Kamui Analysis Project

[Super Butterfly]

One of my goals in life is to develop a superior clone of Siter Skain’s Kamui: one of the
greatest shmups of all time. A detailed table of information about Kamui would help me formulate a
way to present and balance my game. Some of the information I desire is what enemies are
introduced, when they are introduced, descriptions of the enemies, how many points each enemy is
worth, the number of backgrounds, the number of projectile types, descriptions of the projectiles,
and the number of attacks and projectile types each boss has. Also, if anyone has the ability to
dissect the game’s coding, please tell me.

This isn’t all about me though; the collected information will remain public to help any
developer who could use it. It will also help us understand what makes Kamui so good and possibly
facilitate games of similar quality.

Because I don’t know how much work the people here are willing to perform (if any), I want
you guys to determine the types of information to be collected.

Production Schedule:
Complete brainstorming and document template for the first stage by the end of Saturday, May 16.
Complete document for the first stage and document template for the second stage by the end of Monday, May 18.
Complete document for the second stage by the end of Wednesday, May 20.

Feel free to ask me questions.

[Super Butterfly]

I don't want to sound preachy, but I need people to participate because this is for a college course I'm taking.

[trap15]

So you want us to do your homework? No thanks.

[Frenetic]

STGWeekly did a ep on Kamui and the other STGs in the Tale of Alltynex series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s0TsZPTX2U

There's also a guidebook that was put out in .PDF form for a Kickstarter. Maybe if you ask NYUMedia nicely you can buy a copy. nyu-media.com

[system11]

Is your course project management?

Because that's all this would teach you - try doing the research yourself. Play the game, understand the game, make notes on the game.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^As the above said, you're better off learning to analyze games and form in depth opinions on them on your own.

Keep in mind "what makes the game good" is subjective, and different people might have different interpretations of what the best and worst aspects of the game are.

For example, "Ikaruga is a puzzle shooter" is either the greatest praise for the game or the greatest complaint for it, depending on who it comes from.

[Softdrink 117]

I'll admit to some interest in this project, as I am a big fan of Kamui myself. It's a great game.

However, I think that it is very unrealistic to expect us to have this information on hand. As best I am aware, this is not a game like Garegga which has been exhaustively studied in this forum. Your best bets as far as research material will probably be any strategy threads on the game (I do believe there are a few, although they aren't listed in the Index and aren't exhaustive STs by any means).

I would offer to help you myself, but I don't know much of interest other than what I've picked up playing the game. I don't know of any detailed strategy info offhand other than the STG Weekly episode, which has already been mentioned.

As others have said, the best way to understand this genre is to try to deconstruct it yourself. Alternatively, watch a high-level replay and try to understand why they the player is doing what they are doing -- breaking down existing high-level play can help give you faster insight if you feel you don't have time to devote to learning the game yourself.

[the_last_shmupper]

I think you should have waited until you were in development before posting in development. At least have screenshots. There could be a million of these "hey guys I'm making a shmup." You could have posted this in the chat forum without telling us your motive.

[Super Butterfly]

The course is on crowdsourcing, so getting others to contribute is a requirement. Most of the information I'm looking for can be gleaned from watching a replay; doing it alone would be tedious (hence crowdsourcing). I apologize for not making that clear.

[MintyTheCat]

I might be a bit old fashioned here but since when was "getting the crowd to do the work for you" the considered 'norm'? Am I that old now with my memories of literally studying Maths for years and hours at a time 'alone' and thinking that was normal?

I think it is a nice idea to get the crowd to do the work for you but I dare say the crowd has less interest in your direct interests.

The crowd at best can be used for data-mining.

I think you had better give us a clearer understanding here.

Why not form your question a little better and turn it into a series of polls and questionnaires that would in some way invite your target group to contribute?

[Drake]

So you're learning about crowdsourcing and decided that the best course of action was to enlist aid for a project that only you apparently have direct interest in? The single most important part in a crowdsourcing application is an established base of people who would be willing to offer aid. This is putting the cart before the horse in the most fundamentally inconducive way possible.

[the_last_shmupper]

I might be a bit old fashioned here but since when was "getting the crowd to do the work for you" the considered 'norm'? Am I that old now with my memories of literally studying Maths for years and hours at a time 'alone' and thinking that was normal?

I think it is a nice idea to get the crowd to do the work for you but I dare say the crowd has less interest in your direct interests.

The crowd at best can be used for data-mining.

