iScan VP30 buying advice

[Midnight Milkshake]

Hi!

I'm going to buy a processor, and after reading the XRGB 3, Frameister and iScan pros and cons think that I'll go the latter plus the SLG3000, but need some advice.

My set up will be:

Xbox, Xbox 360 (this one could be connected by hdmi) and Wii 480p through component

PS2, 240p/480i, component

Supergun and older systems, 240p RGB

Maybe some PAL systems.

And the output will be VGA with the SLG 3000

I want a good image quality (with scanlines for 240p stuff), but also need zero lag (or almost), so I discarded the Frameister and the XRGB because the first one has lag (was my first option, but discovered the input lag problem), and the other one looks like it isn't very good with 480i signals.

Everything will be connected to a Pioneer Kuro ("normal" playing, it scales quite well 480p, at least, to my untrained eyes XD) and a Iiyama Pro Lite 2210 HDS (this one, only for frame sensitive games).

So, what do you think, will this set up be ok, or better buy another?

Thanks!

[Fudoh]

If your focus is on 240p content, get a Framemeister instead. For a dedicated video game machine that's the better choice. There's hardly anybody out there who has a real problem with the Mini's processing delay.

To get the VP30/ABT102 down to 6ms you need to enable gamemode1 and and it's not a nice sight, neither for 240p nor for 480i content.

PAL systems won't work through this chain, because your KURO won't accept 50Hz through VGA, so you have to go HDMI, which means no more scanlines.

An alternative for lag sensitive games would be the combination of a XRGB-3 and a DVDO machine like the VP30. This way you're looking at -1 frame of lag compared to the Mini.

[Midnight Milkshake]

Thanks for the info Fudoh!

The problem is that I feel the lag even if it's 1 frame; moving from the Pioneer (2 frames, I think) to the Iiyama (0) when playing fighting games the change is noticeable with 1 frame links ; with shmups or another genres, have no problem. Is possible to solve the Frameister's lag issue with an update? maybe a new "B1 mode" like the XRGB.

[Fudoh]

But isn't your Kuro the main problem here ? What's it's native lag ? Nearly 3 Frames, right ?

[Midnight Milkshake]

Nope, I play fighting games on the Iiyama because of Kuro's input lag. With the camera method, it lags 2; but I've read here one user that measured his USA Elite with the lag tester, and it had 3; the Iiyama is 0.

Explained quickly

Iiyama---->fighting games

Kuro----> everything else

So I want to play the fighting games boards/neo geo (240p) that I have on the Iiyama with no lag and scanlines, and the other games on the Kuro "with quality"

[Fudoh]

Then get a XRGB-3 straight connected for your Iiyama. I don't see you using any PAL soft there.

[Midnight Milkshake]

Think I've explained myself bad, sorry.

I want to play on both with non hd resolutions, with scanlines when needed, and the less lag possible; so, the only option without buying more than one machine is the XRGB 3, but it has problems with 480i deinterlacing, are those problems THAT bad, or do you think that I'll be ok with them? If the games look like now on the Kuro, but with scanlines, think I can live with that XD.

[Fudoh]

You'd be using B1 mode on the XRGB-3 only anway and there you technically don't get 480i deinterlacing. It probably depends on the type of 480i content you want to use. For everything action related, like fighting games, that's perfectly fine, but on stuff like RPGs you might prefer real deinterlacing to gain a higher static resolution.

And remember that this solution doesn't allow you to play any PAL software.

[Midnight Milkshake]

Uhm, I've been thinking about another option, buy a Frameister for the Kuro so I can play the "normal" stuff, and a XRGB 1 or 2, for the iiyama and fighting games, so I can get 240p with scanlines and no lag, it's cheaper than the iScan+XRGB 3 combo, and I'll get everything covered, what do you think?.

[EmperorZelos]

There's hardly anybody out there who has a real problem with the Mini's processing delay.

I thought I did, then I realised I didn't because it was wierd timing in the game xD

[jmoral14]

Hey Fudoh, my understanding is the Iscan VP30, without the ABT-102 card, actually recognizes and displays 240p correctly, as opposed to the Game Modes. However, there's apparently more lag without the card, even for 240p sources? How is that possible if there's no deinterlacing going on for 240p? I'd think it would be faster, no?

[Xyga]

I don't remember well but yes indeed the VP30 without the ABT102 deals with 240p correctly though with much higher lag.

I guess the ABT102 for offering its fast deinterlacing mode, takes over the handling of some signals and 240p gets treated as 480i in the process.

[Thamiel]

How fast is the VP30 without the deinterlacing card with 480p and up sources? I was under the impression it was 6ms? Might need to update my firmware, I'm on 1.03.

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[Xyga]

I don't remember if I even tried that, but it should still be 6ms in locked mode, like all the other iScan VPs yes. I have removed the ABT102 only a couple of times over the years and just briefly to check a thing or two.

The final firmware is a must though yes, I think the VP30 with older firmware has poorer stability and performance in areas. Again pretty much like all the VPs.

[Fudoh]

240p is always treated as "requiring deinterlacing", it's just that the old SiI503/4 has a special processing mode for low-res progressive sources. It's the same processing pipeline as 480i though, hence you get the same lag.

The VP30 without ABT102 has superfast upscaling of 480p+ sources. I think only the VP50 (non-pro) had a bug in an earlier FW which caused a hefty delay on such sources.

[Thamiel]

Awesome. Suppose I should update the firmware anyway but I really don't use many of its features beyond overscan. It's mostly there to increase my displays compatibility with the OSSC line X modes.

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[Xyga]

Awesome.

Not so much, that means 240p looks fine but lags like 480i.
With the ABT102 in Game Mode 1 it doesn't look okay anymore, but it'll be fast, lag mostly gone (6ms as well iirc)

And 480p is also 6ms whether you have the ABT102 or not. Sorry to repeat things after you Fudoh but people easily have the wrong idea if they read something like 'special mode', and I've seen enough people buying DVDOs for the wrong reasons.

The bare VP30 still does a nice addon to pure doublers like the old XRGBs or the OSSC indeed, for increasing compatibility, zoom/overscan/ratio control, sound integration over HDMI, and well...kinda gently soften the picture when you set the sharpness to -1, which can be nice over the maybe too sharp multiple modes of the OSSC when 1:1.

Also I like that it remains relatively cool and silent (the 50 Pro is of course better but power hungry and hot, may require a cooling fan in summer)
Still couldn't find any reason to sell the VP30 even though I don't use the ABT102 much often anymore and also have a 50 Pro.

[Thamiel]

Yeah I don't use it for 240p or 480i at all, it's just there for extra controls and compatibility. On the rare occasion I play a ps2 game I usually run it through my Optoma HD3000, don't really run into 480i too much in my regular gaming rotation.

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