Best retro gaming post CRT setup, input lag wise?

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:04 pm

Retro gaming, setting aside my CRT, I have a SNES, MegaDrive, PS1, PS2, GameCube, Wii, PS3, Xbox 360. They all can do 60hz RGB or have been modded to do so.

After reading on this forum iv come to this conclusion...

Is the best route a Eizo Foris FS2333 monitor, which has roughly 3ms input lag, with a XRGB-3 connected to it using VGA in the B1 line doubled mode which has basically no input lag too?

Is that the holy grail for now? Input lag wise?

Are there any limitations for the above consoles/setup? I would get the XRGB Mini but it hasn't got a low lag line doubling mode I believe.

Would be nice to get your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:09 pm

Is that the holy grail for now? Input lag wise?

yes, but I wouldn't worry too much about the display's lag. By now there are quite some display in the range between 4 and 7ms (where the Foris scores at 4.6ms). The Eizo is rather expensive and small. Also it uses PWM for backlight dimming. The Asus VN279QLB for example is a great matte 27" display (AMVA), The Dell S2740L a great glossy 27" display (IPS). The difference in lag (2-3) is negliable, if you stick with a XRGB-3.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:19 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, I chose the eizo as 23inch is perfect size for me, for the distance I'm from the screen. Plus it has 2xhdmi, DVI, VGA, so really good connectivity for my consoles too.

I will look into them 2 monitors though, I'm guessing they have VGA?

Why hasn't anyone made a cheap line doubler with low lag for consoles?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:29 pm

Yes, they all got VGA. If 23" are enough for you, consider the Dell U2312. Running out right now, but still available: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2312hm.htm

Why hasn't anyone made a cheap line doubler with low lag for consoles?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45877

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:40 pm

This Dell monitor pops up a lot on here, almost half the price of the Eizo too.

I could be saving a lot of money going the dell and custom made line doubler route, what would I be sacrificing? I guess we won't fully know until that line doubler is complete.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:12 am

I could be saving a lot of money going the dell and custom made line doubler route, what would I be sacrificing? I guess we won't fully know until that line doubler is complete.

right, on the other hand consider a XRGB-2 or 2plus instead. You'd be using the XRGB-3 in B1 mode only anyway (linedoubling) and the 2/2plus are considerably cheaper.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:17 pm

The Dell U2312HM doesn't come with HDMI, would this be a problem for next gen consoles? I'm hoping a DVI to HDMI or DisplayPort to HDMI cable works exactly the same?

hermit crab · Post by **hermit crab** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:27 pm

Yeah it's not a problem, just a case of getting the right cable. Seems like HDMI is being phased out and DisplayPort is replacing it in computers and monitors, maybe that will happen to consoles too.

HydrogLox · Post by **HydrogLox** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:02 pm

brownvim wrote: I'm hoping a DVI to HDMI works exactly the same

HDMI-to-DVI works - however you need to get at the audio as the monitor has no speakers or audio jacks. See http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p885015

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:09 pm

I'm really torn between the Eizo Foris and Dell U2312 now, the only thing putting me off on the Eizo is the PWM backlighting, I read it can cause eye strain. I might have to just buy it and see how it goes.

The Dell is cheaper but it sacrifices speakers and connectivity options and maybe it ghosts/trails more than the Eizo?

I will sleep on it, appreciate the feedback guys.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:13 pm

Don't make it about speakers. Even the integrated ones are total crap compared to any "real" active speakers. LCDs just don't have the volume (in terms of space) to integrate good sounding speakers.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:19 pm

I'm not too bothered about the speakers, my scart switcher pulls out the audio which I can feed into something better.

I got a wireless stereo headset for ps3 which has been confirmed to work on ps4 too.

hermit crab · Post by **hermit crab** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:33 pm

You can always use the optical audio out straight from the console. Or if you need analog the multi-av port for just audio.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:47 pm

I'm currently using a CCFL backlight monitor, the Asus VG236H.

It doesn't give me eyes train, it's really bright though and I end up changing the profile in the evenings/night.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:56 pm

oh please, that's a TN panel

It will be a night and day difference once you get a IPS or MVA panel.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:01 pm

Good difference or bad difference related to eye strain? I know the picture will be a lot better.

HydrogLox · Post by **HydrogLox** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:02 pm

brownvim wrote:The Dell U2312HM doesn't come with HDMI, would this be a problem for next gen consoles?

7th or 8th Gen? "Next Gen" is too relative at times ...

hermit crab wrote:You can always use the optical audio out straight from the console. Or if you need analog the multi-av port for just audio.

Digital optical audio (S/PDIF (TOSLINK)) is a feasible option for PS3 and the PS4 launch model. However the Xbox 360 E dropped both S/PDIF and multi-AV - not sure if analog audio is available on the composite cable that it ships with when the HDMI output is in use. The Xbox One launch model seems to have an S/PDIF output.

hermit crab · Post by **hermit crab** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:04 pm

I was surprised to see an ASUS monitor recommended earlier as I have an ASUS VE247H and I really hate this monitor (totally strains my eyes with any settings, LED-backlit I think). But it seems like they make monitors in varying qualities then...

You should be allowed to use a monitor for a month or two before you buy it.

(Or maybe I should just buy quality monitors instead of cheap crap)

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:09 pm

Yep the convenient thing is that the Eizo Foris has 2xHDMIs and a line out for audio, easy.

