shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Fri May 29, 2020 3:31 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Would Garegga be better without rank?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 993
Location: THE UK!!!
Hi, just wanted your opinions. Have been playing this game for a while now, and have managed to get to level 6 (base) without really paying attention to ranking system and just playing it like an ordinary shmup. I now however would like to progress/lift my game and have been looking at the strategy guide on this forum. It occured to me that without this guide, i would never have had a cat in hells chance of understanding the rank system/medal scoring no matter how much i played. This means i would probably never get to beat the game due to rank no matter how accomplished i became. this to me seems a bit odd that you should have to play a shmup like this in order to complete it. of course, it would not matter if it was a "background" system that serious players could use to increase their score. i would commend this. but to HAVE to follow the system in order to have a chance of COMPLETING the game puts me off.
What do others think??


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:03 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Hellas/Nippon
I haven't played this.

Having said that, I would GUESS that it would be worse off without the rank system. Taking Ibara, it's spiritual successor, as an example, without the rank system it would just be a normal shooter with too much goddamn debris.

With the convoluted rank system, however, it is a deep shooter that requires a lot of training and strategy to master.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:12 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3041
I need to make a statistical analysis on Garegga-based threads. I think that there is something like a standard cycle (waxing moon?) that can easily predict the appearance of such threads. I wonder, from scientific point of view, what's behind this kind of cyclic threads. Any social scientist here?
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 993
Location: THE UK!!!
I think "convuluted" is the right word.........yes it takes a lot of training and a bit of a hint and push in the right direction. but it is not obvious from the outset that there is a system at work. i still wouldn't have guessed unless i had joined this forum and read about it! i think it should be made more obvious, like having a "rank bar" or something on the screen that would show you your current rank!!!!!!!!!! also, playing the game for points seems to control rank somehow, at least up to end of stage 3. i can usually get to stage 5 on one credit and then get my arse kikked. it is still not obvious to me how to control rank past stage 3.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 7293
Location: England
Randorama wrote:
I need to make a statistical analysis on Garegga-based threads. I think that there is something like a standard cycle (waxing moon?) that can easily predict the appearance of such threads. I wonder, from scientific point of view, what's behind this kind of cyclic threads. Any social scientist here?


You have to remember, Rando, that there are over 1000 registered users, and at least 150 active. The chances are that we'll see another one of these kinds of threads within the next month are pretty high. -_-;;

@DC906270: Use the Search function, and search the Shmups Chat forum for "Garegga" and "rank". Make some coffee and a sandwich, and have a sift through the ten or so pages worth of discussion on this topic.
_________________
Image


Last edited by Icarus on Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:35 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Hellas/Nippon
Your last link doesn't work.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 993
Location: THE UK!!!
I noticed the link didnt work too :lol: by the way, can any of you tell me how to select "variations" of the ships? like golden bat etc. also, how do you know the names of the bosses? is this on the arcade version? i play the saturn version and the bosses dont have names? which boss is "black heart"? is this the ship at the end of level 5 with the drones which bursts out of the large mother ship????


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:46 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3041
Icarus wrote:
You have to remember, Rando, that there are over 1000 registered users, and at least 150 active. The chances are that we'll see another one of these kinds of threads within the next month are pretty high. -_-;;


It's more of a scientific speculation. It is pretty obvious that some arguments are more or less cyclic: why? What's their frequency? I remember that up until...a couple of years ago? RSG or Ikaruga threads were basically cyclic, too. Beside that, out of 150 active members, i'd say that 20 or less have a clue, so... [/acid]
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:49 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Hellas/Nippon
DC906270 wrote:
which boss is "black heart"? is this the ship at the end of level 5 with the drones which bursts out of the large mother ship????


Poor old DC906270 doesn't have a clue!

Someone help him out...
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:51 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 7293
Location: England
DC906270 wrote:
I noticed the link didnt work too :lol:


Worked for me. Meh.

DC906270 wrote:
by the way, can any of you tell me how to select "variations" of the ships? like golden bat etc.


Use either Shot (for regular flavour), Weapon (or bomb in regular lingo, for speeded up flavour), Option (for a smaller hitbox), or all three together (for both small hitbox and speed up, you can also get this by timing out the select screen).

DC906270 wrote:
also, how do you know the names of the bosses? is this on the arcade version? i play the saturn version and the bosses dont have names? which boss is "black heart"? is this the ship at the end of level 5 with the drones which bursts out of the large mother ship????


