GunHed better then Super Star Soldier?

[Sinful]

Yeah, recently I've really been into some PCE verts, namely the Star Soldier Trilogy + GunHed/Blazing Lazers series (because I consider it part of the same series, since it has enough similarities to me. ie. both companies where inspired by each other & included ideas from each series). So I wonder what everyone else's opinion of these games are? Me, I'm gonna hold out voting for awhile longer until I put in some more serious playtime into this series to have a better understanding of where I really stand? But in the meantime I feel that Soldier Blade is the best, Final Soldier worst, and GunHed + SSS are still fighting it out for my love (it's been a back and forth thing. First I thought SSS was better, then maybe Gunhed? And now who knows? Maybe they'll even top Soldier Blade? )

[royalfan84]

I've only just started playing Soldier Blade and have not played the other Star Soldier games. I've played a lot of Blazing Lazer(Gunhed) though and it remains one of my favorite shooters on any system. So I would say Gunhead is first in my book so far. Soldier Blade is pretty fun so far.

[Herr Schatten]

All three Soldier games are better than Gunhed, with Soldier Blade coming out on top. As much as I love Compile and their games, Gunhed has serious balancing issues and one or two checkpoints where it's almost impossible to recover.

[Mortificator]

I think each of the PC Engine Caravan shooters has a different developer: Compile was contracted for Gunhed, Kaneko for Super Star Soldier, Now for Final Soldier, and Hudson did Soldier Blade themselves. The later games all follow the template established by Gunhed, though they have their own nuances.

Gunhed's the only one with horizontal wobble, which I don't like in vertizontal games.

Gunhed has traditional bombs, Final Soldier and Soldier Blade let you use your option or power-up stock as bombs, respectively, and Super Star Soldier doesn't have stored bombs at all. I think Soldier Blade's system guts its arcade mode, since you can bomb constantly and spend huge portions of each stage invincible. Spriggan has the same issue, IIRC.

Gunhed has separate hucards you need for the arcade and Caravan modes, while both are built into the same cartridge for the other three.

Gunhed lets you use all your weapons in Caravan mode, while the other three restrict you to just your shot.

Gunhed and Super Star Soldier have that weird system where you'll sometimes respawn instantly and sometimes be sent back to a checkpoint, while you'll always respawn on the spot in Final Soldier and Soldier Blade.

There are 5 different ship speeds you can switch between in Gunhed, 3 in Super Star Soldier and Final Soldier, and 2 in Soldier Blade. Also, your ship changes visually and gives off a damaging exhaust flare when you switch speeds in the later three games, something probably inspired by Image Fight.

All in all, I think Super Star Soldier has the best arcade mode. It feels more intense than the others and does more things right, though I'd like it even better if it ditched the checkpoint system and changed the final stage boss rush. Its homages to the NES Star Soldier are a nice touch too. Best Caravan, I'd give to Soldier Blade or Gunhed.

[Ebbo]

While I do prefer Soldier Blade, I've slowly warmed up to Gunhed over the years. Without the bullet wobble it would probably be much higher on my favourites list. Gunhed certainly demands a certain mindset since the stages can be very lengthy and it takes some time to get really exciting (although the secret difficulty settings help to some extend). But there is something about the graphics and the music that make it hard to stop playing... Usually my runs end at the boss rush stage though

Gunhed and Super Star Soldier have that weird system where you'll sometimes respawn instantly and sometimes be sent back to a checkpoint, while you'll always respawn on the spot in Final Soldier and Soldier Blade.

From Wikipedia page: "Players lose a life if they are hit by an enemy or projectile, with the game continuing at a previously–crossed checkpoint, unless they grab a flashing orb which destroys all on-screen enemies and allows them to continue at the point where their previous ship was destroyed (represented by the icon illustrating the remaining number of ships turning gold). "

[royalfan84]

"Gunhed and Super Star Soldier have that weird system where you'll sometimes respawn instantly and sometimes be sent back to a checkpoint, while you'll always respawn on the spot in Final Soldier and Soldier Blade."


Forgive me if I am wrong but doesn't Gunhead have a vibrantly glowing pink orb you can grab to create a one-time-only respwn spot in the latter stages?

Btw thanks for the comparison-contrast.

[Mortificator]

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I understand how the system works (Gunhed's mechanics are detailed in Zach's excellent treatise). Super Star Soldier is similar, except with a flashing weapon orb instead of a flashing gel.

