Bought A Bootleg PCB, Thought It was Genuine

[retrogamingjohnny]

Hey guys how's it going. Got my first bootleg pcb. It wasn't until I actually got it that I realized I've been deceived. This is the image the seller used on the listing.

The seller described this as "Shadow Dancer PCB BOARD From SEGA 1989" not mentioning anywhere that this is a bootleg. This description is a big trap, which I fell.

This is the listing url http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-BOARD-ARCAD ... true&rt=nc

A shot I took of the bootleg Shadow Dancer PCB once I received it

There's no Sega bearing logo, or any marking that identifies it as a genuine pcb. Not even the typical JAMMA logo on these kinds of pcbs can be seen. Also the chips are labeled Goldstar, which are a red flag.

Notice the pcb on the top is the same size as the bottom one, whereas in an original the top one is much smaller


A more detailed close up. Notice the chip label "Shadow Dancer" is hand written.


Here is a picture of a genuine Shadow Dancer PCB I found on google


We can see the Sega logo clearly and a sticker identifying this a Shadow Dancer as well as many other serial numbers.

So I think there's no doubt what I bought is a bootleg.
Anyone care to confirm that? While I wish no wrong upon anyone, I really got fooled this time. And yes, this was a learning experience and I will make sure that what I buy in the future is genuine. Your comments will help me on my case against the seller. Thanks.

[Zets13]

Can you link to the particular auction listing?

[retrogamingjohnny]

Can you link to the particular auction listing?

Yes. Right here http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-BOARD-ARCAD ... true&rt=nc

[blizzz]

The "Exceptionally poor lying seller!" feedback might have also been a red flag.

[Zets13]

Yeah, he does not seem to give any indication that it is a bootleg that I can see, so you might have some room to make a case if he won't refund.

For future reference, this site has a decent library of PCB photos that you can check:

http://www.crazykong.com/pcbs/

[retrogamingjohnny]

The "Exceptionally poor lying seller!" feedback might have also been a red flag.

Lol that's an awesome feedback.

[retrogamingjohnny]

Yeah, he does not seem to give any indication that it is a bootleg that I can see, so you might have some room to make a case if he won't refund.

For future reference, this site has a decent library of PCB photos that you can check:

http://www.crazykong.com/pcbs/

Yes that's why I want you guys to leave me confirmation that this is a bootleg so I can use it in my case. I'll appreciate the support.

For future reference, this site has a decent library of PCB photos that you can check:

http://www.crazykong.com/pcbs/

Thanks for that.

[Zets13]

Yes, comparing it to the official Sega board, it is certainly a bootleg.

[alamone]

Easiest giveaway is to check the JAMMA edge connector. If they didn't bother to cut the notch for the key,
it's most likely a bootleg. I don't know any real boards that don't have that notched out.

[retrogamingjohnny]

Easiest giveaway is to check the JAMMA edge connector. If they didn't bother to cut the notch for the key,
it's most likely a bootleg. I don't know any real boards that don't have that notched out.

Yes I noticed that when I got it. It seemed odd.

[system11]

Obvious bootleg, that seller says 'original' when it is, otherwise assume bootleg. Also he sold me a broken board which clearly hadn't been tested for a very long time. I should have left him a neg or contacted him about it but never got around to it, it happens so often these days I just fix things and forget about it.

[retrogamingjohnny]

Obvious bootleg, that seller says 'original' when it is, otherwise assume bootleg. Also he sold me a broken board which clearly hadn't been tested for a very long time. I should have left him a neg or contacted him about it but never got around to it, it happens so often these days I just fix things and forget about it.

I usually check and make sure what I am buying is genuine. It just happens this time I got careless.
I warned him that I will bring it to Ebay if he doesn't refund me. The listing itself is a violation of Ebay's selling rules.

[system11]

I'll have to be honest, I think you're asking him to give money back because of your mistake, the only reasonable way would be if you post it back and get a refund of the item price. It's very cheap (expect to pay north of 100 euros for a real one), it might be less drama to just re-sell it.

