Newb looking for a little direction

[Capaneus]

So, I have been a fan of arcade games and restoration of classic games, but just recently I've really been getting into bullet hell shmups. For someone who has missed decades of shmups, I'm a little overwhelmed at all the games I have access to. I have a Dreamcast and a 360, so I've been able a lot of games. In fact I'm just as obsessed with the collecting as the playing of the games.

My questions is, once the dust settles, and I have all these shmups to play, what can I do to maximize my enjoyment of them? 1cc seems impossible to me right now, and I usually die a ton and play infinite continue modes if they are there. I love playing the games, but I'm still pretty bad at them. Should I set arbitrary objectives to keep myself motivated? I want to eventually be able to say I have 1cc'd at least one game, what's the first shmup I should aim to 1cc?

Thanks!

[Mortificator]

Batsugun Special and Espgaluda are my usual starting recommendations. You could play them on a PC using MAME and your 360 controller.

[professor ganson]

Eventually you'll want to get away from continues and just try to improve your 1-credit score. Finding a place on the high-score charts here can be a nice goal, but the main thing is to find some games where you find yourself steadily improving. That can really draw you in. As long as you're credit-feeding, it's hard to gauge improvement.

I recommend Shikigami no Shiro 2 for the 1cc goal. I haven't gotten that one myself, but it's a game where you'll see huge improvements with regular practice.

[nasty_wolverine]

Blue Wish Ressurection+

Easy 1cc, and also will teach you the ropes.

[trap15]

As long as you're credit-feeding, it's hard to gauge improvement.

Gotta disagree. If you're averse to using save-states, constant credit-feed sessions are the quickest way to improve at the entire game as a whole. The key is not to think "oh game over it's time for another credit whatever", but to think "oh, I died. why did I die? what can I do to prevent this from happening again?". Credit-feeding will allow you to see the entire game every time you play, allowing you to learn the entire game at once rather than getting really really good at the first ~3 stages and then getting destroyed past that.

[KAI]

Should I set arbitrary objectives to keep myself motivated?

Simple goals are a good start. Beat them, set new ones, repeat, and you will get a 1CC eventually.

what's the first shmup I should aim to 1cc?

If you have a Dreamcast, you should get Karous. It's easy, It's simple, It's awesome

[Mortificator]

As long as you're credit-feeding, it's hard to gauge improvement.

Gotta disagree. If you're averse to using save-states, constant credit-feed sessions are the quickest way to improve at the entire game as a whole. The key is not to think "oh game over it's time for another credit whatever", but to think "oh, I died. why did I die? what can I do to prevent this from happening again?". Credit-feeding will allow you to see the entire game every time you play, allowing you to learn the entire game at once rather than getting really really good at the first ~3 stages and then getting destroyed past that.

There are at least a few different approaches.

* Use as many credits as it takes to get to the end of the game, trying to reduce that number each playthrough.

* Limit yourself to a set number of credits, like many console ports.

* Alternate between one-credit runs and savestate or stage select practice of the parts that give you trouble.

The first one's my least favorite, honestly, but what feels right depends on the player and the game.

[Capaneus]

Thanks guys!! These are all great recommendations!

I actually did play a bit of Shikigami No Shiro 2 for the DC, I actually just found myself holding down the summon attack the whole time, is there a best practice for transitioning between the summon attack, and regular? I felt like the summon attack was so powerful, I might as well jsut keep it held down.

I really feel like my main problem has been focus. I get a ton of games, and I never stick with just one to get good at it. I think I will start will a short stack, and then find a good not-to-difficult one, and set goals for myself, like how far on one credit, but it is fun to just credit feed to see the whole game, but I guess I spoil it for myself. If I force myself to 1 credit, it's a little more exciting the first time you reach a new area.

Props to a great community too, a lot of other genre-specific forums have some pretty arbitrary disdain for newbs, but I'm loving all of these suggestions!

[Vyxx]

Go for the Ibara 1CC as your first.