[Sinful]

Anyone know if Hudson did Soldier Blade alone? Or if they borrowed a person or two from other teams they've collaberated (like Red of Gate of Thunder + much more fame. Similar to how SNK borrowed some Irem guys back in the day). Which for some reason Malc assumes worked on it for the Shmups.com review of Soldier Blade? Any truth to this? I didn't find anything.

Gunhed and Super Star Soldier have that weird system where you'll sometimes respawn instantly and sometimes be sent back to a checkpoint, while you'll always respawn on the spot in Final Soldier and Soldier Blade.

All in all, I think Super Star Soldier has the best arcade mode. It feels more intense than the others and does more things right, though I'd like it even better if it ditched the checkpoint system...

Gee, Mortificator, for seeming to know so much about these games, I'm very shocked that you don't know GunHed & SSS checkpoint system?! K, I'll tell you. Know when you shoot them item changing gels, that they start to then glow? Well, when you collect one of these glowing ones, it'll equal one time that you respawn instantly. Can tell by you life icon turning gold too. Collect many, and many times you'll respawn instantly (for each glowing gel you collect)... I'm pretty sure you can collect more of these then lives you recieve? So yeah, what restart points are you talking about again? "WOW! YOUR WISH LIKE CAME TRUE?! Are you gonna go to Disney World now?"

... Don't tell me you don't know about the extra difficulty codes either!!! Very important. Though like GameFAQs to be so unclear at times, it's kinda unlcear about it for GunHed too. Once you get to the difficulty select screen menu, to add extra harder difficulty modes, just hold select and keep pressing 1+2 buttons together a couple of times up until you unlock the final difficulty level (god something).

So yeah, Mortificator, never quit researching. Especially when it comes to shmups.

[CIT]

Haven't spent much time with the Caravan modes, so what I'm writing only applies to the arcade modes.

Gunhed has nice action and presentation, but sometimes the stages drag on a bit too long. It also has all these weird tricks like getting the 20 extends and the special power up that are kinda cool, but don't really make the game any more interesting.

Soldier Blade has hands down the best graphics and sound, and shows off the system's capabilities like no other HuCard except for Magical Chase. Unfortunately it's way too easy, even on the harder difficulties and has some endless milking patterns that can be abused.

Super Star Soldier has simple but elegant graphics and some challenging bossfights that are really fun. IMO this is the strongest out of the caravan titles.

Final Soldier seems to be the only one everyone can agree on, lol, the consensus being that it's the weakest of the lot.

My ranking:

1. SSS
2. GH
3. SB
4. FS

[RaidenViper]

The stages in Gunhed are too long and boring. I prefer Super Star Soldier more than Gunhed.

But Soldier Blade is better.

[Skykid]

All three Soldier games are better than Gunhed, with Soldier Blade coming out on top. As much as I love Compile and their games, Gunhed has serious balancing issues and one or two checkpoints where it's almost impossible to recover.

Yeah, on the last bloody stage. Crap game structuring for sure.

[Jeneki]

In Gunhed, if you collect flashing orbs you can skip checkpoints even when you die. You just spawn right back where you died.

[Obiwanshinobi]

GunHed should be at least experienced on harder difficulties than default. A romhack where these can be selected without entering a code would be welcome (like the Recca one).

[Sinful]

FUN FACT #1; GunHed/Blazing Lazers is the only one out of these games not to have the "Arcade/Hi-Res" mode. As the entire Soldier Quadrilogy all have it either via cheat (SSS & FS) or in the options menu (FS & Fantasy Star Soldier). And this kinda upsets me for GunHed, cause I'm really liking the much clearer graphics hi-res provides.

FUN FACT #2; thank goodness Star Parodia/Fantasy Star Soldier has an extra harder hidden difficulty level I just found out about (in option menu highlight "0A" music, & now you can select the extra hidden "impossible" difficulty level ), because the default "Hard" difficulty barely made the game any harder. Thus it would of made it the worst in the series by default due to much shorter replay value. That would of been such a waste, as this game in the series offers a ton of extra content due to the extra CD space (ie. 3 characters, lots of levels & level variations, enemies, animation, etc.).

FUN FACT #3; it seem the 2 min games might of been used for preliminary matches in the Japan contests? I only got this idea from reading the PCE game manual for these games, as that's what it labels it as. And it makes sense, no?

FUN FACT #3; Fantasy Star Soldier (along with GunHed as mentioned already) is the only one in the Soldier series to allow other weapons in the 2 & 5 min games.

