Touhou discussion thread

[chum]

There we go, this shouldn't get locked, unless Touhou itself isn't allowed.

In PoFV, Aya's boss attack sometimes releases like a 1/4 second long eternal meek-shaped explosion. Is there a pattern to this, or am I supposed to just get good at reading?

Pretty sure It's random, so just have to try to read ahead.

'm enjoying FW's B-2 route on Easy mode. The WR appears to be surprisingly sub-optimal, I probably wouldn't be able to take it on even if I wanted to, though.

[Squire Grooktook]

Started playing Double Dealer today. I really like the stage 2 and 3 bosses.

[chum]

I think the stage 2 boss is a complete bore, regardless of what your objective is.

If you're just trying to survive, you can breeze through her on any difficulty without bombing or dying, easily.

If you're scoring It's bomb spamming and suiciding without even a trace of technicality.

[HenAi]

I think the stage 2 boss is a complete bore, regardless of what your objective is.

Which is a shame considering the great music it goes with.

Are the smaller bullets on the stage 3 midboss spellcard aimed somehow? Haven't been able to figure out a path for it that consistently works.

[Spark]

Since we're talking about DDC, is using a physical mirror on Seija spellcard considered cheating? I timed them out once doing that just for lulz. ^w^

[CStarFlare]

Yeah, I don't like the sound of that.

I wish you could still increase spellcard value by grazing. That hasn't been the case since what, Imperishable Night?

[Spark]

Yeah, since the new engine (MoF+) it doesn't increase, which is disappointing. IN would be more awesome if it didn't have bonus cap similarly to PCB. Imagine how far Xu Fu, HMD and Hourai Doll bonus would get. It wouldn't be too hard to work around the overflow seen in PCB TAS I think.

[CStarFlare]

Do you have the link to the PCB TAS? Curious to see that.

[Skykid]

I wouldn't lock this one, but move to Off-Topic.

A discussion about Touhou won't ever be a discussion about the shooting games.

And this is why I'd lock it.

[chum]

You're not helping and It's not really different from those countless CAVE threads, in fact, several posts so far have been about the games, anyway, discussions like this is exactly what tends to get threads locked so let's not do that.

Here's the PCB TAS: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=22998

[Spark]

stuff

TSO is that you


Also, if you're interested in an TAS as impressive as that, see this somewhat recent TAS of IN Extra made by kopiapoa that scores 4.34 billion. If it's possible to work around the spellcard bonus cap with Cheat Engine like EoSD score cap, it'll be interesting to see how much that run would score, if the replay doesn't desync.

[Smokey]

Double Dealing Character is amazing. Grade A spellcards. I can't contain myself.
But the one card that stole my heart, the one that gives me shivers and reminds me that life is worth living: 逆転「チェンジエアブレイブ」
What an amazing card. It takes my breath away every time I see it; I'm surprised I haven't died by now.

Now that isn't some super epic photoshopping to make it look more amazing. The card itself flips and turns, and it makes my stomach knot up.
I heard from my great grandma that this is what love feels like. Not just love; love at first sight.
I sincerely hope that all you touhou haters take a look at this beauty. Take in its beautiful pinwheel pattern, its wonderful scent, its amazingly bullshit hitboxes.
I know I won't be able to convert you brainwashed cave nerds, but thank you for taking your time to bask in this card's glory.

[system11]

I guess you could also ban everyone who doesn't play shmups but that would leave this place with about 10% of the userbase left heh.

Actually Skykid is right, some of the above (which will be cleaned very shortle after this post) is just fucking creepy and why people don't want to get involved in playing Touhou games - some of the ways the fans express themselves.

[chum]

Uh, you deleted my post about the stage 3 midboss pattern

well w/e I wasn't 100% sure anyway

[Skykid]

But the one card that stole my heart, the one that gives me shivers and reminds me that life is worth living: 逆転「チェンジエアブレイブ」
What an amazing card. It takes my breath away every time I see it; I'm surprised I haven't died by now.Now that isn't some super epic photoshopping to make it look more amazing. The card itself flips and turns, and it makes my stomach knot up.
I heard from my great grandma that this is what love feels like. Not just love; love at first sight.