The Battle Garegga Handbook, Japanese compiled guide using official materials. The Handbook is also available in softcover manual form with the Garegga Insanity DVD.
And yes, Black Heart is the black-winged sonofabitch at the end of stage 5 ;)

Randorama wrote:
It's more of a scientific speculation. It is pretty obvious that some arguments are more or less cyclic: why? What's their frequency? I remember that up until...a couple of years ago? RSG or Ikaruga threads were basically cyclic, too. Beside that, out of 150 active members, i'd say that 20 or less have a clue, so... [/acid]


Well, since we have a lot of new active members, it's more than likely that this kind of thread for Garegga/Ikaruga/RSG etc will reappear, mainly because the newer ones won't have been involved in the discussions in the past, or will use the Search to look for the older threads. As for a scientific hypothesis on why, I really couldn't tell you, as I'd like to know myself ;)
_________________
Image


Last edited by Icarus on Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 993
Location: THE UK!!!
wait a minute icy calm, you havnt played the game, so how can you take the p*ss out of me when you have even less of a clue about the game in question 8)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:58 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Hellas/Nippon
I am not making fun of you. I am making fun of the guy who is making fun of the guys who have no clue.

As if he was born with a clue. Ha!
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 1957
Yes, because then half the threads on this board wouldn't devolve into a discussion about Garegga and how awesome/terrible its rank is.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 7293
Location: England
sethsez wrote:
Yes, because then half the threads on this board wouldn't devolve into a discussion about Garegga and how awesome/terrible its rank is.


Maybe they should all be locked, and archived in a special locked forum called "Flamewars" or "Past Discussions" or something. And when another thread like this pops up, everyone should just point the poster to that particular forum, saving the rest of us the hassle of calming the storm, and explaining why this particular discussion is likely to end up with pies and mud flying around...? ;)

Hah! Like that's ever going to happen.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 718
Location: France
Randorama wrote:
It's more of a scientific speculation. It is pretty obvious that some arguments are more or less cyclic: why? What's their frequency? I remember that up until...a couple of years ago? RSG or Ikaruga threads were basically cyclic, too. Beside that, out of 150 active members, i'd say that 20 or less have a clue, so... [/acid]

if we looked at the "garegga rank thread" spectrum, i suspect the main frequency would be the "first page thread drop frequency"..


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:51 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 474
Location: Oklahoma
asking if it'd be better without rank is like asking if sex would be better with identical twins.

You bet your ass it would be.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:46 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3041
icycalm wrote:
I am not making fun of you. I am making fun of the guy who is making fun of the guys who have no clue.

As if he was born with a clue. Ha!



No, it's just a matter of developing a clue. Which involves learning instead of bitching about game mechanics. Not that you have a clue of, of course. You can always...ah no, you either are born with a clue, or not. Good luck :?
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:15 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 5394
Location: New Zealand
Randorama wrote:
icycalm wrote:
I am not making fun of you. I am making fun of the guy who is making fun of the guys who have no clue.

As if he was born with a clue. Ha!



No, it's just a matter of developing a clue. Which involves learning instead of bitching about game mechanics. Not that you have a clue of, of course. You can always...ah no, you either are born with a clue, or not. Good luck :?


Stop it, kthx.

The ranking system is fine, and personally I think that it's better then some of the atrosities I've seen. Even if the game didn't have the ranking system, that would just be another feature we're all missing out on.
_________________
Image
twitter.com/shmups
discord.gg/shmups


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:27 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1081
Location: Hellas/Nippon
Randorama wrote:
icycalm wrote:
I am not making fun of you. I am making fun of the guy who is making fun of the guys who have no clue.

As if he was born with a clue. Ha!



No, it's just a matter of developing a clue. Which involves learning instead of bitching about game mechanics. Not that you have a clue of, of course. You can always...ah no, you either are born with a clue, or not. Good luck :?


full. of. shit.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 275
Location: Canada
well, a shmup without a rank system would very easily become unbalanced and thus unplayable.

If in doubt, play Super Aleste, it is either impossibly hard if you don't have near max level weaponry or very easy if you do.

Not that SA is bad, there are hard modes that will be really hard even if you have max weapons, but that's beside the point.
_________________
This causes to me a sensation of badness. - Stormwatch


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 3237
Location: Huntsville, AL
No... Battle Garegga would not be as fun without rank.


Hyper Duel would be though... :x
_________________
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:10 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 1468
Location: South Texas USA
Have I ever mentioned that I really don't care much for Battle Garegga?
To me, its just a poor version of Strikers 1945 with really annoying "bombs".
(collecting fractions of bomb pieces off the ground. Give me a "bomb" powerup anyday)

Most games do have a "rank"...so get with it/over it.
All those shmups in which once you die, there is no coming back? These really don't have much of a"rank"...they're just toughplain and simple.
Raiden,GraduisIII,R-Type,Pulstar, etc.
_________________
http://www.vodkatron.com/index.htm


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:32 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5630
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Garegga would be better if every playable character and aircraft didn't have such a big damn hitbox. That, IMO, is the main problem with this game; the hitboxes are just WAAY to big for a bullet-hell game like this.

