Help modding consumer Sony Trinitron CRT for RGB

[cr4zymanz0r]

So I've been reading that people have been hacking consumer CRTs to accept RGB inputs by basically hijacking the OSD. I'm wanting to try to do that, but some details are unclear to me so I thought maybe someone here might be able to help clear things up.

I'm attempting this on a model KV-27FS100 Trinitron. I opened it up and found it has a CXA2154AS "Jungle" IC.
For reference, I took a screenshot of part of a Trinitron service manual that shows the pinout of the IC: http://i.imgur.com/5ItiqRx.png

Pins 43, 42, and 41 correspond to RGB input, which from my understanding is where the OSD is being fed into.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are 4 things total I need to do:

1.) Disconnect the OSD RGB signal from the Jungle IC. (optionally install a switch if I want to be able to see the OSD again)
2.) Connect the ports/connector to the Jungle IC for the RGB signal I want to feed to the CRT
3.) Something about feeding 5V into the blanking pin or whatever so the RGB signal will be sent to the whole screen rather than just the overlay area of the OSD
4.) Connect sync somehow.

I'm fairly sure I understand steps 1 and 2, but I'll ask to make sure. Just cut/disconnect pins 43, 42, and 41 from the Jungle IC then solder on wires for my RGB signals. Correct?

As for step 3, I'm not even sure what the proper name is for that signal so I'm unsure which pin I need to feed 5V into. Can anyone help?
Lastly, step 4. What's the best and/or easiest way to feed sync into this? My consoles are using a combination of csync and cvbs (mostly csync).

[cr4zymanz0r]

Just an update to give more info. I disconnected pins 43, 42, and 41 from the Jungle IC and then the OSD no longer had any color and at that point was black outline of it's former self with some kind of white interference look to it. Using some wires i'd soldered in place and some alligator clips I was able to reconnect those connections and see the color come back to the OSD.

However, basically nothing happens when I input my own RGB signal other than it no longer has the white interference on the black OSD. I figured I'd at least get some kind of unstable color image where the OSD is displaying.

[Ed Oscuro]

I bet you're way ahead of me on this but I decided to finally give it a careful look. I'm a diagram novice however, plus I can't see the entire thing.

I think these questions might be answered, but let's enumerate them:
Is it certain that the RGB is actually RGBs and not YUV? (I'm guessing yes, since the picture-in-picture inputs are explicitly labeled YcBcR.)
Pin 45 is "YUV-SW" and I wonder if that selects the color mode. Or is this even necessary? It makes it seem as if the OSD input might just always be fed in, with no explicit switch, so when the OSD isn't active its pins simply feed no RGB data to the jungle IC.
Where would sync go?

I wasn't able to find a datasheet for this specific jungle IC. Are they specified somewhere in the manual you took the image from? I did find this ancient one which has listed S(ync) output, H(in) and V(in) for horizontal and vertical separation, a very different design from this one. Additionally, I found this 48-pin package, a simpler model, but there's a block diagram and some of the pin labels appear the same, specifically the mysterious "ys2/ym" (luma sync?? it looks like it on the following): http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_n ... /a2060.pdf

About the OSD, again: I wonder if the other chip visible to the left needs to be looked at too. I don't see the label but this is the OSD output chip, right? It's got 64 pins; 62-64 are supplying the RGB inputs for IC301. The BLK labels everywhere confuse me. I think these deal with blanking intervals, not feeding sync specifically; however O-OSDBLK leads directly to...ys2/ym again. I do see, on the possible OSD output chip, that pin 6 looks like it takes h-sync input.

[cr4zymanz0r]

Honestly, I might be in above my head on this. Nobody ever seems to write an in depth guide for adding RGB to a consumer CRT. Instead they to just describe a general overview of what they did.

I got the general idea from this link: http://mikejmoffitt.com/wp/?p=284
A forum post here has someone mentioning it's easy to perform on Trinitrons and you just need to utilize the RGB inputs on the Jungle IC: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php? ... 7d#p136268

This is the service manual I was looking at: https://mega.co.nz/#!KhkhyYhK!9ryU1CjjJ ... MrDkhNxZoA
Page 47 is where I took a screenshot.
Page 50 seems to show the internal logic of the Jungle IC, but I really don't understand all the info.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh sh...the blanking signal description on that page is helpful, but not at all what I wanted to read! It does look like you have to fool the OSD chip, not the Jungle IC, if the theory here is correct for this model.

Honestly, I'd just go with a CSY clone. This is going to require some ugly hardware mods; I already realized that you'd need a switch or something to get the OSD back.

[system11]

You guys really got stiffed in the US, over here a Trinitron without RGB is a thing that doesn't exist.

[mickcris]

The general public over here is probably too dumb for scart. they would have had to come up with an easier connector that does not have as many variables.

[cr4zymanz0r]

Oh sh...the blanking signal description on that page is helpful, but not at all what I wanted to read! It does look like you have to fool the OSD chip, not the Jungle IC, if the theory here is correct for this model.