Is this serious?

[Smokey]

Yes, it is completely serious.
Seija is the most fun boss I've ever fought, and my enjoyment just increases every time I fight her. The penultimate in some ways makes me sad, knowing I wont be able to fight again until another exciting credit is put in.
The question is: are YOU serious??

[HenAi]

well w/e I wasn't 100% sure anyway

Got to read it before it got deleted, anyway.
Guess I'll just bomb that card then for the time being. Ty.


Skykid: > Joined: 10 Nov 2013 16:41

[Xyga]

Batshit...

...insane.

[Spark]

a 10/10 post

Story of my life. On SA Extra.

[Formless God]

snip

Change Air Blade dev pls go

[yorgje]

IN would be more awesome if it didn't have bonus cap similarly to PCB.

But that would make it so painful to optimize ;_;

[CStarFlare]

You're not helping and It's not really different from those countless CAVE threads, in fact, several posts so far have been about the games, anyway, discussions like this is exactly what tends to get threads locked so let's not do that.

Here's the PCB TAS: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=22998

Thanks, that's pretty awesome. 350 mil spellcard bonus? lmao

IN would be more awesome if it didn't have bonus cap similarly to PCB.

But that would make it so painful to optimize ;_;

Not really. If a card is grazable enough to hit the cap, it's grazable enough to exploit for time orbs so you'll be playing the same way anyway. It would just make those cards even more important for scoring.

[Sakurei]

the spellcard are already super important as it is. Failing one will put a pretty big dent into your score. Let's say you fail a spell on stage 4 - that'S 22m lost. Plus the 2 bombs (or the life) you've lost too. that's 22m + 5 (on easy), or 22m + 10 (for a life). If you play on easy, that's a very difficult margin to make up. On easy mode, spellcard make up around half you score with solo youkai, and roughly a third for everyone else (a bit less for youmu since her scoring potential is so huge). I feel like IN without a spellcard cap would be super cool, but also scarier, even if it was kind of the same game.

I like IN. It's my favorite game to score in.

[Lord Satori]

Yes, it is completely serious.
Seija is the most fun boss I've ever fought, and my enjoyment just increases every time I fight her. The penultimate in some ways makes me sad, knowing I wont be able to fight again until another exciting credit is put in.
The question is: are YOU serious??

That's kinda strange... the way you said it. Although I fell in love with the stage 6 boss theme when the game first came out so I suppose I shouldn't be talking. Seija's cards really annoy me, though.

[Smokey]

Everyone bullying the Smokey

I can't help it if my heart rate increases while fighting Seija, even after having grown accustomed to her cards. It was such a surprise, but the adrenaline rush I got was nice, so I have good memories.

[yorgje]

Everyone bullying the Smokey

I can't help it if my heart rate increases while fighting Seija, even after having grown accustomed to her cards. It was such a surprise, but the adrenaline rush I got was nice, so I have good memories.

It's unfortunate how that adrenaline rush is simultaneously the most pleasurable consequence of shmupping and also a huge detriment to one's abilities ;_;

[Sakurei]

It depends. For some (like me) that adrenaline rush is something beautiful - even if I fail. I like it. If I suceed, it means I have won. Achieved my goal and I'd be happy; but even if I lose that run, it just means I will get to feel that rush at least one more time. And that is beautiful.

