Affordable Shmups on the Saturn?

[Jono]

Hello everyone,

I'm a bit new here so I apologise for what will seem like an often asked question. I occaisionally search for video games and this forum always seems to pop up amongst the results and I've finally decided to register.

My question to you is just as the title suggests; i'm looking for cheap/affordable Saturn games. I'm always hearing about the expensive stuff like Radiant Silvergun, Hyper Duel, Batsugun, and Battle Garegga (of which i've just played, fantastic!), however these games are way out of my price range. Current prices for even DoDonpachi are currently out of reach for me.

My current spending maximum on a single game is $60 for a disc game (as i'm also collecting for Neo Geo AES which is easier for me to justify) as that's the same cost as an average new game today.

I only own Layer Section. I intend to pick up DoDonpachi but I want to work my way up in the price ladder so i'm thinking about picking up Gunbird but i've yet to play it to see if it's actually worth getting. Is there any more I should look out for that are under this price point?

I know shmups are more of a PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16 thing but man a Duo-R is pretty pricey , though I do intend to pick one up, maybe next year! For now, I just want to increase my library of games for the systems I already own.

Anyways,

Thanks for your time!

[Obiwanshinobi]

Guardian Force and Sonic Wings Special. (Not sure about the very current prices.)

[ACSeraph]

Darius II, Darius Gaiden, and Oshaberi Parodius were all in the $20 range when I bought them on Amazon Japan. Darius II demands a somewhat masochistic personality, but Gaiden and Oshaberi should be in everyone's collection imo.

EDIT: Also I hear Saturn DDP is kinda shit, you might not want to throw down a lot of cash on that one.

[ptoing]

I got Dodonpachi, disc is mint, booklet has minimal wear, no obi or what that stuff is called. Make me an offer

[Jono]

EDIT: Also I hear Saturn DDP is kinda shit, you might not want to throw down a lot of cash on that one.

Saturn's DoDonpachi is a poor port. Low res graphics from what I can tell. However, Cave lost the original source code to DoDonpachi so a rerelease is unlikely. So the original arcade hardware and the Saturn port are usually the only way to go.

However I still want it because I love its mechanics and I don't think i'm smart enough yet with a soldering iron to get a SuperGun working haha.

I got Dodonpachi, disc is mint, booklet has minimal wear, no obi or what that stuff is called. Make me an offer

Obi as in the spine card that usually comes with JP games? Right now i'm kinda broke so I can't really offer much. Currently DoDonpachi commands about $60 USD shipped on eBay. I cannot offer that amount yet which is why i'm lingering around the $30~ mark so I don't wanna waste your time, lowballing haha. That is, unless you feel particularly charitable! I know I said $60, but that's my absolute maximum right now!

Anyway, is Assault Suit Leynos 2 considered a side scrolling platformer/shmup? That game looks fun since I love Metal Slug but

[Obiwanshinobi]

However, Cave lost the original source code to DoDonpachi so a rerelease is unlikely. So the original arcade hardware and the Saturn port are usually the only way to go.

PSX port, if not perfect, is at least graphically faithful and playable. Emulation (MAME) seemed very faithful, so "the original arcade hardware" is stretching it a bit.

Wolf Fang by Data East (!!!) is a fun mech (auto-)scroller, but I recall reading Saturn port was (marginally) inferior to the PSX port, which is (minor graphical omissions) inferior to the (about perfectly emulated by now) arcade version. (To be fair, console versions have an extra soundtrack.)

[Jono]

However, Cave lost the original source code to DoDonpachi so a rerelease is unlikely. So the original arcade hardware and the Saturn port are usually the only way to go.

PSX port, if not perfect, is at least graphically faithful and playable. Emulation (MAME) seemed very faithful, so "the original arcade hardware" is stretching it a bit.

Wolf Fang by Data East (!!!) is a fun mech (auto-)scroller, but I recall reading Saturn port was (marginally) inferior to the PSX port, which is (minor graphical omissions) inferior to the (about perfectly emulated by now) arcade version. (To be fair, console versions have an extra soundtrack.)

MAME is always an option of course but I didn't make any mention of it because I didn't want to incite any elitism/piracy discussion. I wasn't aware of the PSX version. I'll look into it. Thanks!

Edit: Whoa, $100+ for a PSX DoDonpachi... yeah, not my price point!

