2d shmups Vs. 3d shmups...which do you prefer?

[nsonthi77@hotmail.com]

To be honest with you, I was never into 3d shmups until I played Gradius V and I've learn to accept it for what they are and began to enjoy them a lot more then I did in the past...its like a transition phase you have to go through. No matter what though, I will always have more love for 2d shmups or just 2d games in general.

Its that "feel" good nostalgic experience I get when playing 2d shmups is what keeps my love for them. Good hand-drawn art along with simple but effective gameplay really add to that experience which a lot of 2d shmups provide(Layer Section,Axeley,Viper Phase,Eliminate Down,etc...). Don't get me wrong, some 3d shmups do have beautifull graphics and gameplay like Grad V and Raystorm, but I just don't get the same type of gratification as I do with 2ds for reason I mention above. I enjoy 2d games in general for its simplistic gameplay, little attention to details in the sprites,the layers of parallax and of course its nostalgic values.

[BulletMagnet]

I tend to like hand-drawn stuff better than computer-rendered stuff in general, but when it comes to shmups as long as the gameplay is good the presentation style isn't a big deal for me.

[professor ganson]

I tend to like hand-drawn stuff better than computer-rendered stuff in general, but when it comes to shmups as long as the gameplay is good the presentation style isn't a big deal for me.

Exactly my take as well.

[Ghegs]

when it comes to shmups as long as the gameplay is good the presentation style isn't a big deal for me.

Thirded.

[Ord]

2D for me.

[LAshujin]

2D looks better I find 3d shmups distracting

[zinger]

when it comes to shmups as long as the gameplay is good the presentation style isn't a big deal for me.

Thirded.

Yep, I agree. It all comes down to how it's done. However, there are ofcourse more of the 2D kind, so I'd vote that if I had to.

[CIT]

It might be better to talk in terms of the difference between bitmap and polygonal graphics rather than call them "2D" and "3D", since stuff like Ikaruga and Gradius V is also entirely 2D gameplay. Then there are of course bitmap games like Axelay and Layer Section that create very "3D" looking effects using scaling and rotation.

Anyway, I don't really have a preference. I don't usually look at the type of graphics first to decide whether or not I like a game. What's more important is that the graphics, regardless of whether they are bitmaps or plygons, are well done in general and that they make full use of the chosen medium. I can think of a number of games, both bitmap based and polygonal, that are pretty bland to look at, such as the original Raiden or Night Raid as two respective examples.

[Diabollokus]

I prefer a mixture, I mean the 2D gameplay of ikaruga on 3D backgrounds really worked well same for gradius V and silvergun. earlier atempts like tf5 didn't work so well (imho)

[Elixir]

It depends. 2 1/2-D like Ikaruga, or... 2 1/2-D like Einhander? I haven't seen a 3D shoot 'em up before.

2D gets my vote, simply because it is superior and has more of a legacy over some of the terrible 3D games.

[Kiken]

I personally find that the medium (all sprites, polys+sprites, all polys) is irrelevant. It's how well the medium is used that is important.

[GIANT SQUID]

whatever is needed to convey the artists ideas. i would do all my games as a combination of both though.

[chtimi-CLA]

2D by far, but treasure 3D is ok.

[Dave_K.]

Glad to hear most people don't give a crap as long as its presented correctly. Case and point is ESPRade, all the character and enemy sprites were constructed from 3d polys (and then flattened to 2D sprite animations). The only hand-drawn part of it were the backgrounds.

[visuatrox]

Considering they play the same, as long as the artistic design is good then I don't care. The problem with many 3D games is that the developers put all their resources in the technicalities of the 3D engine, so they forget all about the design.

[Ramus]

I prefer the fun ones. I don't care how they decided to create the visuals.

[chtimi-CLA]

Glad to hear most people don't give a crap as long as its presented correctly. Case and point is ESPRade, all the character and enemy sprites were constructed from 3d polys (and then flattened to 2D sprite animations). The only hand-drawn part of it were the backgrounds.

not only esp rade, look closely at other cave shmups.

