THE EIGHTH GLORIOUS GENERATION OF SHMUP

[Stevas]

So.

We already have the Wii U. Yeah, that looks... um. What's the word? Nintendo. Yeah, that'll do.
It looks very nintendo.
Make of that what you will.

Sony have recently given us a small teaser of what we can sort of expect from them. Sort of. Maybe. Did they? They did, right? I dunno. Whatever they did, the internets seems to have suddenly forgiven them a LOT of bullshit, for some reason.

I often don't really "get" the internets, truth be told.

MS have, it seems, just last night, went out of their way to build a "console" that almost - across the board - ticks every box I have currently marked as "things I don't give an absolute flying shit about" on my checksheet, here. Yep.
Just a final glance over there and... yep. Everything ticked. Bravo, guys. Great effort all around.

Before the recent announcements, I remarked to a friend that whichever way I jumped next gen would very much depend on where the likes of Cave jumped. (I'm not necessarily a massive Cave fanboy, I just used them as an easy reference point for him; the point was, I'd go wherever the shmups went. I'm way past giving even a single holy fuck about FPS or whatever-the-industry-is-currently-using to describe their "interactive movies" nowadays.)

Now I'm thinking: for the love of fucking god, please don't jump towards XBO (Jesus H, really? That's the best name they could come up with?)

How's everyone else feeling about any of this?

[ciox]

Cave might still go for the PS4, far as I know it all hinges on how easy and cheap it is to develop for the platform, of course who knows what devil contract they might have signed with MS already.

[cools]

Buy a cab.

[hail good sir]

start

[THE]

For Japanese arcade shmups the future is Nesica and all.net I guess. They could do custom JAMMA/JVS PCBs but don't seem to be interested much.

Console wise the future is not clear. PS4 will most likely bomb like Wii-U in Japan. I just see no demand in Japan for high-end consoles, their simple games don't need it. What is left is PS3, but is has not enough RAM for Cave's needs, unless they go realtime polygons...

[NTSC-J]

I'm kind of scared of what a next gen cave shooter would even be

Gonna go out on a wild limb here and guess that it would involve chaining.

I don't think you can even put STGs along with other games in terms of generations since they've been largely unchanged for some time now and are mostly independent from whatever the major console companies are doing. I would split them into the following generations:

1st gen - Space Invaders-type Atari junk (70s to mid 80s)
2nd gen - Gradius and Toaplan (mid 80s to early 90s)
3rd gen - birth of danmaku and Cave (early 90s to early 2000s)
4th gen - ESPGaluda/Mushihimesama when Cave changes direction and realizes some people like easy clears and lolis, plus the rise of Touhou

For there to be a 5th gen there would have to actually be new games and I'm not seeing many of them outside of Crimson Clover on Nesica.

[ACSeraph]

Going by your list Crimson Clover feels like a 3rd gen game to me rather than a new gen, not that that's a bad thing. I did read a comment in another thread that suggested the WiiU might be a good place for shmups to move to because the touch screen would allow interesting control options. Just based on my experience with iOS Cave I think that could be a really awesome thing. If a company built their shmup around that level of freedom of movement think of all the awesome new patterns and concepts we could see introduced to the genre that would be impossible on traditional controls.

[Udderdude]

It's going to be mostly PC from here on out as far as I can tell.

You can forget getting NESCIA games anywhere but an arcade in Japan.

[hail good sir]

let's

[ACSeraph]

I'm kind of scared of what a next gen cave shooter would even be

Gonna go out on a wild limb here and guess that it would involve chaining.

I don't think you can even put STGs along with other games in terms of generations since they've been largely unchanged for some time now and are mostly independent from whatever the major console companies are doing. I would split them into the following generations:

1st gen - Space Invaders-type Atari junk (70s to mid 80s)
2nd gen - Gradius and Toaplan (mid 80s to early 90s)
3rd gen - birth of danmaku and Cave (early 90s to early 2000s)
4th gen - ESPGaluda/Mushihimesama when Cave changes direction and realizes some people like easy clears and lolis, plus the rise of Touhou

For there to be a 5th gen there would have to actually be new games and I'm not seeing many of them outside of Crimson Clover on Nesica.

You're sperging over the thread title which was just a dumb joke, the guy was talking about console ports which means anime cutscenes, story, and dumb voice shit.

Personally I thought he was just saving the thread from becoming a fuck-these-new-consoles-cryathon

[Friendly]

PS4 will most likely bomb like Wii-U in Japan.

Why would it? PS3 did reasonably well in Japan, it's close to 10 million now (Wii reached 12 million before sales dropped to 0). PS3 software sales in Japan continue to be good. A few months ago, Sony did away with their content approval system, and unlike Xbone, PS4 (like PS3 and Vita) allow indie developers to self-publish their games. I assume that one deterrent for smaller studios during this generation was how difficult PS3 was to program; it will be easy to code for PS4. The reason why Wii U is bombing (at the moment; I think it can still turn around) is because Nintendo has no software. It won't be like this for PS4.