[retrogamingjohnny]

I'll have to be honest, I think you're asking him to give money back because of your mistake

Honestly I don't think this my mistake. It says "Shadow Dancer PCB BOARD From SEGA 1989". It is not. Sega had nothing to do with this.

the only reasonable way would be if you post it back and get a refund of the item price.

The only reasonable way would be if the seller paid for return shipping. I have no issue with returning it.

it might be less drama to just re-sell it

I do not sell bootlegs. It is illegal.

[bobrocks95]

eBay is biased so much towards buyers that I'm sure you can easily get a refund.

[Jono]

That is a LOT of windowed EPROMS

[brownvim]

I'm sure eBay will back you, open a dispute.

[system11]

I'll have to be honest, I think you're asking him to give money back because of your mistake

Honestly I don't think this my mistake. It says "Shadow Dancer PCB BOARD From SEGA 1989". It is not. Sega had nothing to do with this.

the only reasonable way would be if you post it back and get a refund of the item price.

The only reasonable way would be if the seller paid for return shipping. I have no issue with returning it.

it might be less drama to just re-sell it

I do not sell bootlegs. It is illegal.

You have a lot to learn about the arcade scene....

1) On ebay, bootlegs are almost never labelled as such because ebay pulls them. It has been this way for the past decade or so. That's why you look at the picture. It's better than not being able to buy them, some people want a cheap Shadow Dancer. Most if not all forums allow bootleg sales which meet certain conditions. Shmups has one of the strictest rulesets and that would have been allowed here.

2) If a seller is amenable to an item return because you made a mistake through carelessness or a lack of knowledge, which you did, you shouldn't expect them to cover the postage, it's not fair.

3) Never burn your bridges unless you really mean to. Based on the way you handled yourself in this thread, personally I wouldn't want to deal with you.

Under ebay rules since the item isn't strictly allowed in the first place certainly you can demand a refund/return, but is it actually fair to do so? It's like the abuse of distance selling rules in the UK where you could buy a film from Amazon, watch it and then return it saying you changed your mind. It's within the law but it's not ethical.

You can always post in the hardware section if you have doubts about whether a PCB is genuine/bootleg in future. Some can be very difficult to tell or live in grey areas. There are several experts here and on other forums who will happily answer such questions.

[retrogamingjohnny]

I'll have to be honest, I think you're asking him to give money back because of your mistake

Honestly I don't think this my mistake. It says "Shadow Dancer PCB BOARD From SEGA 1989". It is not. Sega had nothing to do with this.

the only reasonable way would be if you post it back and get a refund of the item price.

The only reasonable way would be if the seller paid for return shipping. I have no issue with returning it.

it might be less drama to just re-sell it

I do not sell bootlegs. It is illegal.

You have a lot to learn about the arcade scene....

1) On ebay, bootlegs are almost never labelled as such because ebay pulls them. It has been this way for the past decade or so. That's why you look at the picture. It's better than not being able to buy them, some people want a cheap Shadow Dancer. Most if not all forums allow bootleg sales which meet certain conditions. Shmups has one of the strictest rulesets and that would have been allowed here.

2) If a seller is amenable to an item return because you made a mistake through carelessness or a lack of knowledge, which you did, you shouldn't expect them to cover the postage, it's not fair.

3) Never burn your bridges unless you really mean to. Based on the way you handled yourself in this thread, personally I wouldn't want to deal with you.

Under ebay rules since the item isn't strictly allowed in the first place certainly you can demand a refund/return, but is it actually fair to do so? It's like the abuse of distance selling rules in the UK where you could buy a film from Amazon, watch it and then return it saying you changed your mind. It's within the law but it's not ethical.

You can always post in the hardware section if you have doubts about whether a PCB is genuine/bootleg in future. Some can be very difficult to tell or live in grey areas. There are several experts here and on other forums who will happily answer such questions.