[EmperorIng]

The cheapest shmups are (and by cheap I mean usually $30ish or less), to my knowledge (not counting Layer Section which you already have):

Darius Gaiden (get this one)
Layer Section II (avoid; get RayStorm instead)
Gradius Deluxe Pack
one of the Parodius packs
In the Hunt
Sonic Wings Special
Gunbird (I think it's totally outclassed by its Dreamcast sequel, but still fun)
Strikers 1945
Kingdom Grandprix (might be in the $40ish range)

You can pick up a copy of Soukyogurentai for $50, easy; it's one of the best shooters on the system. If you can only get two I'd say make it be Darius Gaiden and Souky.

Most of the shmups on the Saturn can be had for $50 or less. My two favorite are the ones released in the US, Darius Gaiden and Galactic Attack/LayerSection. Sonic Wings Special has some nice variety, and Kingdom Grandprix has a neat racing premise behind it.

Keep in mind that it's probably better to get the imports of Psikyo games on the PS2 (such as the JPN Strikers set, Gunbird set, Segoku Blade, etc.), but the saturn ports are usually cheap and are a nice package all-around.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Last time I checked, Strikers 1945 (the first one, mind you) and Gunbird were more playable on Saturn than MAME (not as laggy). Same with Sengoku Ace on PS2 (better than MAME, and I don't find the upscaling and filtering disastrous in this one). The PS2 Strikers pack, however, is infamous for a couple of reasons I think someone's gonna give here.
The consensus appears to be: the first Strikers 1945 is better off played on Saturn, whereas Strikers 1945 II (Japanese) - on the PSX (I'm afraid the port may lag a tad on the PS2, but don't quote me on that).
One thing about Sonic Wings Special - despite being originally a console game, it can and should be played in tate (unlike Sonic Wings/Aero Fighters 2&3 on Neo Geo). Another thing - I recommend playing on Hard (the prologue stage bossfight is merrier whilst played this way). I couldn't recommend the game enough, just be warned: PAL PSX version should be avoided.

[amdiggywhut]

For what its worth, I find myself the expensive stuff (Batsugun and Battle Garegga, though I plan to pick up Hyper Duel soon) way more than anything else on the Saturn. Souky is a great game as well, much deeper gameplay than most with loads of style as well.

I don't really find the Psikyo games that much fun, although there are a few cheap Saturn options in that regard.

[Blackbird]

I'll second the suggestion for Darius Gaiden. I got mine for 15 bucks I think and it's a great game.

[eatfrog]

but it doesn't save hiscores.. :'-(

[chempop]

Nice choice with Layer Section being your first pick.

I suggest:

Strikers 1945 or Gunbird (≈$25) or Sonic Wings Special (≈$30)
Gradius (I+II) or Parodius (≈$25)
Soukyugurentai (if you are using japanese console black manual works fine, if you are using PAR4IN1 get white cover ver, ≈$30-40)
Darius Gaiden (≈$20)

Current prices for even DoDonpachi are currently out of reach for me....
My current spending maximum on a single game is $60 for a disc game....i'm also collecting for Neo Geo AES which is easier for me to justify

DDP should be in the $50-60 range, so if it's in your budget go for it. As for AES, I know there are affordable games, but the market is pretty nuts with crazy collectors will to spend upwards of $30,000 for alleged bootlegs. Personally I'd go for MVS, but even those prices have climbed drastically lately. Have fun with your saturn!

[Jono]

Nice choice with Layer Section being your first pick.

I suggest:

Strikers 1945 or Gunbird (≈$25) or Sonic Wings Special (≈$30)
Gradius (I+II) or Parodius (≈$25)
Soukyugurentai (if you are using japanese console black manual works fine, if you are using PAR4IN1 get white cover ver, ≈$30-40)
Darius Gaiden (≈$20)

DDP should be in the $50-60 range, so if it's in your budget go for it. As for AES, I know there are affordable games, but the market is pretty nuts with crazy collectors will to spend upwards of $30,000 for alleged bootlegs. Personally I'd go for MVS, but even those prices have climbed drastically lately. Have fun with your saturn!

Thanks,

I'm a bit iffy for Darius Gaiden, the fish motif is funny to me, i'm definitely going to get it though haha!

As for the AES, I know that the CMVS is the better route but the AES is so sexy to look at it, along with it being much cheaper (initially) to get in to. I'm well aware of the $30k boot sold at an airport. I'm actually writing a script for a YouTube video i'm working on, covering the history of NEO GEO, to share my love of it with the internet.

I'm teaching myself electronics so that I may one day be able to make my own super gun and be able to consolize my own MVS as opposed to buying a pre-made one.

Thats the goal, at least.

