Gameboy Advance RGB NTSC

[DasFool]

I recently picked up a Sony PVM-20L5 monitor and I'm trying to figure out the least expensive way to get Gameboy advance games in RGB on it. I am familiar with the retrorgb site and they say the component cable looked the best. What I'm wondering is, wouldn't the PAL RGB SCART output be the best for this? Looking on RetroRGB, for some reason, the PAL 480i RGB looks terrible and fuzzy. Can anyone comment on this?

[ZellSF]

for reference: http://retrorgb.com/gbacompare.html

I haven't tried both component and RGB so I won't comment on which is better (but I will say that RGB is over 50$ cheaper than component). RetroRGB is very vague about their testing methodology, so RGB looking worse could be down to something as simple as a settings mismatch.

[Fudoh]

My guess would be that a Wii along with a GBA emu running in native 240p will look best.

On the Cube you're not only dealing with 480i instead, but also with a clock speed different from the original GBA hardware, which causes slight stutter on smoothly scrolling games.

[ZellSF]

My guess would be that a Wii along with a GBA emu running in native 240p will look best.

On the Cube you're not only dealing with 480i instead, but also with a clock speed different from the original GBA hardware, which causes slight stutter on smoothly scrolling games.

I'll second that that stutter is annoying as hell, but VBA on a Wii doesn't have near perfect compatibility or speed.

[DasFool]

Is it possible to use a PAL Gamecube and a mod chip to force NTSC for 60hz?

[ZellSF]

Is it possible to use a PAL Gamecube and a mod chip to force NTSC for 60hz?

The Gameboy Player, like most Gamecube software, supports 60hz by default.

It doesn't support NTSC, but you're going to be using RGB or component so that's irrelevant.

[DasFool]

So the stutter is just something inherent in the Gameboy player or a result of PAL 50hz?

[ZellSF]

So the stutter is just something inherent in the Gameboy player or a result of PAL 50hz?

It is inherent in the Gameboy Player.

It's because the GBA runs at 59.73hz, which doesn't match 59.94 ("NTSC"). I'm not sure what the Gameboy Player does if you try to run it at 50hz.

[blizzz]

My guess would be that a Wii along with a GBA emu running in native 240p will look best.

Can you go into a bit more detail? I've tried RetroArch 0.9.9 and it doesn't seem possible to letterbox the 240p signal. The result is very ugly (some lines are doubled).

I found this with Google, but no explaination how to achieve it:

FWIW, Retroarch for Wii's VBANext core works great and lets you output in 240x160p, letterboxing the screen to keep the correct aspect ratio. Looks really nice.

[philexile]

On the Cube you're not only dealing with 480i instead, but also with a clock speed different from the original GBA hardware, which causes slight stutter on smoothly scrolling games.

The GBA Player on the cube runs at 480p, which looks pretty good, but the picture is softer than the GBA TV adapter, modded for RGB.

Edit: your probably talking about RGB, scart, right?

[philexile]

So the stutter is just something inherent in the Gameboy player or a result of PAL 50hz?

What games show this stutter the best? I was playing Gradius the other day on my 32" BVM, with the GBA Player at 240p via an Emotia and I never noticed any issues. Maybe I'm just not seeing it – or could it be possible that the GBA player has different versions of software on the boot disc?

[ZellSF]

So the stutter is just something inherent in the Gameboy player or a result of PAL 50hz?

What games show this stutter the best? I was playing Gradius the other day on my 32" BVM, with the GBA Player at 240p via an Emotia and I never noticed any issues. Maybe I'm just not seeing it – or could it be possible that the GBA player has different versions of software on the boot disc?

Any smooth scrolling game really.

You not seeing it is more likely than there's being major changes in the Gameboy Player software between versions. I've seen lots of people be perfectly happy with the Gameboy Player, but since OP just didn't plug in a composite cable and was happy with that, he's already more picky than most people.

It's of course possible that there's version differences, so I'll go first and say that the Japanese version at 60hz definitely has stuttering issues.

Edit: also I don't suppose anyone has a GBA modded for TV out and can say what refresh rate it sends out by itself?

[Fudoh]

Same here, japanese GBA player, obvious in Gradius.

RGB modded GBA systems have the same problem since the crystal in the TV adapter doesn't match the GBA's internal refresh rate. It's about as obvious on a CRT, but causes more problems when running through an deinterlacer...

[DasFool]

So, really, there's no way to get proper RGB from a GBA?

What's the least ugly then?

[Fudoh]

You initially asked for the least expensive way. Asking for the best looking one is a different question.

The best looking one - based on real hardware and not emulation - is certainly using a GBA player, a VGA cable for 480p RGBHV output and an Emotia to get 240p. Since you have a 480p-capable CRT, you can skip the Emotia and go GBA player > VGA > SLG3000 > CRT.

If you don't have or want a VGA cable for the cube you can use a component one and a transcoder.

[Thamiel]

You initially asked for the least expensive way. Asking for the best looking one is a different question.

The best looking one - based on real hardware and not emulation - is certainly using a GBA player, a VGA cable for 480p RGBHV output and an Emotia to get 240p. Since you have a 480p-capable CRT, you can skip the Emotia and go GBA player > VGA > SLG3000 > CRT.

If you don't have or want a VGA cable for the cube you can use a component one and a transcoder.

Could skip the Cube VGA cable and/or transcoder by using the SLG HD right?

[BazookaBen]

Actually he doesn't need a transcoder for the Gamecube because his monitor accepts YPbPr. All professional Sony monitors from the late 90's on do, in my understanding.

My Sony pvm-20m2mdu does (though only at 15hz).

