Is Raiden the only major shmup series still alive today?

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

I'm wondering, aside from Galaga, is Raiden the only well known shmup series that is still alive today? I mean, look at the fact that there will be a Raiden 25th anniversary project for Xbox One next year, I can't think of any other shmup series that has survived that long, besides Galaga of course. What do you all think?

[cave hermit]

Obsession is unhealthy you know; You should play some Yagawa games for a change!

[Squire Grooktook]

Touhou has harnessed the power of erotic fan art. It will live forever.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Obsession is unhealthy you know; You should play some Yagawa games for a change!

I am too severely addicted to Raiden, and I am not a member of the church of Yagawa, I am a member of the church of Seibu Kaihatsu.

Touhou has harnessed the power of erotic fan art. It will live forever.

Seriously though. Touhou's first release was in 1996, 6 years after Raiden.

[Squire Grooktook]

Touhou has harnessed the power of erotic fan art. It will live forever.

Seriously though. Touhou's first release was in 1996, 6 years after Raiden.

And it's still alive.

[Lord Satori]

ffs, you guys. Quit with these "shmups are dead" threads. This is bullshit.

[GrantWindsor]

DonPachi would probably like to have a word with you.

And Gradius. No matter if they dress it up like Salamander, Parodius or Otomedius, it's all still Gradius at heart.

And Darius. DariusBurst hit home and arcade.

And Namco was already mentioned. Xevious Resurrection?

No matter if the releases are infrequent, there are still a bunch of IPs kicking around.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yes, to be fair R-Type is the only series that can really be considered "dead". Gradius ReBirth and Darius Burst were fairly recent. Nothing has been released lately, but the series has had longer hiatuses. I wouldn't be surprised if Konami some day or other just hands the Contra/Castlevania/Gradius ip's to Treasure or Wayforward again to make something. Wouldn't be surprised to see another Darius one of these days either.

Dodonpachi may or may not be concluded though. SDOJ was supposed to be the series swan song, but than again so was DOJ. We'll just have to see how it goes with Cave.

[professor ganson]

Space Invaders - I fully expect more in this series
Xevious - I'm far less confident that we'll get another. Resurrection was cool, though. And Arrangement was awesome.

[Strikers1945guy]

Ahh the professor is right, sorry OP I guess raiden isn't the oldest shmup series with new entries.

[iconoclast]

I wouldn't be surprised if Konami some day or other just hands the Contra/Castlevania/Gradius ip's to Wayforward again to make something.

A fate worse than death

[cave hermit]

I wouldn't be surprised if Konami some day or other just hands the Contra/Castlevania/Gradius ip's to Wayforward again to make something.

A fate worse than death

WayForward may have put out some games of questionable quality lately, but you can't deny that Contra 4 was a fantastic game.

[Mortificator]

^ The screen gap drove me crazy.

[iconoclast]

Contra 4 is the best game I've played from WayForward, but I don't think I'd call it good. Hard Corps, Hard Corps: Uprising, and Shattered Soldier are vastly superior, and I'd take Contra 3 and the two NES games over it as well. WayForward is good for their sprite work and for hiring Jake Kaufman to compose their soundtracks. That's about it.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Death to the franchises.

The obsession with a "it's a brand name, so people will buy it" stifles creativity. Series get dragged out all over the shop when an initial entry would suffice, or hit a peak later on and attempts to stretch that peak are hilarious (hi Resident Evil).

Besides, yeah Donpachi. Raiden 4 was like 2007.

[Plasmo]

Mars Matrix is still alive.

Up to the present day.

Go play it.

Love.

[Squire Grooktook]

Contra 4 is the best game I've played from WayForward, but I don't think I'd call it good. Hard Corps, Hard Corps: Uprising, and Shattered Soldier are vastly superior, and I'd take Contra 3 and the two NES games over it as well. WayForward is good for their sprite work and for hiring Jake Kaufman to compose their soundtracks. That's about it.

Personally I could not disagree more. Contra 4 is probably the second best entry in the franchise after Contra 3. The pacing, stage variety, and level design are fantastic, and I really enjoy that they returned to more of an emphasis on actual running and gunning instead of the "boss fest" gameplay that started with Genesis Hard Corps (a game I cannot enjoy no matter how hard I try, though Shattered Soldier is a bit better for me). I would take Contra 4 over pretty much any run and gun shooter (Metal Slug included) that isn't Contra 3.

