Control really does matter.

[Super Glob]

If, when you first started playing shmups you used a controller you were already familiar with, it is likely it took you half a year before you started being able to dodge bullets to a good standard (Higher standard you don’t actually dodge bullets, but understand the patterns and place the ship accordingly.).

If you then wish to swap to an Arcade Stick controller, it can take a further half of a year to become capable of using it to a good standard (not moving the ship centimetre steps at a time.).

So if you’re just starting out with shmups, I seriously recommend thinking about what kind of controller you are going to use.
As I’m thinking that maybe starting out (if you’re new.) with the Arcade Stick if that’s the route you would like to take, may save time in the long run.


Brief controller summary.

Analog Stick: Practically useless. Few shmups support it, and precision for tap dodging or correcting mistakes is terrible.
Usable in: Ikaruga, due to not need to dodge bullets at the finer scale.

D-Pad: Very good. Most consoles have a usable one and modding other console pads to work on other consoles is possible.
Advantages come in the form of precision tap dodging without too much practise.
After all you’re just lifting your thumb up and down.
Disadvantages appear when you need accurate free flowing movement around the screen, but it is possible to overcome this.
Usable in: All.

Arcade Stick: Very good+. Almost opposite the D-Pad, free flowing movement is very easy, but tap dodging takes a considerable time to get used to.
I’d recommend getting a stick modded for use on all consoles.
The + is for the fact I feel you can learn to tap dodge to a more accurate level relative to the free flowing movement on a D-Pad.
Usable in: All, most important to get used to one if you’re planning a trip to Japan arcades in the future.




Perhaps this is more for newbies, but I just want to see if this kind of topic will work.

[iatneH]

I think it will be helpful not only for newbies, but also for anyone thinking of making a change over to another control setup. I remember when I made the switch over to arcade sticks (from D-pad), and I was so horrible at it that I almost gave up.

I kept at it and now I'm better with a stick than I could ever hope to be with a pad. Good luck!

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

The analog works pretty well with Gradius 5 when using Type 2. I usually use it for rotating the lasers.

[infested_ysy]

And where's the love for keyboards? :p

[Zero]

And where's the love for keyboards? :p

Meh keyboards IMO arn't good for SHMUPS. I'll take the regular D-pad or arcade stick any day over it. I'm looking forward to getting this baby.

[professor ganson]

Arcade Stick: Almost opposite the D-Pad, free flowing movement is very easy, but tap dodging takes a considerable time to get used to.

This is a very good point: I suppose it took me much of this year to discover this on my own. My own current solution is to stick with the dpad, even if it is more difficult to manage larger, sweeping movements through the field of play. I really need that ultra-precise tapping movement that a dpad affords.
Another disadavantage of the dpad is that the current gen of controllers have kind of sucky dpads: the PS2, GC, and DC all fall short of the ideal by quite a bit.
My recommendations:
PS2: Logitech cordless (readily available, look for it on sale or used)
GC: Hori pad (looks and feels like an NES or SNES pad-- I just got mine today from Play Asia for like $15 and it is easily worth that price).
DC: ASCii pad (similar to the Saturn pad, unbelievably nice product, but rare and so pricey)

[Neon]

Quality stick i.e. Sanwa>Saturn Pad>>>>>>>>>>crappy stick

[TVG]

now that im used to the dual shock (preferably 1 as someone noted since its not analog) i wouldnt trade it for anything else.

saturn pad is cool also, takes less time getting used to, but there's nothing i cant do with the DS, really, if i suck, i suck.

im not going to japan anytime soon, and besides, i can play decently on sticks thanks to these years playing fighters.

yes, quality does matter, try to play with a friggin wingman and tell me how it goes.

xbox pad are shit too, even the smaller ones, it may look like a sat d-pad, but i dare you try and press 7 and 9 (look at your arrow keys to know what directions these are) accurately, good luck playing run'n'guns.

DC pads are okay...they just take an extreme amount of time getting used to, and even then, they're quite sucky and unconfortable.

[magnum opus]

And where's the love for keyboards? :p

Meh keyboards IMO arn't good for SHMUPS.

as some one without a saturn, PS, or access to an arcade i gotta say, i like my keyboard.

never get d-pad thumbs, there's no travel time between opposite directions, you're firing hand can hit multiple buttons easily, tap dodging is just as easy as flowing motion.

