The PC/Steam/Playism is the next platform for STGs

[Bonus!]

Due to the release of Crimzon Clover for Steam, I signed up for that service and had a look around. Frankly, I was quite amazed how great the selection of STGs on there was. Just this year alone, Steam got:

- Astebreed
- RefleX
- Crimzon Clover
- Ikaruga

Then there is the eXceed trilogy, the Gundemonium trilogy, Danmaku Unlimited, Satazius, Jamestown. I know, I know, you don't "own" the games, but only a license. Recently, I was pondering whether I should get Bullet Soul Infinite Burst for the X360, but then it hit me that for the same amount of money I could get about 2/3 of the STGs on Steam.

I never bought anything digitally on console because those platforms have a limited shelf life. I'd be interested in getting Raiden IV: Overkill for PS3, but the PS3 only has a few years left.

There was some debate on this forum whether Xbone or PS4 would be the next big platform for STGs. The PS4 is getting a few STGs, and on the Xbone side there are rumors of a Cave release (I wouldn't be surprised if they released the 'Final' Final Shooting Collection on there), but to me it seems that the PC is where this genre is heading.

[MathU]

If DRM bullshit like Ikaruga and Crimzon Clover have is the future of shooters on PC then I don't want any part of it.

[Bonus!]

Well, that's a minor hassle. I got Astebreed off Playism DRM-free though. Also, I'd much rather have DRM'ed games on Steam than on PSN or Xbox Live (and much rather on PSN than Xbox Live, to make the preference ordering clear).

[Despatche]

of course it looks like the pc is where the genre is heading when for a brief period there was no other platform. nearly everyone wants to bandwagon against the wii, and nearly everyone wanted to kill the ps3/360 when the ps4 and one got announced. never mind that the only reason the 360 was even "chosen" for the genre was due to ms legit buying companies into it.

the pc is always where the genre is to begin with due to the ridiculously large number of doujin shmups there are and will be, likely for decades to come. astebreed, reflex, and crimzon clover? all considered doujin soft, all sold as doujin soft, now and forever, regardless of cc for nesica, never mind that nesica is dangerously close to being steam for arcades.

[DocHauser]

If people's problem with DRM is that you don't technically own the game and Valve could lock you out of your account, denying you access to your games, then that is of course a legitimate criticism. But still, am I willing to pay $6.99 to rent the game on Steam? Hell yeah. I mean, I spent more than $6.99 playing Crimzon Clover in various arcades last year, so this seems like a small price to pay in comparison.

[Cagar]

If people's problem with DRM is that you don't technically own the game and Valve could lock you out of your account, denying you access to your games

I like how I haven't heard/seen a single case of this happening, not even one where it's justified (piratism, hacking etc.). And this is during the course of what.. 10 years of steam's existence.
This has been said many times before, but there's probably a higher chance of your house catching on fire and losing your games that way.

[DocHauser]

I like how I haven't heard/seen a single case of this happening, not even one where it's justified (piratism, hacking etc.). And this is during the course of what.. 10 years of steam's existence.
This has been said many times before, but there's probably a higher chance of your house catching on fire and losing your games that way.

I'm pretty sure it does happen. Let's see...

Found a couple. Not sure how legit these reports are, but people do complain about being locked out of their accounts:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/ ... xplanation

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/ ... eam+banned

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... ?t=1079086

[Bonus!]

Those instances seem to be extremely rare that you might doubt their legitimacy. Compare this to Xbox Live where users get banned for swearing, or for uploading footage of GTA V before the official release date:

http://o.canada.com/technology/gaming/g ... ed-footage

Yes, M$ went the extra mile of looking up gamertags of players who uploaded game footage to then ban them from XBox Live.

[BulletMagnet]

I do recall a guy who had a Steam account taking issue with one of the more recent updates to the user agreement (I think they jumped on the admittedly execrable "no class action suits if we screw up royally, only approved-by-us arbitration" bandwagon recently), and lost access to the games he'd bought because he didn't want to agree to the latest addition to the rules. It is a bit of a sticky wicket, because while Valve does have the right to change its terms of service, it does seem like an unfair advantage when you can basically pull the rug out from under paying customers at will and give them no options aside from 1) Agree to our new terms, ALL of them, no matter how much they differ from the ones you first signed up for, or 2) Surrender any access to the products (sorry, services) you already paid for.

That being said, I doubt Valve is in any hurry to screw over massive amounts of customers in a way that would invoke the aforementioned provision, though the fact that they bothered to put it in there at all isn't exactly encouraging in and of itself.