I never had the slightest issue with the screen gap either.

Contra 3 however, will always remain the greatest run and gun shooter ever made.

[LordHypnos]

Mars Matrix is still alive.

Up to the present day.

Go play it.

Love.

[near_miss]

Any excuse for me to post about RSG...3?

Otherwise, this:

ffs, you guys. Quit with these "shmups are dead" threads. This is bullshit.

[Skykid]

Contra 4 is the best game I've played from WayForward, but I don't think I'd call it good. Hard Corps, Hard Corps: Uprising, and Shattered Soldier are vastly superior, and I'd take Contra 3 and the two NES games over it as well. WayForward is good for their sprite work and for hiring Jake Kaufman to compose their soundtracks. That's about it.

Contra 4 is fucking amazing.

Uprising is a bag of total shit. Absolutely pales in comparison.

[ciox]

Yes, to be fair R-Type is the only series that can really be considered "dead". Gradius ReBirth and Darius Burst were fairly recent.

Funny thing but R-Type Dimensions and R-Type Tactics II both came out after Gradius Rebirth far as I can see (2009), the problem is that even the team for R-Type Final has disbanded. From what Irem-ember the director of R-Type Final created a new studio called Granzella with some other Irem employees that are likely to have worked on the game with him, unfortunately that studio seems like the only hope for a new R-Type game, they would have to both get the IP and stop being stubborn about the whole "Final" thing.

[Squire Grooktook]

I like Uprising and 4. But 4 is indeed a work of art. Only complaint I could possibly make is that the boss battles aren't on the same level as 3, but the stages are some of the most inspired and well designed in the franchise. Which is really saying something.

Yes, to be fair R-Type is the only series that can really be considered "dead". Gradius ReBirth and Darius Burst were fairly recent.

Funny thing but R-Type Dimensions and R-Type Tactics II both came out after Gradius Rebirth far as I can see (2009), the problem is that even the team for R-Type Final has disbanded. From what Irem-ember the director of R-Type Final created a new studio called Granzella with some other Irem employees that are likely to have worked on the game with him, unfortunately that studio seems like the only hope for a new R-Type game, they would have to both get the IP and stop being stubborn about the whole "Final" thing.

Well, Dimensions is a remake and Tactics is a spin off game, so they haven't really broken their promise of "no new R-Type games". Wouldn't be surprised if it a revival happened, but I think it's definitely more unlikely than a new Gradius/Darius/Dodonpachi at this point.

[iconoclast]

What knocks Contra 3 down a peg for me are the overhead stages. If they replaced those with two regular stages, I'd put it right up there with HC/HCU/SS.

I get that the boss rush nature of the later Contra games wont appeal to everyone. The tiny stages of HC only exist to move you from one setpiece to another, and SS isn't much different. That's just one reason why I think HCU is the best of the bunch. It has lengthy stages full of various secrets, enemy setups, platforming sections, and loads of boss fights. It's the best of both worlds. I found Contra 4 dull and uninspired in comparison, and when I cleared it I felt like I never needed to touch it again.

[Heavy Viper]

I find it a bit baffling that some folks actually liked Hard Corps: Uprising. The movement was astoundingly slow and stiff, enemies gobbled up bullets as if they came straight out of a euroshmup, the stages were mostly vast, dull stretches of flat land...everything just got slower and longer the more I went on. I bared it until the fourth stage, I believe - couldn't take the glacial pace after that. Even in terms of aesthetics it's pretty drab - surprising, considering its ArcSys.

Contra 4 definitely has issues, such as the aforementioned screen gap, but it controls so tightly and doesn't outstay its welcome. I think it has more of a "Contra soul" than HCU, in any case. Plus, Probotectors as secret characters. C'moooon~

[GrantWindsor]

What knocks Contra 3 down a peg for me are the overhead stages. If they replaced those with two regular stages, I'd put it right up there with HC/HCU/SS.