[dessgeega]

so is this a thread about graphics or gameplay? i like sprites better than polygons, though there are 3D shooters which use sprites - space harrier - that i absolutely love.

[kemical]

2d... 3d can be good too as long as it is done nicely, but I dont really think I;ve seen a 3d shooter (meaning realtime 3d polys) that has been done in a way I thought looked right or used to the full potential

[dessgeega]

I dont really think I;ve seen a 3d shooter (meaning realtime 3d polys) that has been done in a way I thought looked right or used to the full potential

you need to play rez.

[ROBOTRON]

I prefer 2D, however, I loved Viewpoint.

G5 is a 3D shooter? Coulda fooled me.

[tehkao]

Viewpoint was completely 2D art drawn to look 3D.

I still feel that there should have been some kind of special achievement award given to the artwork in Viewpoint, it just has never been matched in the annals of video gaming.

[landshark]

Doesn't matter as long as the game feels right. Gradius V is a perfect example of this.

Polygons can be done right; there are just few who can do it.

[Zweihander]

one major problem i've had with 3-D shmups is that sometimes you can't tell what's in the background and what's in the foreground. i've gotten killed by such an incident in the following games:

G-Darius
Thunder Force V
RayStorm
Trizeal

however, with the exception of Trizeal, those games were on the PSX, the late morning/ early afternoon of 3-D console gaming, so that's somewhat excusable. ^^;

[Edge]

At first I want to say that graphics are not very important for shmup. :p

But this thread is about the graphics, so:


I think that graphics in all shmups could be better. (2D/3D)
I mean 2D sprites could look better, than they do them in current games. Look at high res Guilty Gear XX and all the special effects. Why not making shmups with such a resolution and nice special effects.

But a thing I don't like is when they use rendered sprites (ESP Ra.De.). Esspecially huge bosses look too cold and lifeless CG animated. I think this feeling comes from the shading.. it's too metallic it looks very computerised.

Many Polygonal shmups are not so well done, I know. But look at Gradius V it even has this classic Gradius 2D feeling. Maybe we should be more patient and open minded for 3D shmups.

What I would find interesting is if they produced a 3D shmup with some strange experimental effects like cell-shade. I think there is high potential in 3D graphics for 2D gameplay games too. It just has to be used the right way. Also you can make things more athmospheric with some camera views at the beginning of the stage or a the camera zooming at the boss.

I also like Starfox 64 (what isn't accepted as a REAL shmup) and I really enjoyed all the new experiences I had with that 3D graphics and this movie like feeling.



Besides I agree on your point Zweihander, but same thing happened to me in 2D shmups too.

[Damocles]

As long as I can see the bullets/hazards, I really don't care. With that said, polys are much more notorious for misidentification. Then again.....Phalanx, I'm looking at you and your god-awful little red bullets.

[Randorama]

Bitmap 2D, I still think that Rayforce or Sokyugurentai are the best example of so called "2D graphics". I also think that early polygonal titles were somewhat better than many recent stuff, with the prime example of G.Darius and Raystorm (especially the latter).

[neorichieb1971]

As long as stuff is blowing up and the audio rocks I'm in no matter what dimensions the game plays in.

I prefer 2D at the moment just because the variety is better and its more origonal. 3D has brought nothing to shmups as a whole except hires graphics.

[chtimi-CLA]

But a thing I don't like is when they use rendered sprites (ESP Ra.De.). Esspecially huge bosses look too cold and lifeless CG animated. I think this feeling comes from the shading.. it's too metallic it looks very computerised.

I don't find esp rade that bad in that regard, but it's true 3D modelling has been used better in guwange or ketsui. the one that looks the worst is DOJ (still a great game though, in fact it's rapidly climbing my favourite cave shmups ladder).

[Zweihander]

Then again.....Phalanx, I'm looking at you and your god-awful little red bullets.

play the GBA version, the bullets look like shmup bullets now.