>_>

Seriously though just play a handful of them, find one that feels fun and just stick with it. I remember when I first played Daioujou the first few credits, it kicked my ass but for -some- reason I took an instant liking to it, same with Ibara.

And unfortunately the whole "practice, practice, practice" part does make a world of difference. By all means credit feed though, I believe MrMonkeyMan used to while working for his 2-All on Ketsui.

[Spirit X]

Hi Cap. I'm in a similar situation, been playing shmups for a good while but never took the trouble to single out a game and get the 1cc until recently.

When I started playing properly, I came here asking for advice and ended up practicing Death Smiles on 360. It did indeed turn out to be a good recommendation for me because in DS you can make each stage as easy/ challenging as you like and overall I think it's well suited to a novice player.

After some practice I got the 1cc and it really boosted my confidence and enthusiasm for more. Definitely worth consideration.

Best of luck.

[Zorator]

The usefulness of credit feeding as practice all depends on the game. Cave games for example make you fully powered up when you continue which really makes for bad practice unless you continued after being fully powered up in the first place. It gives you a false sense of the game's true difficulty. Savestates can be extremely helpful for practice although some of the L33T players look down on it.

[professor ganson]

By all means use the summon attack as much as you like! The DC special edition with soundtrack is the best, though I love the cat figure which comes with the GameCube version.

[Capaneus]

All right this is great! So I think I'll pick one and really play the crap out of it. My short list from recommendations is
Karous
Deathsmiles
Shikigami no Shiro 2
Espgaluda

What's the easiest out of those?

[Mortificator]

Probably Deathsmiles or Espgaluda. Shiki II can be pretty damn hard (though it's a spectacular game).

[Jonst]

I'd say death smiles and karous.Espgaluda is easy until the final boss.Never really committed to shikigami no shiro 2...

[Kiken]

As far as Karous goes, an Easy or Normal mode all clear isn't very challenging (although, scoring well does take some effort on Easy). A Hard mode all clear though (with the TLB) does take some practice.

But I second those saying to start with DeathSmiles. The per-stage selectable difficulty allows for significant catering to one's ability and allows players to steadily grow as their skills increase.

[7711]

I've never used continues on STGs exept when trying specific stuff, so I guess to me the most important thing for any new player would be to play seriously as much as possible, nothing good will come out of playing with continues only (well, thats what I think at least) and I believe it could also lead to bad habits and poor survival understanding.

The game I would recommand is Dodonpachi, already explained why a few times so I won't talk about it for too much, but its definitlely the best game to learn all the basics of danmaku and you just need a pc to experience it.

edit. for 360 I would be tempted to say Ketsui but surely its not the easiest game to start with...

[chempop]

Thanks guys!! These are all great recommendations!

No, they really aren't: http://youtu.be/rsJJGxXDO9M?t=3m40s

[Jonst]

I would also say dodonpachi resurrection is the easiest ddp game in the series due to the bullet cancelling,and it's on 360.

[chempop]

Dreamcast: Gigawing, Gunbird 2

360: Deathsmiles, Mushihimesama Futari

I would start with those and gradually bump the difficulty as you improve. Give yourself specific "rules" like using no more than 5 credits, than 4, 3, etc. Experiment with different methods of playing: aggressively, defensively, with only using small movements, moving often all over the screen.. see what works in what doesn't - remember what works and make adjustments in your play style. Learn to panic bomb when you are about to get hit, then try playing without using them at all, see the difference it makes and figure out what areas are giving you problems.

Do not go too crazy buying piles of games. You will really improve by sticking with a small handful at most. Later on variety will help you improve, but too much too soon is a hinderance.

Once you start kicking ass, stick with Mars Matrix on DC and ESPGaluda 2 on 360. These are both very challenging and offer choices of how to use the mechanics, unlike many other games which need to be played with more strict guidelines.

[Erppo]

As long as you're credit-feeding, it's hard to gauge improvement.