Now I'm thinking: for the love of fucking god, please don't jump towards XBO (Jesus H, really? That's the best name they could come up with?)

Microsoft did a lot of money-hatting in Japan at the start of this generation. Since this plan didn't work AT ALL from a business perspective, one can only hope they won't do it again.
I for one refuse to pay money for physical copies of games that I basically rent instead of owning them. So if any JP devs release their games exculsively for a console like that, then they will get 0 money from me in the future.

[KAI]

Before a next gen shmup, I would like to see a 2D shmup specifically developed for the current gen instead of HD ports of games from a 10 years old arcade hardware.

[Stevas]

Uh... yeah, guys, don't take my topic title quite so literally (or seriously)!
The "eighth" was a reference to consoles more than shmups.

[hail good sir]

and

[Udderdude]

Can only hope future shmups retain an arcade mode that's as well designed as what we're used to, but really, it's a crapshoot as to if that happens or not ..

[EmperorIng]

What this new generation needs is a game like Gradius V (top-of-the-line graphics, classic-style gameplay).

[AntiFritz]

Like otomedius?

[trap15]

Otomedius isn't classic-style gameplay. It's just shit.

The graphics really aren't very good either...

[Never_Scurred]

Otomedius isn't classic-style gameplay. It's just shit.

The graphics really aren't very good either...

Say it ain't so, say...it...ain't...so!
I impulse-bought Otomedius Excellent.

[Stevas]

We DO need another Gradius V, but that's just because, you know, it was awesome.

In the eyes of the mass market, though, we kinda already have. Sine Mora, Soldner X.

Yeah, they might have been shit too, but they (sorta) match the criteria: basic p'tew p'tew that looks pwetty.

[Skykid]

Otomedius isn't classic-style gameplay. It's just shit.

The graphics really aren't very good either...

Say it ain't so, say...it...ain't...so!
I impulse-bought Otomedius Excellent.

It is very much so.

[Never_Scurred]

Otomedius isn't classic-style gameplay. It's just shit.

The graphics really aren't very good either...

Say it ain't so, say...it...ain't...so!
I impulse-bought Otomedius Excellent.

It is very much so.

Shit.
Oh well....

[Kollision]

don't listen to all the hate, Otomedius isn't on par with previous Konami stuff but it's reasonably fun

[Skykid]

don't listen to all the hate, Otomedius isn't on par with previous Konami stuff but it's reasonably fun

It's passable for about 30 minutes. It's so boring. Just buy Raiden Fighters Aces already and start shooting up speeding armored trains.

[Kollision]

Well, I guess different shooters should cater to different tastes and skill levels....

I've recently seen someone play Otomedius with an incredible glow in his eyes
Why shit on a game because it's easier, because it's filled with anime/loli stuff, because the graphics aren't strict sprite-based 2D or because they're even not state-of-the-art 3D artwork?

just my 2 $$

[DMC]

I'm kind of scared of what a next gen cave shooter would even be

Gonna go out on a wild limb here and guess that it would involve chaining.

Well put. I agree with NTSC-J about the other stuff he wrote as well. Shmups seem so far to be largely independent of the other developments.

And for Cave, my impression is that the last Cave-gen made a twist on the twist (such as Zeshikai being a twist on the old twist Kakusei). If they spin it another round they will likely make the games even less accessible at the start (for both rookies and veterans). Accessibility is a hallmark of the genre but they are really pushing it now with the complex scoring systems.

[Never_Scurred]

Fuck accessibility, just let Cave give us that Ibara port

[MathU]

At the moment the Wii U looks like the best next console for shooters unless Sony does something unexpected like show they've learned their lesson after the PS3, PSP, and Vita.

[jandrogo]

Xbox one only has HDMI output, and PS4 surely will do the same, taking this in consideration I expect the end of 4:3, 640x480, tate games, and all the stuff shmups need....

A simple computer will do the job better... And cheaper

[Cuilan]

With the Wii U doing poorly everywhere, and the uncertainty surrounding the PS4 (will Sony allow retail shmups on their console at launch this time?), and the even greater uncertainty surrounding the XBO (will MS bother to money-hat Japanese devs again?), it's really had to say where the genre will end up console-wise at this point. I think we'll get a better idea after this year's Tokyo Game Show.

But as of right now, the best place for them is looking like the Vita (mainly due to the Vita becoming Japan's new 360 in terms of demographics). Sony just needs to release a Vita model that has video-out and that can be paired up with a wireless controller.

And as for Otomedius, the original arcade Otomedius, it's most certainly not easy, nor is it boring. Certianly not if you play it for score. The scoring system may not be to everyone's liking, but I don't see how one could call it objectively easy or boring. I'd even say that it's better than Konami's previous shooters in a number of ways.

Gorgeous mode is boring and easy, Otomedius Excellent looks boring and easy (haven't played it), but the original isn't.