Honestly, I'd just go with a CSY clone. This is going to require some ugly hardware mods; I already realized that you'd need a switch or something to get the OSD back.

I knew I'd have to have a switch to re-enable the OSD and didn't consider that too huge of a deal.

I am currently using a CSY clone to convert RGB to component on the TV. I wanted to do this mod "just because" and to see how native RGB would compare to the CSY clone. I'd still like to do the mod, but I don't have the circuit knowledge to figure out the work required nearly from scratch. I doubt it's too bad of a mod if someone had already made instructions, but here we are

[Ed Oscuro]

The general public over here is probably too dumb for scart. they would have had to come up with an easier connector that does not have as many variables.

And that would have been a good thing. But no, penny pinching was applied to the US market in the extreme...

...which is why the back panels of our sets are littered with huge matrices of the giant RCA plugs instead. Vast expanses of waste metal

Anyway, I'll look at that diagram some more later to see if I can't figure out a bit more.

And the short version of what I'm thinking from earlier comments - maybe the point to insert the RGB is not on the Jungle IC, but the OSD generating chip.

[system11]

The general public over here is probably too dumb for scart. they would have had to come up with an easier connector that does not have as many variables.

And that would have been a good thing. But no, penny pinching was applied to the US market in the extreme...

...which is why the back panels of our sets are littered with huge matrices of the giant RCA plugs instead. Vast expanses of waste metal

Anyway, I'll look at that diagram some more later to see if I can't figure out a bit more.

And the short version of what I'm thinking from earlier comments - maybe the point to insert the RGB is not on the Jungle IC, but the OSD generating chip.

The alleged reason I heard was not cost reasons but pressure from the MPAA terrified of people having a connection format giving good quality copies.

[cr4zymanz0r]

You guys really got stiffed in the US, over here a Trinitron without RGB is a thing that doesn't exist.

Out of curiosity, how does RGB selection work on Trinitrons where you're at (Europe I assume)?
For instance, with my US Trinitron I switch between 4 different inputs which each having a number. I don't remember the precise order, but it basically amounts to this:

Input 1 - Front composite
Input 2 - Back composite/s-video
Input 3 - 2nd back composite
Input 4 - Component (YUV).

When you use RGB is there just an Input 5 or something you select, or does it just auto switch to the RGB input once it detects a RGB signal? I'm wondering since I'm curious if the European Trinitrons might have the same "Jungle" IC as the US Trinitrons, but is maybe just missing some connections/components.

[SukkoPera]

SCART has an autoswitching feature, so for instance when I turn my SNES on, the TV automatically switches to the SCART input. But this does not always work (it depends on the device and cable), so you just have a #5 input, as you say, and can also switch to it manually.

[neorichieb1971]

SCART doesn't only put through an RGB signal. It puts across many types. Depending on which pins are connected. I believe (not sure about this) 5v on pin 8 of the RGB scart cable tells the TV its an RGB signal and to enter that mode. You can through put composite and svideo as well, although svideo would only work on one of the scart sockets, where as RGB would only work on the other. Many TV's had more than one SCART socket. I believe component is possible as well, although I have never used a scart for this purpose.

Basically pressing the input button does this -

AV1 - Composite/RGB (depending on the 5v pin being active or not)
AV2 - Composite (svideo would show as Black and white here)
AV2(S) - Same input but configured for svideo. Should show as color now. Assume the same pins used as RGB (not sure).
AV3 - Usually on the front of the set if it has one.

[Ed Oscuro]

@ system11: I've read that before. I don't know why they should have bothered given that most people using prerecorded VHS tapes already faced copy protection schemes like Macrovision, and the format is lossy to begin with. I do know, however, that entertainment lobbying forced the "analog sunset" for HD output of Blu-Ray players (no new players sold after 2013 output HD across analog connections).

Back to the question of RGB switching on SCART sets, does anybody know what IC pins control this?

[mvsfan]

i still use dvd because its good enough.

DVD was basically a revolution over VHS. no more breaking tapes. no more rewinding. no more worn out tapes.

but blue ray isnt that much of an improvement.

[SGGG2]

lol at 480i to 1080p not being a significant jump in image quality.

[mvsfan]

higher resolution doesnt matter if the content hasnt been optimized for it. most digital cable for example looks awful because its the same ol recycled 480i content, even on hd channels. your paying for shit quality.

they need to take the analog masters and restore them and then convert them to blue ray otherwise it just doesnt work.

[mvsfan]

i would also be interested in a how to guide for trinitron tvs.

i know there are some really cheap tvs that were sold in the us that have an empty spot for a scart port on their case plugged with a filler plate. I used to have an LXI one.

But do the pcbs inside actually have the empty spot for it? i never checked mine out i had to throw that tv away after a basement flood.

[cr4zymanz0r]

The PCB on mine doesn't have a spot on it for SCART.

[Pikkon]

I've been studying this as well as I would like to get rgb out of sony trinitron.

I have found some nice info on the net.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4159.0
https://web.archive.org/web/20100530092 ... c-ntsc-tv/

Are you still messing around trying to get rgb.