I made it explicitly clear that I was careless. I never said that I was right. The whole purpose of this post was to share an experience from which other members could benefit from. I am inexperienced and have always accepted it. That's one of the reasons I joined this board is so I can learn from others. I'm not one who is conceited and claims to know things I don't. If I knew everything, I wouldn't be here. I know I wasn't 100% careful, but the seller also violated a rule, whether it is taken seriously or not. It is named in Ebay's rules that counterfeits, replicas and unauthorized copies are not allowed as listings. Whether they enforce it or not, and what this or other boards allow are no concern of mine. I wasn't trying to abuse of anyone, just trying to get my purchase back. I don't want to deal with you. You're the one who bumped into my post. I love this board and appreciate all the help it's good members have given me. I learned a lot from them.

[Ed Oscuro]

1) On ebay, bootlegs are almost never labelled as such because ebay pulls them. It has been this way for the past decade or so. That's why you look at the picture. It's better than not being able to buy them, some people want a cheap Shadow Dancer. Most if not all forums allow bootleg sales which meet certain conditions. Shmups has one of the strictest rulesets and that would have been allowed here.

You wouldn't have allowed him to sell it as "from SEGA."

Likewise, lots of people would have chimed in to point out it was a boot from the hour it was posted. A buyer looking at eBay doesn't get that kind of community response. Hence eBay's stricter rules on bootlegs are a good protection to the buyer, beyond protecting themselves from potential liability. That said, I wouldn't have minded so much if the seller sold the boot on eBay - it's the willful (or ignorant?) misidentification of the board as legitimate that is the problem here. Surprised you draw the conclusion that the buyer is the one not to be trusted, after you share a story of being victimized by the seller's apparent negligence (which is putting the best spin on it).

[retrogamingjohnny]

1) On ebay, bootlegs are almost never labelled as such because ebay pulls them. It has been this way for the past decade or so. That's why you look at the picture. It's better than not being able to buy them, some people want a cheap Shadow Dancer. Most if not all forums allow bootleg sales which meet certain conditions. Shmups has one of the strictest rulesets and that would have been allowed here.

You wouldn't have allowed him to sell it as "from SEGA."

Likewise, lots of people would have chimed in to point out it was a boot from the hour it was posted. A buyer looking at eBay doesn't get that kind of community response. Hence eBay's stricter rules on bootlegs are a good protection to the buyer, beyond protecting themselves from potential liability. That said, I wouldn't have minded so much if the seller sold the boot on eBay - it's the willful (or ignorant?) misidentification of the board as legitimate that is the problem here. Surprised you draw the conclusion that the buyer is the one not to be trusted, after you share a story of being victimized by the seller's apparent negligence (which is putting the best spin on it).

Thank you. You took a lot of words I was minding to say.

[darcagn]

[snip]

I'm not into the arcade hardware scene at all. But the onus wouldn't be on me or anyone else to "have a lot to learn" other than knowing the standard eBay rules. I always look at items thoroughly before I buy, but if I buy something bootleg (anything at all, arcade hardware or not) off of eBay and I wasn't expecting it, you better believe it's going back. I don't personally have a moral problem with using ROMs or bootlegs (that are adequately low price), but it amazes me that a poster here would purchase a bootleg unknowingly and you would deem him the immoral person for wanting to return it. If someone is selling bootlegs on eBay knowingly against the rules, then he should understand the risks that come with such a practice.

[cools]

Beginner buyer mistake, but one that anyone selling a bootleg on eBay should expect to happen. Seller is clearly experienced with the rules on eBay. The item shouldn't be on there in the first place, so they should provide a full refund including the postage price.

If the seller wants it back then it gets returned at their cost.

Ethics don't come into it.

It's like the abuse of distance selling rules in the UK where you could buy a film from Amazon, watch it and then return it saying you changed your mind. It's within the law but it's not ethical.

Distance Selling Regulations no longer apply. This changed recently and is now handled by the Consumer Contracts Regulations. http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... egulations

You can no longer change your mind on certain products if they have been opened.