I have a U.S. Black Saturn with 4-in-1 AR (Grey/White). I really want a White JP Sega Saturn, it's a very attractive looking console! But I own two U.S. Saturns, so it's hard to justify spending the dosh for more redundancy. I'd rather just pour it into games or AES cartridges Though I probably will pocket it and save it for either a PC-Engine Duo-R, or a Sony PVM. Ugh, decisions!

I'm much more fascinated by the hardware than the software that plays on them. I'm just trying to actually get a decent library for one of the consoles I own haha.

[ptoing]

Yeah, $30 is a bit low. Also shipping would be €14.90. I'd do the game for $40. So if you want it for that, plus shipping, but don't have the money atm, let me know. I will just reserve it for you, until you got the money.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Get yourself an RGB CRT monitor and a compatible RGB lead (I had my share of fun and games trying to figure out how to trick a US Saturn into outputting RGB via PAL cable, or was it tricking the PAL TV into detecting RGB?), for it makes a striking difference for the better.

[HydrogLox]

Soukyugurentai (if you are using japanese console black manual works fine, if you are using PAR4IN1 get white cover ver, ≈$30-40)

I have a U.S. Black Saturn with 4-in-1 AR (Grey/White).

Don't miss the above. With non-japanese hardware you need to get the more expensive Soukyugurentai Otokuyo (which also includes a Battle Garrega Demo) rather than just the regular Soukyugurentai. The hardware's non-japanese region lets some leftover half-baked localization code run wild on the regular version (the AR cartridge bypasses the lock but doesn't change the region code).

[EmperorIng]

I play the regular Soukyogurentai on my US Saturn, and only two real knocks against it are:

-no more practice mode for each individual stage
-watching the intro sequence each time you start a new run

Neither of which are deal breakers (though the loss of practice mode can be a bit painful). I like the goofy remnants of the localization myself.

If you find Otoyuko at the same price, I guess you can go for it, but if ebay scalpers lurk this forum and jack up the price of the revision, vanilla Souky is still a great game.

[Jeneki]

Layer Section is super fun, so on the bright side that one should last a while.

However, Cave lost the original source code to DoDonpachi so a rerelease is unlikely. So the original arcade hardware and the Saturn port are usually the only way to go.

Is there anything wrong in the emulation on the 360 port (on Instant Brain)? I know it's a barebones release with no useful screen or button configs, but I haven't heard anything bad about the actual game emulation yet.

[Zorator]

I was gonna recommend you just get a modchip but I just checked and apparently the price has doubled since I got mine. Still much better than paying aftermarket prices for all the great imports the Saturn has to offer IMO.

[Jono]

I just got paid, so i'm going to re-read this thread and figure out what I wanna pick up

Also, I dig this place, compared to Neo-Geo forums, this place is ultra friendly haha.

Layer Section is super fun, so on the bright side that one should last a while.

Is there anything wrong in the emulation on the 360 port (on Instant Brain)? I know it's a barebones release with no useful screen or button configs, but I haven't heard anything bad about the actual game emulation yet.

While I've been a huge user of emulation since the year 2000 on a weak AMD K-6 as a means to play and test games, now that i'm older and have some form expendable income, i'd prefer to have the real thing.

In the example of Metal Slug, all of the "emulation" versions of the game are subpar and off. I'm specifically talking about the PS2 and Wii remakes. Emulation takes a lot of power for high accuracy which I strive for. In my opinion, the Saturn version of Metal Slug is the most faithful. The PSX was just a bad attempt. The rest of anything else released by SNK/P is just using an old licensed version of MAME that they use for all of their collections series for the PS2/Wii. You can usually tell because when the game is chosen, just like MAME it boots up the Neo Geo BIOS/intro screen, usually sounding off-key. Sure Metal Slug still sells for a quite a lot of money and I dont necessarily have $1,000 USD to spend on a single game, or a few hundred bucks to buy an CMVS (yet!) but I just can't get myself to play these. If I play the Fatal Fury Battle Archives and plug in a PS2 joystick, I wonder: I getting the full speed, 1:1? Is that slowdown there in the original Neo Geo? I don't know. Are my inputs registering? Maybe i'm just bad!

So to answer you question: No, there's nothing wrong with an emulation of a game. At least inherently. In fact it's justified in DoDonpachi's case since they don't have the code. It's the only way to get it out on new platforms, but won't have new features like you mention. My issue stems more from not owning a "physical" copy of a game. Yeah, i'm one of those type of people. This is more of a personal choice but I made a decision to move away non-physical games. I'm sure you already know the arguments for this kinda mentality so i'll spare ya, but yeah there's nothing wrong. So long as the emulation has a decent balance of emulation speed and graphic/sound accuracy, I don't think it's a problem -- but in my case it's more of a last resort. For some odd reason, i'd rather own an overpriced, flawed port on the Saturn, in a CD of an unknown owner history and origin. I'd like to flip through the booklet trying to justify to myself the cost of spending the high amount of cash versus just playing it on MAME which I may or may not already have.