Next gen as in PS4 is what I meant, no HDMI shouldn't be a problem but a little hassle audio wise.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:52 am

I have an ASUS VE247H and I really hate this monitor

you're not alone. I can't sit in front a TN panel for more than 10 minutes. Drives me crazy. It like there's something wrong with my eyes...

hermit crab · Post by **hermit crab** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:40 am

Fudoh wrote:
I have an ASUS VE247H and I really hate this monitor
you're not alone. I can't sit in front a TN panel for more than 10 minutes. Drives me crazy. It like there's something wrong with my eyes...

Yes, exactly!

I suppose I need to go IPS too. Looking at the NEC EA232WMi, around the same price as the Eizo Foris FS2333 and Dell U2312HM. The Eizo is probably best for gaming. Especially compared to the NEC which has a huge response time of 14ms (wtf?). I'll mainly be using it for non-gaming purposes though so that isn't really putting me off _so_ much. And, umm, vain or not I find the Eizo really ugly, the Dell "ok", and really appreciate the subtle design of the NEC. Also the stand lets you raise the monitor (YES! Why don't all? Seriously, do they expect us to put the monitor on top of something and not directly on the table or what?). And you can rotate it on the stand (yay tate, although that lag...).

Never buying anything from ASUS again, that's for sure. Enough disappointments with them, often involving actual physical pain. Still have scars from getting my hand caught in EeePC hinges years ago... And seriously, this monitor hurts my eyes much more than any other LCD screen I've used, and aren't most of them TN so it can't be just that. Even if they make some good products as well, never again.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:51 am

The problem with the Asus might be the LED backlight. Everybody touts the longevity of the LED, but it's still got PVM-based dimming and depending on what level of brightness you have it set to, the pulse pattern can reportedly cause for flicker for people than even a CRT (so I've read recently). This is definitely something worth checking into.

I think I'll be hanging onto my CCFL-based Planar a while longer. It never strains my eyes. I have the feeling that my Asus laptop (an old G2S-B2) did cause me a lot of eyestrain but I wouldn't be able to prove that (I don't really care to do a long-term study to prove it can give me headaches).

hermit crab · Post by **hermit crab** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:41 am

Hmm, the NEC EA232WMi is LED-backlit too so that might be a problem.

And actually I just noticed that it's been replaced this May by the EA234WMi-BK: http://www.necdisplay.com/p/desktop-mon ... a234wmi-bk

Similar monitor but it seems to be cheaper and the response time has been cut down to 6ms (better than the Dell). Seems great, only problem is that I can't find any reviews online (literally not a single one). And still LED-lit.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:47 am

I don't think that all LED backlights will be alike - and depending on the brightness setting, the PVM patterns will be different.

There's PVM in CCFL-based LCD monitors too, of course. My advice would be to shop around as best you can, with an eye towards testimonials about that issue (if in-person testing is out of the question, as it probably is).

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:24 am

I think CCFL-PWM based backlights don't give me eye strain. I know for sure some monitors do, and the only reason I'm thinking is due to LED-PWM. I haven't got a bad word to say about the Asus VG236H, just a shame they got rid of the VGA input.

Xan · Post by **Xan** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:53 am

I got the FS2333 a while ago. It's a decent monitor, but don't expect an 8-bit panel (as this is listed basically everywhere). It's plain 6-bit+FRC. I have concluded this myself with gradient tests vs. an old TN monitor and the results were practically identical. Given its high price point I think there may be better alternatives as this one has the usual IPS issues.

It also sucks that they don't seem to make monitors with component anymore...

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:26 am

IPS issues as in the glow? For me it's do the benefits outweigh the cons, a fast screen (priority) and a better quality screen than most gaming monitors is what I'm looking for.

There may be better quality 8 bit screens out there (I'm not really going to be photo editing) but do they match the speed of the FS2333? 4ms lag is great. I'm guessing that's why it's priced higher for an IPS screen too.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm interested in peoples experiences with the monitor. Would you suggest any others?

Xan · Post by **Xan** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:37 pm

I've never compared it to cheaper IPS screens people generally buy (LG mainly), but the IPS glow is certainly noticeable in dark games and it does annoy me at times. But it can be worked out a bit by adjusting your positition... reminds me of TN monitors, lol. But I guess the current state of LCD monitors has been discussed more than enough on here.

The premium price is mainly like that because it's Eizo and you have the assurance that they didn't skimp on some capacitors to keep the monitors' lifetime short. It also has a "Smart Insight" function which is very neat for competitive gaming. Probably irrelevant for you given your use case. And of course the lag is low indeed.

brownvim · Post by **brownvim** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:30 am

After reading a lot of reviews I'm leaning towards buying the Dell S2440L VA Panel. It doesn't use PWM which is a plus and it has audio out for HDMI.

Fudoh you recommended the 27inch one, its IPS and it's too big for me. What you reckon about the 24inch? Oddly it's the only VA out of the S range. 5ms input lag, read the screen is super glossy though.

Ji-L87 · Post by **Ji-L87** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:44 am

About 27" being too big....I'm using a 27" AOC and a 23" Eizo right now with my PC and I don't really feel 27" is too big. Not anymore, anyhow. Also don't forget that you listed lots of 4:3 sources in your initial post

Those surely will benefit from the increased size.

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