[Doctor Butler]

I do recall a guy who had a Steam account taking issue with one of the more recent updates to the user agreement (I think they jumped on the admittedly execrable "no class action suits if we screw up royally, only approved-by-us arbitration" bandwagon recently), and lost access to the games he'd bought because he didn't want to agree to the latest addition to the rules. It is a bit of a sticky wicket, because while Valve does have the right to change its terms of service, it does seem like an unfair advantage when you can basically pull the rug out from under paying customers at will and give them no options aside from 1) Agree to our new terms, ALL of them, no matter how much they differ from the ones you first signed up for, or 2) Surrender any access to the products (sorry, services) you already paid for.

That being said, I doubt Valve is in any hurry to screw over massive amounts of customers in a way that would invoke the aforementioned provision, though the fact that they bothered to put it in there at all isn't exactly encouraging in and of itself.

This.

[shmuppyLove]

Successful troll

[brentsg]

I do recall a guy who had a Steam account taking issue with one of the more recent updates to the user agreement (I think they jumped on the admittedly execrable "no class action suits if we screw up royally, only approved-by-us arbitration" bandwagon recently), and lost access to the games he'd bought because he didn't want to agree to the latest addition to the rules. It is a bit of a sticky wicket, because while Valve does have the right to change its terms of service, it does seem like an unfair advantage when you can basically pull the rug out from under paying customers at will and give them no options aside from 1) Agree to our new terms, ALL of them, no matter how much they differ from the ones you first signed up for, or 2) Surrender any access to the products (sorry, services) you already paid for.

That being said, I doubt Valve is in any hurry to screw over massive amounts of customers in a way that would invoke the aforementioned provision, though the fact that they bothered to put it in there at all isn't exactly encouraging in and of itself.

Have there been any good legal tests of these user agreements? I mean why shouldn't car manufacturers simply have users sign away their rights before they turn the ignition? It seems to me that none of these will stand legal tests.

My family used to own a boat dealership and we had issues with people leaving stuff in their boats when they brought them in for service. They'd leave expensive skis and stuff like that. Inevitably, someone would come along and pilfer these things in the middle of the night. We tried fences, security cameras, you name it.. thieves would work around these things. We had signs everywhere that we weren't responsible. We had customers sign agreements that we weren't responsible for these items if stolen. Regardless, when taken to court over people's losses the judges sided with the little guy and basically said we could have them sign whatever we wanted, but we were still liable.

[Cagar]

Let's see...

Ooh nice, thanks! This is honestly the first time I see these (i admit that i did really lazy searching)
but let's see..

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/ ... xplanation
The guy did break the rules, he even admits it, and valve confirms it.
"Our records indicate that you are using this account to purposely bypass regional content restrictions or regional pricing."


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/ ... eam+banned
"I have 2 ideas - one is I helped some friends get cheaper games from my region (Russia)..."
This guy did exactly the same.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... ?t=1079086
"I'm an ICQ user, and you know there is a lot spam in there with messages woth email hacks, spam and ♥♥♥♥♥ enlargements =))
One day i've received a spam with message that all games from steam for 5 bucks and there was a link to a steam gift. I know, that's not the safe way they get that gifts, but i took it, since it was free..."
This one is interesting, though this quote pretty much tells the story

[DocHauser]

Well, you did say 'haven't seen a single case of this happening, not even one where it's justified', so I thought I'd post those anyway, even if they were doing something that was against the rules.

Still, it seems the best advice if you don't want to get on Valve's bad side is: whatever you do, don't buy games (or accept gifts) from the Russian store and try and use then in another region.

[d3vak]

"Our records indicate that you are using this account to purposely bypass regional content restrictions or regional pricing."

Crap, I didn't even know Steam had "regional content restrictions"... Someday maybe they'll start selling Cave games but just for the J region? :C

[Zorator]

What DRM is in Crimzon Clover?

[Observer]

What DRM is in Crimzon Clover?

Steamworks DRM. You cannot launch the game without Steam running since it uses online leaderboards and achievements. (Offline mode should work though.)

[Bonus!]

"Our records indicate that you are using this account to purposely bypass regional content restrictions or regional pricing."

Crap, I didn't even know Steam had "regional content restrictions"... Someday maybe they'll start selling Cave games but just for the J region? :C

No, this is based on pricing. Steam has different prices according to region. For instance, games are cheaper in the Russian Steam marketplace than in the US one. I'm not sure whether there are games that are only available in selected regions -- maybe some WWII shooters that are banned in Germany?