Haha. I just like feeling like i've paid $ to own something, as opposed for a digital agreement for software licensure that is up in the air for how long its available for on the content providers, and the hard drive its stored on. Even though i'm fully aware of the equivalency of a scratched or broken disc :oops

As for Layer Section, I can't get past the 4th Stage, the Boss usually destroys my last ship/continue. Haven't learned the patterns yet!

Don't miss the above. With non-japanese hardware you need to get the more expensive Soukyugurentai Otokuyo (which also includes a Battle Garrega Demo) rather than just the regular Soukyugurentai. The hardware's non-japanese region lets some leftover half-baked localization code run wild on the regular version (the AR cartridge bypasses the lock but doesn't change the region code).

Oh gosh, that seems like some very important advice before I go scouring on eBay haha. Thanks!

[Tarma]

I think I'm pretty much repeating what has already been said, but good shmups on the Saturn for budget money -

Sonic Wings Collection
Strikers 1945
Afterburner 2
Gunbird
In The Hunt
Layer Section

Those will certainly keep you entertained for a while!

[Skykid]

I was gonna recommend you just get a modchip but I just checked and apparently the price has doubled since I got mine. Still much better than paying aftermarket prices for all the great imports the Saturn has to offer IMO.

Won't CD-R's ruin the console's laser?

[Stevas]

To anyone who might know:
how does the PS2 version of Darius Gaiden (on the Taito Legends compliation) stack up?
(In comparision to the saturn version, primarily.)
I was thinking of getting a Darius off of ebay - just realised I actually have that PS2 compilation already!

[HydrogLox]

How does the PS2 version of Darius Gaiden (on the Taito Legends compliation) stack up?

Many judge the PS2 "Taito Memories Joukan/Taito Legends 2" version to be superior to the PS1 version which suffers some slowdown. That being said there have been complaints about:

• Some input lag.
• Blurriness due to upscaling/filtering.
• Strictly 480i (and no 480p) for an original 240p game.

Darius Gaiden Saturn or Playstation?
Darius Gaiden: Saturn vs. PS1

So in the end the Sega Saturn version still seems to come out on top.

Back on topic:
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Shienryu yet. Affordable or not you should become familiar with BulletMagnet's Sega Saturn’s Explosive Shmups Library.

[Stevas]

@HydrogLox
Many thanks... not sure whether to bite, now! See if I can find that Taito Legends tonight and try it out...

Also, is Saturn Layer Section 2 just shit?
(Layer Section 1 is gunforce/rayforce, right? And Layer Section 2 = Raystorm?)

[ptoing]

(Layer Section 1 is gunforce/rayforce, right? And Layer Section 2 = Raystorm?)

Yes and yes.

[EmperorIng]

Yes, Layer Section 2 is RayStorm.

If you have Taito Legends 2, I'd say you wouldn't need to rush out and pick up Darius Gaiden or Layer Section 2 for the saturn.

I think the PSX port of RayStorm is the best port (because of the extras), but you have an arcade-perfect port of RayStorm already, so it's not like you are at a disadvantage.

The saturn LS2 just looks worse than the PSX counterpart, and runs slower as well. There isn't a huge incentive to pick it up (especially if you have it already), and only then I'd spend $25 tops.

[HydrogLox]

See if I can find that Taito Legends tonight and try it out...

Might as well try out RayStorm as well to see if you even like it - the Taito Memories Gekan/Taito Legends 2 (PS2) version is limited to arcade mode - the dedicated console versions also have an extra mode.

Also, is Saturn Layer Section 2 just shit?

RayStorm introduced a perspective view which graphically turned out better on the PS1 - so it's considered superior to the Saturn version even thought the Saturn version features additional craft and score attack.

Simple 1500 Series Vol. 75: The Double Shooting (RayStorm + RayCrisis)

Also RayStorm got the HD treatment:
PSN Japan
Xbox Live NA
Raystorm HD - Xbox Live Arcade & PSN

(Layer Section 1 is gunforce/rayforce, right? And Layer Section 2 = Raystorm?)

The three "Rays":

• RayForce / Layer Section / Galactic Attack / Gunlock
• RayStorm / Layer Section II
• RayCrisis

[Stevas]

Shit, you're right, that legends pack has Raystorm also!
Welp, that's my night sorted. Forgot I even had that disc.