That would be Contra Advance: The Alien Wars EX on GBA, though the Hard Corps stages hardly blended seamlessly with the Contra III stages. Personally, I have never had a problem with the overhead stages. They were there only to show off the background scaling and rotation capabilities of the graphics hardware. They were actually pretty stunning when I first played the game on its release date, though I had been skeptical after seeing pre-release screenshots. Now, not so much, but I still play the game often, and the entire game, including those overhead stages, is still as fresh, balanced and amazing, to me, as it was over two decades ago. Conversely, I hardly ever play Contra 4; I wasn't crazy about it when I bought it, and time hasn't changed my feelings about it.

[iconoclast]

The movement was astoundingly slow and stiff

Sprint, air dash, vault, tackle, etc. The game is as fast as you want it to be. I've never seen a 2D action/platform game with superior movement - even Strider 2 is outclassed.

enemies gobbled up bullets

Only the bosses feel damage spongey if you're fighting them with nothing but the standard peashooter. Bring a weapon and the damage is perfectly fine (in fact, pretty much all of the weapons are overpowered once you level them up).

the stages were mostly vast, dull stretches of flat land

That's because you're expected to use all of the movement options you've been provided. Sprinting through packs of enemies, air dashing between platforms, vaulting over obstacles, and smashing through exploding canisters/walls/sandbags is immensely satisfying. The large stages help keep the game interesting on replays because there's always new tricks to learn that help you further optimize your route.

Not to pick on you, but saying you stopped after stage 4 shows you only scratched the surface of the game, which I believe is common among people who dislike it. HCU is more complex than most other run and guns and as such, it takes time and effort to fully appreciate. It's not perfect, but it is astonishingly good for ASW's first take on the genre.

[Mortificator]

WayForward is good for their sprite work and for hiring Jake Kaufman to compose their soundtracks.

I think the amazing music made me overestimate the game's quality for some time.

the stages are some of the most inspired and well designed in the franchise.

Most of the stages are based on ones from the original Contra, with a few from Super Contra, Operation C and Contra III. They're reuses of the theme and not copy-pasted, sure, but there's too much homage relative to originality.

[Heavy Viper]

Sprint, air dash, vault, tackle, etc. The game is as fast as you want it to be. I've never seen a 2D action/platform game with superior movement - even Strider 2 is outclassed.

True, but if they saw reason to add so many dash/speed-related techniques, wouldn't it have just been better to make the base movement speed faster?

Only the bosses feel damage spongey if you're fighting them with nothing but the standard peashooter. Bring a weapon and the damage is perfectly fine (in fact, pretty much all of the weapons are overpowered once you level them up).

Yeah, my biggest problem was the bosses. I'll try harder with the weapon upgrades next time I feel like booting it up.

That's because you're expected to use all of the movement options you've been provided. Sprinting through packs of enemies, air dashing between platforms, vaulting over obstacles, and smashing through exploding canisters/walls/sandbags is immensely satisfying. The large stages help keep the game interesting on replays because there's always new tricks to learn that help you further optimize your route.

Perhaps, it does gel with the advanced movement techniques. But I still say the stages could have used a bit more variety in their structure - some vertical sections or rotating screen shenanigans, for example.

Not to pick on you, but saying you stopped after stage 4 shows you only scratched the surface of the game, which I believe is common among people who dislike it. HCU is more complex than most other run and guns and as such, it takes time and effort to fully appreciate. It's not perfect, but it is astonishingly good for ASW's first take on the genre.

Not at all, that's what discussion is about - discussing! I'm interested in giving it another try at some point, so I'll try and approach it with that in mind. Maybe I was expecting something a bit more bombastic and dynamic like the PS2 Contras. Though really, I think you can just chalk it up to me being old-fashioned. :B

[Despatche]

i really like that a shmup topic turned into a contra topic, it's like we adopted the actual meaning of "stg" or something.

series don't mean that much, which also means transatlanticfoe's theory is a bit off. a "series" can be very vague, even with its "main entries" alone; tf's scenario is caused by bad devs and is not a general rule. and of course there are the tons of games that really are part of a series in all but name.

a good example of all of this is, ironically, thunder force.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Thunder Force had an entry too many and where is it now? It took until III to hit gold and only held onto it for IV before declining. It's an example of not giving up on something after the first couple of entries but it still went on to lose the magic of the series' highlights.

Series and franchises get stretched out when they should have been left after a given point. It's more noticable in other genres and indeed media outside video games, because there aren't that many series of shmups that went past 3 entries.