I bet Mario Galaxy looks insane on the OP's monitor. I wonder if it's multisync, or has an internal scaler (adds lag).

[Thamiel]

20L5 is multisync I believe.

[DasFool]

I wish the YPbPr cable didn't cost more than the monitor

[ZellSF]

Personally I would say the best way is emulating the games on a good PC.

All the reasons people usually avoid emulation... They're present on the Gameboy Player anyway: input lag, issues due to unmatched frequencies (stuttering), unauthentic sound and video (GC handles both audio and video output).

Except I get LESS input lag issues and LESS frequency matching issues on my PC than I do on my Gameboy Player, I also get better sound and video output.

Of course there's the problem that depending on what hardware you have, transferring saves varies from easy to impossible. Same problem you would have on a Wii with RetroArch actually (as said, a Wii will give you performance/compatibility problems on some games).

[Fudoh]

what's the GBA emu of your choice ? I had one running on my EeeBox some years ago - was pretty neat already.

[ZellSF]

Eh, I don't really bother. I think handheld games belong on handhelds. VBA-M is still the best, I believe. There's also a more optimized version of it with some different way of doing sync and better shader support in RetroArch.

Not sure why I bothered getting a Gameboy Player, or comparing it with PC emulators at the time. I've never played a GBA game on my TV at all.

[philexile]

You not seeing it is more likely than there's being major changes in the Gameboy Player software between versions.

It would be interesting to find out for sure. If that is the case it would solve a lot of people's issues.

I helped the RetroRGB author with his GBA testing a little bit and I could definitely see sync issues with that RGB modded TV adapter. The output did look sharper, but there were other issues with the picture as well. It looked like JPEG artifacts in some areas that would "clean up" as the game scrolled. It was weird and distracting.

I've seen lots of people be perfectly happy with the Gameboy Player, but since OP just didn't plug in a composite cable and was happy with that, he's already more picky than most people.

Just to clarify, I'm running my Gameboy Player via a modified GC component cable, which is switchable between YUV and VGA. This is output to an Extron 203Rxi switch (to adjust the vertical if needed), then to an Extron Emotia GX (for 240p), and finally output to a Sony BVM-D32E1WU. Thanks, Fudoh

It's of course possible that there's version differences, so I'll go first and say that the Japanese version at 60hz definitely has stuttering issues.

Could you post a video of the stutter by any chance?

All the reasons people usually avoid emulation... They're present on the Gameboy Player anyway: input lag, issues due to unmatched frequencies (stuttering), unauthentic sound and video (GC handles both audio and video output).

I haven't really noticed input lag on my CRT either. Are there games in particular where this is noticeable. (I assume Gradius?) Also, I thought the sound emulation was pretty spot on compared to emulation. The GBA didn't have the best sound to start with, but I never noticed the Gameboy Player doing a bad job outputting (or reproducing) it.

[ZellSF]

Could you post a video of the stutter by any chance?

Sorry, no (60FPS) recording equipment, nor am I at home for another week or two.

I haven't really noticed input lag on my CRT either. Are there games in particular where this is noticeable. (I assume Gradius?)

My usual test games are Gradius and Super Mario World. Trying to do pixel perfect jumps off platforms in Super Mario World should usually tell you if something is off.

Assuming you're sensitive to input lag in the first place, of course.

Just to clarify, I'm running my Gameboy Player via a modified GC component cable, which is switchable between YUV and VGA. This is output to an Extron 203Rxi switch (to adjust the vertical if needed), then to an Extron Emotia GX (for 240p), and finally output to a Sony BVM-D32E1WU. Thanks, Fudoh

If we're going with the (likely incorrect) assumption that there's differences in Gameboy Player software (potentially hardware), maybe your clarification should include where your Gameboy Player disc and hardware is from too?

[philexile]

If we're going with the (likely incorrect) assumption that there's differences in Gameboy Player software (potentially hardware), maybe your clarification should include where your Gameboy Player disc and hardware is from too?

It is a US model – I can get you the specifics (serial number, etc) of my Player later today.

[Ghegs]

I've never felt this input lag either, and I've played quite a few games on my Game Boy Player, ZAS and Batman: ROTJ not too long ago.

Euro GameCube, euro GBP, euro disc, outputting RGB through the official SCART cable to a CRT.

[Fudoh]

I talked to so many GBA player users over the time (most of which certainly used US hardware) and the stutter was obvious on all of them. It's a single hickup about every 2+ seconds where a frame is usually duplicated.

[ZellSF]

I've never felt this input lag either, and I've played quite a few games on my Game Boy Player, ZAS and Batman: ROTJ not too long ago.

Euro GameCube, euro GBP, euro disc, outputting RGB through the official SCART cable to a CRT.

It's not a lot of input lag, but it's most definitely there, I just tested it to make sure my memory wasn't messing with me.

Then I booted my SNES (to verify that the CRT wasn't the issue) and Super Mario World again (good thing the game is on both platforms) and when testing that... I found myself overcompensating for input lag that wasn't there.

Yeah there was enough input lag in the Gameboy Player to make me noticeably overcompensate when immediately playing another version of the game.

It's lag free on a real GBA, before you ask.

It would be interesting (and I'm hopeful someone can test) if that is different between versions (again, I'm doubtful).

[philexile]

It would be interesting (and I'm hopeful someone can test) if that is different between versions (again, I'm doubtful).

Thanks for the info. How do you think this test would be done so that its precise?

[ZellSF]

Well if you want to be precise, getting a camera setup to time the difference between pressing the button and the response on screen is probably the only way.

But you would need someone with two different versions of the Gameboy Player to actually test the difference between them.

Which is probably tricky part, since no one really has any use for two Gameboy Players.