[TVG]

keyboard is definitely better than a shitty pad (say, some of those logitech ones or crap like that)

doesnt equal a good pad tho.

yes its cool for multiple button presses, but how many shmups require that?

[Zero]

And where's the love for keyboards? :p

Meh keyboards IMO arn't good for SHMUPS.

as some one without a saturn, PS, or access to an arcade i gotta say, i like my keyboard.

never get d-pad thumbs, there's no travel time between opposite directions, you're firing hand can hit multiple buttons easily, tap dodging is just as easy as flowing motion.

From my perspective since I've been playing games most of my life using the D pad , controlling a shmup with it flows naturally compared to a keyboard. Now using a key board is ok, but when I want perfect movements etc I would rather us the D pad.

Now when it comes to FPS I like me keyboard, but thats another discussion.

[it290]

The problem I have with using a keyboard is that I have to use my right hand for movement. I'm left-handed, and that doesn't work for me. True, I could just use wasd like most FPS games, but it just doesn't feel right with a shooter.

I've been using a Sanwa stick for a while, but I still have problems with taps sometimes. I feel I can handle those better with a good pad, but the overall feel of a good joystick is so much better that it's worth using just for that. With a pad I just can't get into the game as much.

[professor ganson]

keyboard is definitely better than a shitty pad (say, some of those logitech ones or crap like that)

doesnt equal a good pad tho.

If this is a reaction to my recommendation above, then you ought to say something in defense of the idea that the PS2 Logitech cordless is crap. Not only is it really nice to have cordless, but the dpad is ultra responsive, perfect for tap dodging, a very comfortable location and fit for the thumb, just the right size for the thumb, not overly loose or tight feeling... basically everything I want from a dpad. My only concern is longevity: they are known to break. Even the cost is acceptable if you find one used or on sale. But maybe you are talking about some other Logitech product.

[bpe]

When keyboarding with mame, I use 4, 8, 6 on the numeric keypad for left, up, right, and use the down arrow below home/end with my thumb for down (duh). This way you have a finger on every key and lose zero reaction time moving around like with wasd etc Another thing is to put "bomb" on the numeric enter key, so you can rest little finger there..

I just yesterday set up a PS2 with DDP-DOJ, using analog sticks feels "wierd but somewhat ok", but my long term plan is to solder a high quality joystick from places like Mak Japan (ie sold separately and really meant for cabinets) to the PS2 controller, somehow, and see how that works... Oh and then use a PS2->USB convertor to use the contraption with MAME too. Dunno if it'll work out but that might be the ultimate setup.. I hope

[Super Glob]

Forgot to add that most games that you can use the analog stick with, aren’t programmed to take advantage of analog control, making control even fuzzier.


I’ll also add that getting used to your controller of choice really helps with your ability to look ahead of your ship/ top of screen.
This is probably because your brain has freed up some resources.


I couldn’t use a keyboard, I like to be able to move my ship in circular motions every once in a while.

[LSU]

I love the Saturn pads - I have converter boxes for several of the other consoles so I can plug 'em in to those too.

Favourite stick for console shmups is the Hori Fighting Stick SS.

[ForteMP3]

There are some cases where I think an analog stick can be useful, IF the game supports it proper.

Gradius V, for example, lets you move at slower speeds by lightly tilting the stick. Difficult to do in a shooter? Yes. But at least it means you have a slower movement option in case your Vic Viper's hopped up on Speed Ups.

For the most part though, I also find a D-Pad is good.

[D]

I going to throw away my arcade cabinet and all of my joypads and I'm going to buy a keyboard.


NOT

[Jedah Doma]

I never thought I would actually see people post about keyboards being good. Folks, keyboards are for FPS and RTS. Trust me folks, you're never going to get anywhere near as good with a keyboard as you would a pad or joystick.

The keyboard lovers make me ROFL.

I currently use a SF Anniversary pad for my PS2 shooters. It's not exactly like a Saturn pad, but it's close and plays nicely. Other then that, I have a Magic Box for all T3H ROMZ so I can use my Saturn pad on my computer.

[magnum opus]

I couldn’t use a keyboard, I like to be able to move my ship in circular motions every once in a while.

you do know that d-pads are digital, they have a total 8 directions, same as four arrow keys on a keyboard. you can do circles just as easily on a keyboard as on a d-pad you just use a couple fingers instead of a single thumb.