The rank, IMO, really isn't that bad-try playing Raycrisis! :shock:


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1044
dave4shmups wrote:
Garegga would be better if every playable character and aircraft didn't have such a big damn hitbox. That, IMO, is the main problem with this game; the hitboxes are just WAAY to big for a bullet-hell game like this.

The rank, IMO, really isn't that bad-try playing Raycrisis! :shock:


Battle Garegga? Bullet-hell? This does not mesh well!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 5630
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
ArrogantBastard wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:
Garegga would be better if every playable character and aircraft didn't have such a big damn hitbox. That, IMO, is the main problem with this game; the hitboxes are just WAAY to big for a bullet-hell game like this.

The rank, IMO, really isn't that bad-try playing Raycrisis! :shock:


Battle Garegga? Bullet-hell? This does not mesh well!


OK, perhaps bullet-hell is a bit extreme, but the game certainly has enough bullets flying around at any given time not to be classified as old-school, IMO.

And it certainly has enough bullets in it that the hitboxes are too damn big, IMO.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 12523
Location: Wherever.
Randorama wrote:
I need to make a statistical analysis on Garegga-based threads. I think that there is something like a standard cycle (waxing moon?) that can easily predict the appearance of such threads.

Gemini: As Jupiter shifts hemispheres, a change is in store for you...don't be afraid to experiment and try new things! A new love may enter the picture sometime soon; be sure not to let your innate duality get the better of the situation. Also, expect a new Garegga rank thread. :mrgreen:

Seriously, when new people come by who haven't seen the glorious battles of eras past, this is likely going to be one of the topics that comes up, since it is, after all, one of the (if not THE, period) most hotly-debated topics in all of shmupdom. Similar topics along these lines will do the same; I wouldn't even mind so much, truth be told, if they didn't consistently turn ugly.

As for the actual topic at hand, I've come to be of the opinion that Garegga and its ilk would be better if its rank system were somehow optional; thus, newer or more casual players could get into the game playing in "No Rank" mode, knowing that the difficulty would increase in more "general" increments rather than depending so much on specific player actions, while more advanced ones who like being able to manipulate things and test how well they can do with limited resources could just turn the rank on and have a ball. I'm not the first to come up with the idea, but it sounds good to me, anyways.
_________________
"Fight me IRL if you want to man up so badly."
Glossary / Discussion / The Bizaar / Vasara HS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:42 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 993
Location: THE UK!!!
This is THE way i think it should be - you should be able to get further into the game using skill alone rather than having to abide by the rules of rank


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 12523
Location: Wherever.
I said this back in a previous thread, but those who say that Garegga's rank system means that "skill doesn't matter" when beating the game need another look. Watch a superplay of Garegga sometime: if it's like what I've seen, the player will go through most of the game with minimal weaponry, no full bombs in stock and no extra lives in reserve. In otherwords, he leaves himself almost ZERO room for error; he is confident enough in his basic shooting and dodging abilities (as well as his ability to medal and score well) that he is able to abandon almost everything except the bare minimum for the majority of the trip. This requires a LOT of practice.

If Garegga has a fault in this area it's not that it doesn't require enough raw skill of its players, but rather that it perhaps requires TOO much skill to play optimally, and is thus inaccessible to players unable to spend the enormous amount of time it takes to get to that level of prowess. I have my criticisms of Garegga, granted, but "not requiring skill" is definitely not one of them.
_________________
"Fight me IRL if you want to man up so badly."
Glossary / Discussion / The Bizaar / Vasara HS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:43 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3041
Elixir wrote:

trolling


and

icycalm wrote:

dumb clueless comments


Uhm, you two are not getting anymore food, you're already too fat :lol:

rest of comments wrote:
various already said things about Garegga


Eh, i'll keep saying too: Garegga was unique, then the changes led into the mentioned directions. As my horoscope says:

"Mars in the house of Venus will cause rank systems to be more ductile and less convoluted by the age of Aquarius". Uhm ,when the age of Aquarius was due? :?
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 1158
Location: California
DC906270 wrote:
This is THE way i think it should be - you should be able to get further into the game using skill alone rather than having to abide by the rules of rank


Then go play almost any other shmup. It's not hard.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mojilove and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group