That said, DDC scoring is a bore. The scoring has little to no technicality. Press X for PiV on stage 2 midboss and boss - some more on stage 3 and 4 and then you hardly even PoC manually. Most of the time you bomb to get all the items since it allows for a higher bonus. It's disgusting. MarisaB obviously being the worst offender here. I am not sure if "press x for score" is more appropriate for DDC or TD. The fact that you're being flooded with resources doesn't help. I don't know why ZUN's system seem to progressively get worse for the maingames. UFO is already pretty meh due to how important Ichirin is. A good game requires you to do well in all stages for a high score, but just half of them. EoSD also has the issue of stage 1 and 2 being not as important. PCB, IN, MoF and SA - so half only - are the only games where every stage is rather important. Of course you get less graze in stage 1 in PCB or SA, but missing out on those 4000 graze for SA normal would already fuck your score really hard. It carries over through the whole game, making a good stage 1 performance really important. Obviously, the same goes for stage 2 onward. You don't just need to do well in stage 3 and then cash in on stage 5 and 6.
Of course, when I say "do well" I don't mean in a survival sense. That much is a given. But what do you do in, let's say UFO stage 4 aside from collecting UFOs and not dying? Yeah, not all that much. Most of UFO's scoring takes place in stage 3 to rack up the PiV and stage 5 and 6 for cash-ins. I don't like that. In that regard (and only that regard), even TD and DDC are better than UFO. As dull as their systems are, they have their scoring in every stage.

[yorgje]

It depends. For some (like me) that adrenaline rush is something beautiful - even if I fail. I like it. If I suceed, it means I have won. Achieved my goal and I'd be happy; but even if I lose that run, it just means I will get to feel that rush at least one more time. And that is beautiful.

I dunno, in my (far less expansive) experience I've had to do my best to supress the rush in order to maintain a passable level of skill when nearing the end of difficult runs. Whenever I game over to Kaguya, I always console myself with the logic that if I get there and game over enough times, then stage 6 will eventually become unexciting enough for me to succeed.

[Formless God]

how important Ichirin is.
You don't just need to do well in stage 3 and then cash in on stage 5 and 6.
Most of UFO's scoring takes place in stage 3 to rack up the PiV and stage 5 and 6 for cash-ins.

Is this why in the WR run the player milks every non-spell, tries to capture every spell and goes for two big ass cash-ins at the end of stage 4?

but missing out on those 4000 graze for SA normal would already fuck your score really hard.

Unless the two graze systems are fundamentally different, I don't see why this would apply to SA and not UFO.

But what do you do in, let's say <shooting game> <stage> aside from <scoring> and not dying?

Wow, I don't know. Solving a rubik? That's how I got my PCB hiscore.

[Sakurei]

how important Ichirin is.
You don't just need to do well in stage 3 and then cash in on stage 5 and 6.
Most of UFO's scoring takes place in stage 3 to rack up the PiV and stage 5 and 6 for cash-ins.

Is this why in the WR run the player milks every non-spell, tries to capture every spell and goes for two big ass cash-ins at the end of stage 4?

but missing out on those 4000 graze for SA normal would already fuck your score really hard.

Unless the two graze systems are fundamentally different, I don't see why this would apply to SA and not UFO.

But what do you do in, let's say <shooting game> <stage> aside from <scoring> and not dying?

Wow, I don't know. Solving a rubik? That's how I got my PCB hiscore.

The WR is the WR because they go to such lengths. To get a decent score all that is really important is Ichirin and a solid UFO route. She makes up 90% of your graze-PiV. That said, the two big UFOs at the end og stage 4 don't make stage 4 a cash in stage. You get much bigger UFOs in stage 5 and 6 several times.

admittedly, I phrased that kind of shitty. Of course you also raise you PiV in stage 1 through excess tokens, but the major difference is that you do kind of nothing on Nazrin herself, while you get a majority of your graze in SA FROM the bosses. A system where all you have to do is live on the bosses is dull. Now, do not misunderstand. I also know that you graze nazrin's first spellcard, but what about the first nonspell? The second one? Last spellcard? You just kill them. Top. In PCB, you'd graze them as much as you can. And even if it's not "grazable", you'd still milk it for as much cherry+ as you can. In IN, you milk things for timeorbs, careful not to kill the attack too soon. You actively do things.

UFO stage 4 is fun to dodge, but boring in a scoring sense. compare it to PCB stage 4 where you do shit the whole time, graze a lot to rack up for PiV, and suicide/bomb for the cherry control. It's vastly superior to UFO's stage 4. The same can be said about IN's stage 4, particularly for solo humans who have to work around the familiars for the cancels. Your scoring in UFO stage 4 is much more passive than in the really good games.