How would you like to see shmupping develop?

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:52 am

In the near/distant future?

I think there is still much potential, but what would you like to see that hasnt been done before? Or that hasnt been done enough.

Obviously there is an improvement in hardware, which could lead to more complex gameplay(and maybe AI too?) and sharper more detailed graphics(which would be nice). Then theres the design of the gameplay itself, what potential is there here?

D · Post by D » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:36 pm

What I would like to see is nothing that hasn't been done before.
It's like stamp collecting, we can all put on our space helmets while collecting stamps, but it doesn't make any sense.

If it ain't fucking broke, don't fix it.
Just high res (hint: Guilty Gear) and no 3D!

qatmix · Post by **qatmix** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:45 pm

If it ain't fucking broke, don't fix it.
Just high res (hint: Guilty Gear) and no 3D![/quote]

Time hunter is high res

Anyhows, new hardware is not really needed for more complex game mechanics, the logic involved in shooters (most games infact) takes very little processor time.

Also we could chuck more than enough sprites around the screen nowadays, obviously you could use more polys on the objects but other than that its not the hardware thats the limitation. Which in my opinion is a good thing. Its just down to the mind of the designers.

Personally I think there is a lot of scope for added gameplay mechanics, Time Hunter will have a few twists.

Another area I think could do with exploration is the range of play that doing a shooter in 3d could give to the player.. Think more layer section than Starfox..

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:58 pm

I would like to see them develop into a broader variety. There's no reason why manics couldn't co-exist with more old-schoolish approaches, and while I like manics as much as the next guy, I don't think they are the only worthwhile brand of shooters. By concentrating on that branch alone, the shmupping world restricts itself for no apparent reason.

Trizeal, Mushihime Sama Original and Shikigami no Shiro 2 are pointing into a less-manic direction. Here's hope other developers will pick up the idea and try to further explore the path.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:55 pm

I fully agree with Herr Schatten. I love most manics, but I don't want all shooters to be clones of Cave's most beloved shooters. More generally in electronic gaming I am afraid of the stagnation that comes when developers try to stick to what is safe. I like lots of smaller development teams trying new things. Too bad this doesn't look to be the future of gaming for the next gen. Maybe Nintendo's Revolution can surprise us and become the PS2 of the future. Or maybe the PS3 will surprise me and not follow the XBox model of focusing on a few big-budget releases with little of interest in between. I remain cautiously optimistic.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:04 pm

I think Nintendo are hoping that the Revolution is going to be the niche developer's machine of choice, hence its (alleged) similarities to the Gamecube on the programming side. Should make for some DC style almost-underground releases, but then again, many of those stemmed straight from Naomi development, so who knows?

Anyhow, I don't think the leap in technology is going to make much difference in the shooter genre. Whether that's a good thing or not is going to be a personal opinion. Myself, I'd like to see a game using the extra horsepower to provide hi-res, hand drawn, meticulously animated visuals, but in reality, who's going to make the effort? More detail=more time=more money which HAS to=more sales. Not happening, is it?

Tychom · Post by **Tychom** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:16 pm

I'd like to see some attempt/experimentation with game AI (choosing what enemies to send at you based on your play) and enemy AI (trying to box you in, make mistakes, draw you out of position) along with some form of generative bullet patterns.

Basically all in an attempt to take memorization by rote down a peg and bring free-form play more to the fore.

I'd also like to see a larger number of long games a la Gradius V or Zanac Neo. The former in particular showed that a console shmup could be long yet remain challenging and reasonably varied/inventive.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:23 pm

When was the last time a shmup came out with multiple weapons a la radiant of thunder force?

Yeah high res, 3D backgrounds really anything like gradius V, Ikaruga or Border down those games are perfect.

Whats left to do should be the real question. absorbing bullets, changing colour and shape, weapons, bombs fly bys whats left?

A shmup rpg with a plot?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:23 pm

How about a shmup that allows the user to edit their own custom levels, and then share with friends via memory card.

.

LAshujin · Post by **LAshujin** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:24 pm

Diabollokus wrote:When was the last time a shmup came out with multiple weapons a la radiant of thunder force?

Ibara?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:50 pm

How about two-player co-op via XBox live?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:02 pm

Competition online a la Petite Princesse is a nice development for shmupdom...too bad it's only in Japan, at least for now. In any event, more online score rankings might be nice to see too.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:13 pm

I think that as long as developers are going to use 3d, it should be used in interesting (yet playable) ways. Tumiki Fighters is a good example of this - it would be quite hard, if not impossible, to do that type of game in 2d.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:00 pm

I liked the way Gaiares and Elemental Master had an adventurous and epic feeling instead of arcade style. Especially the latter is very unique IMO.
I'd like to see more of that, classic shooting mixed with other classic styles and genres in neat ways.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:46 pm

Most people would say 3D...to hell with that. Just make better looking 2D games.