I think you had better give us a clearer understanding here.

Why not form your question a little better and turn it into a series of polls and questionnaires that would in some way invite your target group to contribute?

Is math still taught in school?

[Squire Grooktook]

To try and help a bit, I'll just give my own personal opinions on Kamui:

Things I like:

-Like Rayforce, managing enemies in background and foreground gives a nice sense of intensity and chaotic multitasking. The 3 weapons you have to juggle and manage adds another layer of multitasking that brings the sense of chaos up even father.

-Not just bullet patterns. Some nice aggressive enemies in here, some bosses have cool non bullet patterns. Gives it an aggressive, visceral feel at times.

-Last 3 bosses and stages are incredibly cinematic. Nice and intense battles that force you to use all your abilities proficiently.

-On hard mode, some of the best use of taito bendy lasers ever. Really devious use of them where you'll be scrambling like hell to get away from them while not simultaneously crashing into something else.

things I don't like:

-The health system. I feel the sheer dearth of health you have removes all tension from the early game. No matter how poorly you're doing, you're pretty much guaranteed to live until at least the stage 3 boss, and usually quite a bit longer.

-First two bosses also feel a bit samey, pattern wise IMO.

-Survival play is a bit too simple. The beam turns a lot of battles into extremely simplistic and samey exercises in bullet cancelling. Playing for score greatly alleviates this, but I wish survival play was more involved.

-The homing attack is essentially based on timing (charge it up at the right time) than positioning (like Rayforce's close range reticule). I prefer the in depth movement and positioning of Rayforce, personally.

I recommend watching Jaimers video as well for some insight into scoreplay.

[MintyTheCat]

I might be a bit old fashioned here but since when was "getting the crowd to do the work for you" the considered 'norm'? Am I that old now with my memories of literally studying Maths for years and hours at a time 'alone' and thinking that was normal?

I think it is a nice idea to get the crowd to do the work for you but I dare say the crowd has less interest in your direct interests.

The crowd at best can be used for data-mining.

I think you had better give us a clearer understanding here.

Why not form your question a little better and turn it into a series of polls and questionnaires that would in some way invite your target group to contribute?

Is math still taught in school?

Degree level, yes. I dread to think what they teach for Mathematics these days in school.

[the_last_shmupper]

I might be a bit old fashioned here but since when was "getting the crowd to do the work for you" the considered 'norm'? Am I that old now with my memories of literally studying Maths for years and hours at a time 'alone' and thinking that was normal?

I think it is a nice idea to get the crowd to do the work for you but I dare say the crowd has less interest in your direct interests.

The crowd at best can be used for data-mining.

I think you had better give us a clearer understanding here.

Why not form your question a little better and turn it into a series of polls and questionnaires that would in some way invite your target group to contribute?

Is math still taught in school?

Degree level, yes. I dread to think what they teach for Mathematics these days in school.

Here's something, I dated a woman that always counted with her fingers. She blamed her school allowing them all to have calculators all throughout 1st - 12th grade even on tests. Her friends verify that's just how school was for them. None of them can add or subtract, let alone multiply and divide. Well I take that back, judging how many of them have kids, they sure can multiply.

I never really picked up on math until college level. Then something clicked and I use it all the time, but that could be because I'm a programmer. I had to do a few days of trig recently thanks to shmup development.

[MintyTheCat]

Here's something, I dated a woman that always counted with her fingers. She blamed her school allowing them all to have calculators all throughout 1st - 12th grade even on tests. Her friends verify that's just how school was for them. None of them can add or subtract, let alone multiply and divide. Well I take that back, judging how many of them have kids, they sure can multiply.

I never really picked up on math until college level. Then something clicked and I use it all the time, but that could be because I'm a programmer. I had to do a few days of trig recently thanks to shmup development.

Well, tbh it is not the end of the world to use fingers for counting.

I met a guy who grew up in London then moved to where I used to live and at the age of 14 he didn't know what the divide and multiply signs did.

The thing is that there are so many branches of Mathematics that you can be an expert in just one area and be pretty clueless in others.

Trig it part of the basis for Calculus and what we tend to use in Physics and indeed Game dev and especially 3D work. I have no idea how any one would handle graphic programming without Calculus tbh.

Last time I heard they had removed Trig from the UK GCSE syllabus - scary stuff indeed.

[Super Butterfly]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm taking your advice by making a new thread in the general shmups chat; hopefully it is there where I'll resolve all of the issues you brought up.