Shmups with best fast dodging?

[Squire Grooktook]

When I say fast dodging, I don't mean that the bullets are fast or that you have to react to them fast, but rather the patterns are designed in such a way that you have to move about all over the place extremely quickly to dodge them (no tap dodging or micro dodging in place etc.). Unfocused dodging requiring patterns/high move speed shmups with satisfying patterns/etc.

Kind of interested in these kind of patterns/dodging right now.

[emphatic]

Slap Fight?

[Cagar]

Dodonpachi Saidaioujou excluding bosses.

[Plasmo]

Everything by Psikyo.

[Kollision]

Any Raiden game, especially from chapter 2 onwards.

[chum]

When I say fast dodging, I don't mean that the bullets are fast or that you have to react to them fast, but rather the patterns are designed in such a way that you have to move about all over the place extremely quickly to dodge them (no tap dodging or micro dodging in place etc.). Unfocused dodging requiring patterns/high move speed shmups with satisfying patterns/etc.

Kind of interested in these kind of patterns/dodging right now.

The only games like this that spring to mind are touhou 3 (faster and chaotic) and touhou 9 (denser) both require you to move around a lot to control the game, just make sure to ignore the non-lunatic modes

most games with fast bullets just aim them at you all the time so you end up doing a lot of tap dodging

[Herr Schatten]

Everything by Psikyo.

/end thread

[Obiwanshinobi]

Sonic Wings Special in tate. Where, admittedly, your play style may vary depending on the fighter. (For instance, one fighter's bomb "stops the time" for a while, so in co-op, when the other one is a deadly point-blanker, I imagine it plays somewhat unlike Psikyo shmups).

[chum]

Everything by Psikyo.

/end thread

Psikyo doesn't sound right at all... the bullets are fast but that's it. There's a lot of waiting in place in the games and a lot of microtapping

Dangun sounds more like something he might be after but I doubt he doesn't already know about that game. Fast movespeed which you have to utilize to quickly take out enemies to get more disco men, and these disco men totally flood the screen so you have to move around a lot just to collect them all (which is a must)

[LordHypnos]

I know you already know about it, and possibly have some other reservations about it, but Mars Matrix totally makes you move all over the screen, especially when trying to score. In my experience anyway. There are some specific parts where this isn't the case, but there's a lot where it is.

[Kollision]

bingo!

what the OP is looking for is Master of Weapon

[Obiwanshinobi]

Actually OP makes me think of Caravans.
Some shmups (in later stages) have fast background scrolling sections where I feel I need to move fast or else. Namely the 2nd space stage of Raiden III and... 2nd (?) stage of Zanac Special.

[d3vak]

I will dare to say "Raiden Fighters Jet"...Holy crap I find that game hard and addictive...

[Plasmo]

Everything by Psikyo.

/end thread

Psikyo doesn't sound right at all... the bullets are fast but that's it. There's a lot of waiting in place in the games and a lot of microtapping

Maybe exclude Gunbird 2 and Dragon Blaze (but most of the time you're macroing too there).

Psikyo is about macro dodging all the time since the hitbox is huge as fuck.

[LordHypnos]

Psikyo games are definately way more about macrododging than micrododging, but I don't know if I've felt that they make you move around the screen a lot to the same degree as Mars Matrix. They're more about being super aggressive and taking out big enemies before they are a threat. You'll typically be herding bullets constantly (and thus moving back and forth across the screen), but in mars matrix you're just moving all over the screen. IDK. I don't have as much experience with Psikyo games as some others, but that's just my impression. It might get crazier in later stages (I've never made it to those. lol)

Watch some good stage 3 Mars Matrixing to see what I mean (not totally sure if this is what OP means, of course). That video is even with breaking the chain at a relatively early point, too (not that I could do better by any means).

[Pretas]

Feveron. Fast, constant movement is necessary throughout the entire game to avoid losing any androids.

[Aquas]

All Batrider bosses on high rank, shit will wake you up!