The exception is "XYANIDE" this looks like a step in the right direction...or is it?

We have to wait and see.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:55 pm

I'd like more diagonally scrolling shooters.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:22 pm

An exploratory shmup. Like a world you could explore on the surface (8-way scrolling/movement) with cave entry points to vertical/horizontal sections. Shops to discover. Resources to recover to research new weapons and ships. Huge bosses with certain unavoidable attacks that require special equipment/ships to pass (to require certain stages to be completed).

Well ... that's what I've been wanting to develop for the past 10 years at least. Just haven't gotten around to it.

The mechanics around it are too much for me to handle.

chtimi-CLA · Post by **chtimi-CLA** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:43 pm

i'm still waiting for,a shmup with better explosions than raiden 2, or more overpowered weapons than batsugun.
more generally i don't care too much about innovation if it means bastardisation of gameplay (fuck rpg shmups), i want the same thing but bigger and with sprites if possible. otherwise i agree with herr scatten too, too many schools of classic shooters have gone extinct be it in gameplay or graphics.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:30 pm

I want Compile back!

Really, I think the next step in the "evolution" of the genre should be something along the lines of random stuff (ala Zanac) thrown with manic gameplay and advanced scoring mechanics.

And I think Zanac Neo was a first step into this direction.

And I also agree with Herr Schatten, we NEED MORE STUFF other than Cave manic shmups alike. The old-school gameplay still have a lot to offer.

ResOGlas · Post by **ResOGlas** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 pm

Honestly, as stated above, Guity Gear esque High Res 2D is all I want in the future. If Cave went High Res 2D I would be the happiest boy in the world.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:47 pm

I would like to see more interesting transitions of gameplay. Lets have half of a stage where your in top down mode then you come up to a ship. At this ship you have a chioce to make wiether you go in or stay out and fight above. If you go in the camra angle switches to a behind the ship mode "star fox" for that time being etc etc.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:01 am

How about simplicity for the future? I want more 1-button, no bomb verts with traditional scoring and annoying, overpowered enemies.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:18 am

landshark wrote:An exploratory shmup. Like a world you could explore on the surface (8-way scrolling/movement) with cave entry points to vertical/horizontal sections. Shops to discover. Resources to recover to research new weapons and ships. Huge bosses with certain unavoidable attacks that require special equipment/ships to pass (to require certain stages to be completed).

Well ... that's what I've been wanting to develop for the past 10 years at least. Just haven't gotten around to it. The mechanics around it are too much for me to handle.

I love 8-way shooters like Robotron, Total Carnage, and Smash TV. The later two pretty muh do everything you just asked for above.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:38 am

I'd like to see more exploration of the possibilities of 2D shooting that don't rely on forced scrolling.

While forced scrolling is a big reason shmups work the way they do, restricting ourselves to these bounds also restricts the gameplay to certain limitations. I think games like Bangai-O illustrate that you can still have a focused, score-oriented game that doesn't have to rely on scrolling. I think possibilities in that direction are somewhat overlooked- just look at how few run 'n gun games there actually are.

DirtyMonk · Post by **DirtyMonk** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:42 am

While not exactly a shooter, I'd like to see more games like this:

http://sc2.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php

Back to the topic, another shooter along the lines of Axelay would be most welcome...minus the flickering and the 3-D levels. Maybe even shooters where you bought your weapons like Area 88/UN Squadron. Haven't seen enough of those lately.

With all of these games getting more innovative with the scoring systems, it makes me wonder if they'll start running out of ideas someday.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:41 am

I would like to see more thought put into the design and background of the worlds the shooters take place in. More imagination put into it. With worlds that are at the same time extraordinary, awe inspiring, but not ridiculous. More effort put into the story would be nice.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:56 am

Hey landshark pretty much you want is in a game called armada, except its not got any scrolling sections. Personally I hate the thing its soo boring.

Ibara has multiple interchangable weapons at the press of the button? Mame 4 years time here I come!

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:05 pm

Diabollokus wrote:Ibara has multiple interchangable weapons at the press of the button? Mame 4 years time here I come!

Actually, Ibara has multiple weapons, but they aren't interchangable at the press of a button.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:30 pm

Diabollokus wrote:Hey landshark pretty much you want is in a game called armada, except its not got any scrolling sections. Personally I hate the thing its soo boring.

Ibara has multiple interchangable weapons at the press of the button? Mame 4 years time here I come!

I haven't heard of that. But I need the scrolling sections