FUN FACT #4; the fact that all Soldier games have the 2 & 5 min games on the cart is actually a bad thing, considering that hue card space is usually tight for space (4 megs for SSS/FS/SB. And I think 3 megs for GunHed?). As I'd rather have that space be used for an entire new level in the main game mode, especially since all but GunHed seem to use new texture graphics for these quicky modes(GunHed uses/recycles lvl.3 tile set). Star Parodia is on a CD, but I'd still rather have that extra dev time spent on the main game. So the way GunHed did things is best, in my opinion. "I want more SB levels! Act 7 don't count as a level since it's just a supposed boss fight? No fair."

GunHed should be at least experienced on harder difficulties than default. A romhack where these can be selected without entering a code would be welcome (like the Recca one).

Code ain't that hard or annoying to do. Very simple & fast to do in fact, unlike say Namco Dragon Spirit & Saber where you have to reset the system 30 and 57 times to get "Arcade/Hi-Res" Mode! Now these two need a hack ASAP, not GunHed.

[CIT]

Quadrilogy

Let's please use "tetralogy" from now on, OK?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

There's the slick golden colored Gunhed ship icon power-up that'll net you an 8-way auto-fire power option if picked up towards the end of Stage 3 of Gunhed/Blazing Lazers (BL). It's never mentioned in the instruction manual though. Encountered it while playing BL on stage 3 once. The BL play-though in the Video Games & Computer Entertainment mag never mentions this cool 8-way auto-fire option either.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Despatche]

they all suck: gunhed, super star soldier, final soldier, soldier blade. i'd buy them for the caravanival (yep) stages alone, much like i'd buy alzadick.

no, really, star soldier and hector '87 are probably better games. play those, play star force, play soldier force, play mahou, play something that actually tries to be a game (like the caravanival stages) as opposed to this compile-&-friends trash.

Quadrilogy

Let's please use "tetralogy" from now on, OK?

so i googled "quadrilogy" for the first time ever, and that is pretty painful. i will definitely take your advice and recommend the same to all others.

[tinotormed]

As much as I like Compile shmups, the Star Soldier series are more on my favor due to the fact that the Caravan stages kept you going for more. It's the same case for Super Star Soldier, where if you die in certain stages, you're screwed big time unless you rely much on your reflexes or luck. One of those examples is my replay back from 2011.

[FRO]

I have a soft spot for GunHed (aka Blazing Lazers). It was the very first TG-16 shooter I played (via emulation), and later the first one I bought when I finally got my TG console (from a fellow shmups forum member, no less) some 9+ years ago. I love the music (stage 2 is currently my iPhone's default ringtone), enjoy the powerup system, and despite its flaws (the weird way the bullets and screen scroll), it's a fun game. It's also one of the few I've managed to 1CC. I haven't analyzed either enough to say which is technically the better, more well-designed game, though my inclination would be SSS, but GunHed/BL holds a special place in my heart.

[Sinful]

they all suck: gunhed, super star soldier, final soldier, soldier blade. i'd buy them for the caravanival (yep) stages alone, much like i'd buy alzadick.

no, really, star soldier and hector '87 are probably better games. play those, play star force, play soldier force, play mahou, play something that actually tries to be a game (like the caravanival stages) as opposed to this compile-&-friends trash.

Well, the main guy behind Soldier Blade worked on Hector '87. Does this automatically make Soldier Blade more respected in your eyes then?

So I've had this hanging over my head for all this time now. Whats makes Compile and friends less of a game? Me, just started to finally get into Compile thanks to gateway drug GunHed & Soldier series (was impossible to get into them before), so I don't know them enough. No to mention I'm still new to genre. So yes, please, please enlighten me. Fill my head with grade A shmup.com knowledge! ie. "I just learned how to tap dodge!"

[Bydobasher]

I vote for Blazing Lazers, and it's better than Soldier Blade too (I think the best game in the Soldier series is SSS, not SB).

In praise of SSS: it's very polished, pleasing to look at, with great music and it's a stern challenge in the latter parts of the game. I like it much, and there isn't anything wrong with it.

By contrast, Blazing Lazers does have things wrong with it (the funny scrolling and bullet wobbling, some long stages where not much happens). And yet, and yet . . . I still love it. It creates an atmosphere unlike anything else and it's just plain fun.

I had to think about this; they're close together in my estimation but I do give the edge to Blazing Lazers.

(And I really like Final Soldier by the way.)

[professor ganson]

Interesting thread. Gunhed wins for me for sentimental reasons alone. With all of these games, I can't get motivated for more than casual runs for some reason. With Gunhed the length of playthroughs is an obvious problem. I can see how others might like that aspect of the game, though. Meditative.