually just a normal moveset + 1 SPELL...which can't be combined with your normal attacks ) and normal weapons with AOW in Elden Ring are not effective like "OP-Boring" stuff...
I don't know exactly in this case how to build a "Quality-Keen" knight with enough Mana, in DKS3 that wasn't an issue at all. Also the "PVP CAP" is low to maximize 2 stats in ER. I'm not so good at planning characters with Elden Ring as i am with the Dark Souls trilogy, other than the obvious builds.

Meanwhile:

Spoiler

ELDEN RING BOSSES WEAKNESS/RESISTANCE COUNT:

FIRE: 20W/11R
LIGHTNING: 5W/13R
HOLY: 13W/5R
MAGIC: 1W/13R

STANDARD: 1W/15R
SLASH: 30W/5R
STRIKE: 7W/18R
THRUST: 3W/17R

Now i understand why the Rivers of Blood is so broken...

EDIT: not sure if transform my 50 Mana/80 Int witch in a INT/FTH caster mmm , the theme is cool...