[Bonus!]

the pc is always where the genre is to begin with due to the ridiculously large number of doujin shmups there are and will be, likely for decades to come. astebreed, reflex, and crimzon clover? all considered doujin soft, all sold as doujin soft, now and forever, regardless of cc for nesica, never mind that nesica is dangerously close to being steam for arcades.

That's an interesting point. I'd say that 'doujin' can mean a lot of things. There is a world of difference between the production values of Astebreed and Patriot Dark, for instance. Also, the commercial developers are, with the exception of Cave, very small teams. How big are Triangle Service or Qute? MOSS can't have that many employees either, but they have enough cash to get a known artist for Caladrius.

[trap15]

PCs are not for games.

[Kaiser]

PCs are not for games.

Just like MAME is not for pirating emulated games, who the hell are you kidding?

[Despatche]

those two things have nothing to do with each other. mame is not for pirating arcade games anyway, especially not for the past few years aside from everyone bitching about cave; kawaks, nebula, and final burn alpha are, however.

pcs, as they are made today, as they have been for a while, are not for games. even in the "user-friendly" linux distros everyone loves so much, there are a lot of gymnastics and standards involved just to get a game to run, let alone run well. if you've ever seen trap's posts on pc-based arcade hardware, you'd understand. i'm sure he's posted something similar about the ps4 and xbone as well.

[Wyrmnus]

PCs are not for games.

Just like MAME is not for pirating emulated games, who the hell are you kidding?

\

Trap being a Negative Nancy as always. And I thought I was too negative.

[soprano1]

PCs are not for games.

Just like MAME is not for pirating emulated games, who the hell are you kidding?

\

Trap being a Negative Nancy as always. And I thought I was too negative.

This thread is too negative.

[IseeThings]

I'd say 'modern operating systems aren't for games'

too much variable sh*t going on in the background, too many layers of abstraction, too many OS software revisions, too much overhead

unfortunately that has crept into the consoles too especially the current generation.

the magic of consoles used to be that they 'just worked' and everybody got an identical experience and you could plug them in 20 years later and they'd work just the same as the day you unplugged them.

with all the online BS, DLC, messenger services, background video recording etc. etc. none of that is true anymore.

in that sense Steam / PC gaming is no worse of a platform than anything else right now, it's just that it's all a bit crap, but that's what the majority want.

[Despatche]

That's an interesting point. I'd say that 'doujin' can mean a lot of things. There is a world of difference between the production values of Astebreed and Patriot Dark, for instance. Also, the commercial developers are, with the exception of Cave, very small teams. How big are Triangle Service or Qute? MOSS can't have that many employees either, but they have enough cash to get a known artist for Caladrius.

oh, i completely missed this, sorry!

well, the big thing about "doujin" is that it's sold at comiket. here, steam is meant to be used as something similar to comiket, nesica is meant to be used as something similar to steam, these console download services (aside from the rereleases of old games parts) are meant to be used in the same way, and all of it is not so far removed from the simple series.

in a different universe, i'd think triangle service's games would have been published through the simple series. however, i put stuff like eschatos and moss's games on a higher level (which has nothing to do with the game itself); they could be full retail products no matter what, i'd figure. however, judgement silversword, dicing knight., and so on are definitely "doujin" level, as their cartridge releases were essentially prizes for winning a doujin soft competition.

[mortified_penguin]

Seeing some of the complaints on this forum about PC issues, maybe buy one less PCB and upgrade that toaster you're trying to play on.

The Steam region issue is Russia getting games cheaper to combat piracy which, apparently, is a byproduct of them having piss poor translations and little effort to localize a lot of titles. Steam is trying to step in and give them a reason to want to pay for games. So yeah, if you try to circumvent the system and get cheap Russian codes, you're going to get your shit slapped.

I can understand the DRM concerns and all but Steam really is a simple and clean way to go about it. You want to talk about crappy DRM look at all the hoops you jump through for Uplay or GFWL or the abomination that is the Gamefly App. On any given day half of my purchased titles are not even listed as owned, and of the few that are, maybe half those are actually available to play.

[trap15]

Seeing some of the complaints on this forum about PC issues, maybe buy one less PCB and upgrade that toaster you're trying to play on.

I've actually got a powerhouse PC. That has nothing to do with my issues and complaints.

[ebarrett]

We get it, your complaints (and your girlfri- I mean boyfr- I mean thingfriend Despatche) are more of a "hey look at how much of a hardcore purist fuck I am" variety.

[Zorator]

What DRM is in Crimzon Clover?

Steamworks DRM. You cannot launch the game without Steam running since it uses online leaderboards and achievements. (Offline mode should work though.)

I guess that's good to know but it doesn't effect me since I launch all my Steam games through Steam anyway.