Gotta disagree. If you're averse to using save-states, constant credit-feed sessions are the quickest way to improve at the entire game as a whole. The key is not to think "oh game over it's time for another credit whatever", but to think "oh, I died. why did I die? what can I do to prevent this from happening again?". Credit-feeding will allow you to see the entire game every time you play, allowing you to learn the entire game at once rather than getting really really good at the first ~3 stages and then getting destroyed past that.

Indeed. I don't get the oddly common mentality here of prohibiting continues altogether. I've cleared several games by simply credit-feeding them until I eventually get through without any continues. That way you're free to experiment with different techniques and don't have to keep repeating only the start of a game.

[Vamos]

Savestates can be extremely helpful for practice although some of the L33T players look down on it.

Im not sure any of the actual leet players look down on it actually its more the no where near as good as leet players collector types who moan about it usually.

[Despatche]

sorry i'm late, thought this was the other thread.

i believe many of these suggestions are in error, and i suggest dodonpachi daioujou (black label) as always. it's a game that is perfect for anyone (it should be suggested by everyone and played by everyone) and it only lacks in the area of graphics, it's not too hard (people are liars) and not too easy to start, it's not hilariously complicated or annoying to play well yet has lots of depth, etc.

[nasty_wolverine]

sorry i'm late, thought this was the other thread.

i believe many of these suggestions are in error, and i suggest dodonpachi daioujou (black label) as always. it's a game that is perfect for anyone (it should be suggested by everyone and played by everyone) and it only lacks in the area of graphics, it's not too hard (people are liars) and not too easy to start, it's not hilariously complicated or annoying to play well yet has lots of depth, etc.

Tbh DDP and DOJ were the first danmaku style shmups i played, i got hooked on DOJ (not really good at it, can only make it to stage 4). Its only after that i started exploring other shmups and tried out so many other games. I would go as far as to say a 1-All is not to difficult for DOJBL, but 2-ALL is a different beast.

[Capaneus]

Dumb question, I know what 1cc is, but what is 1-All, 2-All?

[7711]

1-All : First loop clear
2-All : Both loops clear

[Despatche]

Tbh DDP and DOJ were the first danmaku style shmups i played, i got hooked on DOJ (not really good at it, can only make it to stage 4). Its only after that i started exploring other shmups and tried out so many other games. I would go as far as to say a 1-All is not to difficult for DOJBL, but 2-ALL is a different beast.

pretty much! it's only slightly harder than ddp, really; every doj stage correlates to every ddp stage (there's a reason why doj's stage 2 and 3 use similar graphics to ddp's) except ddp's stage 4, which isn't terribly difficult (it's easier than ddp stage 3 i think), and the same goes for loop 2 in both games. seems people really bought into the difficulty myth, and everyone using exy is a pretty big sign of that.

Dumb question, I know what 1cc is, but what is 1-All, 2-All?

yes, "X-ALL" is the term people use for clearing a "loop". if it helps, it's supposed to refer to the game ending after that loop (because you missed a requirement for example).

[7711]

pretty much! it's only slightly harder than ddp, really; every doj stage correlates to every ddp stage (there's a reason why doj's stage 2 and 3 use similar graphics to ddp's) except ddp's stage 4, which isn't terribly difficult (it's easier than ddp stage 3 i think), and the same goes for loop 2 in both games. seems people really bought into the difficulty myth, and everyone using exy is a pretty big sign of that.

Well I have to disagree with that, I can now fairly easily reach the end of DDP's first loops and DOJ still kicks my ass, maybe the game itself isn't has hard as some people would say but its still clearly one (big) step above DDP in that regard.

[Capaneus]

Wow, you guys weren't kiddin about Karous being a starting point, I 1cc'd Easy on the first try, though I'm sure my score was nothing special. I didn't have time to follow it up with trying out Medium, but I'll give it a shot tonight.

[7711]

I may be totally wrong on this but playing on easy sounds pretty bad from my point of view.
There isn't anything to do with elitism (I'm still a begginer myself) but I'm sure it's not needed, and you're better off having to face a more challenging game from the start and work on your technique and STG comprehension as early as possible.
Well I've never played a game that wasn't on default difficulty so its not like I can totally be sure of what I say.