Trust me folks, you're never going to get anywhere near as good with a keyboard as you would a pad or joystick.

psh, says you. gimme one good reason why

[8 1/2]

Ever since I started working as a game tester my hands have been killing me when I try to play games at home. I play mostly on an Xbox at work, and when I get home my fingers and thumbs are really cramped from pressing those triggers and clicking in the analog sticks all day. I've always been a control pad kid, but in an attempt to find a way to play games outside of work without discomfort I bought the LE of Mark of the Wolves. It came with a PS2 version of the classic Neo Geo stick which is the only stick I've ever spent time with. At first it felt pretty foreign but I fell into using comfortably after a few games and now I feel totally at home with it. That said, I can't play at all with the standard U.S. bat-shaped sticks (Hori et al). It absolutely has to be a clicky stick or I find myself just bumbling about.

[freddiebamboo]

I have to say that I get more accuracy from d-pads than sticks these days.

I've got a hori pro, and I reckon it does add to the whole experience - but my scores are nearly always better with the regular pad. Diagonals I always find hard to come by with a stick and some patterns are easier to dodge on the diagonal axis as opposed to the standard issue left to right (if that makes sense )

[zimmy]

Wow, keyboards are gettin more lovin than analog sticks! I may not be that good, but I still prefer the ease and comfort of an analog stick. Movement just feels more free and natural when all you gotta do is move your thumb around. With d-pads, you essentially have 8 buttons, which is not always bad, but still, its requires a tad bit more thought(your thumb now has to move AND push down)and can delay your reaction a bit. And not to mention how variable the quality of a d-pad can be. d-pads are either too sensitive or not sensitive enough, and I especially cant stand those damn circular d-pads. I have never encountered a good circular d-pad, and never will, as the concept itself is flawed in its most basic form. They're an attempt at making d-pads more analog and allowing diagonal motion more, but they just fail miserably and often diagonal motion is TOO easy(I'd say 75+% of my input is nondiagonal, and the controller should reflect that). Somebody mentioned the logitech cordless as a good option for a ps2 d-pad and I cannot be more horrified, I couldn't stand that thing and would often replace it with a regular controller, despite having considerably less range due to lots of wire tangling behind my uncle's TV.

[professor ganson]

I still prefer the ease and comfort of an analog stick.

If you prefer analog control for shmups, then you are not in a position to appreciate the quality of the PS2 Logitech dpad. Hence, I will not bother responding to your further comment:

Somebody mentioned the logitech cordless as a good option for a ps2 d-pad and I cannot be more horrified, I couldn't stand that thing and would often replace it with a regular controller, despite having considerably less range due to lots of wire tangling behind my uncle's TV.

[D]

*Enough with the keyboard madness*

Seriously, how would everyone like to lay with a joystick, I mean on your lap? or on a table? That's what allways bother me about sticks, they are not secured, whereas on a cab it is. I think a cab is the best way to play, you don't have to worry about holding on to anything.

[TVG]

ganson: no, i meant those for the PC, i think the wingman is a logitech pad, and the wingman is absolute shit, so here goes.
most PC pads suck ass. in fact my gf has one of those cordless ones, i tried it for tekken but decided it wasnt better than the DS, so i didnt bother for shmups.
ill try.

D: yup, confort, not to mention noise, ever had your neighbors knock on your door asking you to stop it because they want to sleep while you wanted to practice some combos?

as for the keyboard people, they probably never tried a good pad.

[Icarus]

Saturn pads all the way. Got one for my PC and PS2 as well.
Now, if only I can find an adaptor to use one of them on my supergun... (since the NeoCD "thumbstick" is shit for precision control)

[Jedah Doma]

Saturn pads all the way. Got one for my PC and PS2 as well.

Quoted for truth

Saturn pads>6 button Genesis>arcade joystick>SNES pad>NES pad>Atari pad>flight joystick>mouse>touching two bare wires together>keyboard

Keyboard sucks pretty bad.

[Diabollokus]

'' Touching 2 wires together> Keyboard'' Absolutely priceless.

After about 5 years of DC pad I'm rather content with it, however when I try to play megadrive ans snes roms the pad is awful dam its bad for gigawing.

Sat pad all the way, Lack of ps diagonals puts me off,

[sffan]

"Sega Playstation" pad for my PS2,
Saitek P880 for my PC.

These are what I've settled on for shmups. Both have great D-pads.