[mastermx]

Two games spring to mind, DOJ Death label, and Dangun Feveron. Both will have your wrists sore... In the good kind of way.

[Lyv]

Psikyo games are definately way more about macrododging than micrododging, but I don't know if I've felt that they make you move around the screen a lot to the same degree as Mars Matrix.

Gunbird 2 and Dragon Blaze are probably the ones that require the most "fly-all-around-the-screen" among Psikyo games, since you have to go close-range to destroy ennemies (also, micrododging suicide bullets is a really bad idea). I don't know anything about Mars Matrix though, so I can't judge for this one.

I also agree on Touhou 3 and 9, it's not really macrododging, but you have to move a lot/unfocused pretty much all the time.

[Squire Grooktook]

Psikyo is about macro dodging all the time since the hitbox is huge as fuck.

Yeah, exactly. Seems like you really have to dance around the patterns and bullets in Psikyo games rather than squeeze through tight gaps most of the time.

I find games with larger hitboxes tend to encourage faster movement better, since you have to move farther to avoid bullets (and thus a focus mode is less intuitive). It's interesting though when games with small-ish hitboxes pull fast movement off well, since you kind of get the best of both worlds there with complex sight reading and frantic movement.


And yeah, Dangun definitely came to mind. Personal picks for me right now would be

Cho Ren Sha 68k (especially on hard, since you have to move very quickly to avoid letting purple lasers cut off escape routes)
Dangun Feveron
Dogyuun

[Bananamatic]

ketsui ura

[Obiwanshinobi]

Dangun can be played without collecting many disco men. It's a scoring technique, not necessary to get anywhere.
In the aforementioned Sonic Wings Special, however, money give you more points if you grab them off the upper part of screen (not sure about phraseology here). I found collecting disco men in Dangun more fun; just saying neither quite counts as dodging, technically.

[Squire Grooktook]

Dangun can be played without collecting many disco men. It's a scoring technique, not necessary to get anywhere.
In the aforementioned Sonic Wings Special, however, money give you more points if you grab them off the upper part of screen (not sure about phraseology here). I found collecting disco men in Dangun more fun; just saying neither quite counts as dodging, technically.

It's not just the disco men in Dangun though. The whole game is kind of based around enemies appearing from all sides of the screen and kind of forcing you to scramble to keep them at a manageable level. Some of the bosses also have some interesting ways of keeping you moving, though not quite as much.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I think of Dangun and Raiden Fighters as "manic" (moreso than usual bullet hell fare), but it's the games that seem to "move faster", not me (a lot like the fast scrolling sections I've mentioned). That said, I tend to choose slower "ships" in shmups, so even the default one at default speed possibly moves faster than what I usually play.

[ED-057]

Cho Ren Sha 68k

[Gaia]

ketsui ura

I think he's asking about game modes he can actually play tho.

[Pretas]

Dangun can be played without collecting many disco men. It's a scoring technique, not necessary to get anywhere.

If you're okay with hearing an endless sequence of piano clangs and "S.O.S.!"

Then again, some Feveron players can seemingly tolerate the audio from the Uo Poko cat.

[Jeneki]

Stop f around and just get Kyukyoku Tiger.

[Squire Grooktook]

I know you already know about it, and possibly have some other reservations about it, but Mars Matrix totally makes you move all over the screen, especially when trying to score. In my experience anyway. There are some specific parts where this isn't the case, but there's a lot where it is.

Oh believe me, I have no reservations against Mars Matrix. It's definitely a great game, I just haven't gotten into it yet (same with a lot of shmups here like ddp:Soj and Dragon Blaze). And yeah that one definitely fits the bill from what I've played.

All Batrider bosses on high rank, shit will wake you up!

Yeah, this is a great pick. The patterns in that game are amazing fun.

[Lilium]

ketsui ura

I think he's asking about game modes he can actually play tho.

If you wanna play Ketsui Ura, just set up some savestates. Won't be official no but its readily available for those who wants to play it.