psychology of tate vs yoko shooting

[futurematt5]

For some reason, which I am still trying to figure out, vertical shooter feel more intense than horizontal ones.

I've tried thinking about the top down aspect, or symmetry of tate orientation playing, versus the landscape, open air experience of horizontal games, but I don't think I've quite cracked it.

[ThEmperorIsDead]

I've always slightly prefered tate games, I always chalked this up to it being more comfortable moving the stick side to side to dodge rather than up & down for yoko....but I agree, vertical games just feel faster for some reason.

[Elaphe]

It has to do with the simmetry of your body, which affects your brain, your eyes, etc. and how you see the world and move through it. Some games feel very natural to play because of this., for instance, first person shooters, driving games, breakouts, etc. It doesn't matter if they are 3D or 2D. If the orientation fits your body, then it's better. For intance, a game like Sensible Soccer has this advantage over any other side-view soccer game, just like a vertical shmup will feel more natural than a horizontal shmup.

[trap15]

I believe there was a nice Japanese page that heavily detailed the psychological aspects of STG really well, including the difference between tate and yoko orientations. Really wish I remembered the URL.

[Plasmo]

It has to do with the simmetry of your body, which affects your brain, your eyes, etc. and how you see the world and move through it. Some games feel very natural to play because of this., for instance, first person shooters, driving games, breakouts, etc. It doesn't matter if they are 3D or 2D. If the orientation fits your body, then it's better. For intance, a game like Sensible Soccer has this advantage over any other side-view soccer game, just like a vertical shmup will feel more natural than a horizontal shmup.

It's simple as that, couldn't have said it any better.

/topic

[endoKarb]

Am I the only one who doesn't notice any difference? I am okay with both.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

I am officially balls at horis, which I always put down to a lack of practice although i'm pretty sure the points raised in this thread are correct. They just aren't as intuitive as verticals, I have trouble predicting bullet trajectories in horis. Not so much in verticals.

[EmperorIng]

Are you saying Gradius's mantra of "Destroy them all!" is counter-intuitive?

[KAI]

Are fightans counter-intuitive?

[HydrogLox]

Are fightans counter-intuitive?

Compared to Punch-Out! - Yes.

[Pretas]

Progear and Gradius III Arcade feel just as intense to me as any vertical shooter.

[J-Manic]

I find that dodging bullets and targeting/shooting enemies is a lot easier when they're coming down from up above. I also see bullet patterns better in verts than in horis.

[Roodwurm]

The real reason is so incredibly obvious that everyone overlooks it and I created an account just so to sort this out once and for all...

It's because most Japanese vertical scrolling shooters still follow the blueprint laid out by this game:



And most Japanese horizontal scrolling shooters still follow the blueprint laid out by this game:



The 'vert' keeps all environments restricted to the background. It is therefore the most 'pure' shooting experience and primarily lets the player focus on just shooting and dodging. Notable exceptions: Super Aleste, Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga - for all including stage hazards.

The 'hori' introduces environmental navigations and all sorts of extra hazards. This is the more adventurous shooting game, that takes the player on a journey of sorts and in which for a very large part the stages themselves, not just - or necessarily - the enemy formations and enemy shot patterns leave the most lasting impression (note that I'm leaving bosses out of the comparison here). Notable exceptions: Ironclad, Progear, Akai Katana - which incidentally all share the same unusual tilted perspective that moves the horizon all the way up and fills up the background with landscapes for the most part, sort of like verts rotated by 45 degrees.

In hardcore STG communities you'll find that the majority of players prefer vertical scrolling shooters, with their focus on raw mechanics and greater room for intricate scoring systems (in most cases). You'll also hear horizontal scrolling shooters being accused of filled with 'çheap deaths'. This is not true. They just require more environmental awareness, unless they're not well designed of course.

[Edge]

I think it's mostly a matter of what you are used to.

Vertical shmups feel so intuitive because we are used to playing these type of games in this orientation. For me horis like Gradius or R-Tpye feel as intuitive as the vertical ones. Progear or Akai Katana feel a bit strange, because I am used to play this kind of shmup vertically.

But I highly doubt that there is a given psychological preference for vertical orientation. I think it comes from our brains adapting to the games we have played before. As our brains are always looking for patterns that are familiar, something our brain is very good at. And if anything should be more natural, if you compare it with real life human eyes actually need to pay more attention to horizontal movement then to vertical movement. Because when we walk we can only move horizontally. And btw, FPS and racing games are also more about horizontal movement then verticality.

EDIT:
Oh, wait that means vertical shmups focus on horizontal dodging as opposed to vertical dodging in horizontal shmup.So you need more horizontal eye movement for dodging vertical shmups... ? And humans cope better with horizontal eye movement. That actually makes a little bit more sense. But not sure if that is true... Also by this definition the Tate screen orientation is actually more counter intuitve. Because Tate screen means larger vertical eye movement. Well anyway, I still believe it is mainly depending on what the player is used to.

[jasoncslaughter]

I think it's mostly a matter of what you are used to.

This. I think conditioning has a lot to do with it. To draw a comparison with music, a lot of rhythmic theorists think that humans have a natural preference for duple rhythms, when really it's just that there are more duple rhythms used in current music (Western music, at any rate). If you asked someone from 1500 (or someone from West Africa), they would probably say we prefer triple rhythms because that's what occurs most often in medieval/Renaissance music and West African music.

In terms of the OP, I think verts do seem more intense generally, but this may be due to the fact that most of the more recent shmups are verts, including most of the danmaku variety.

[Hagane]

I don't feel any difference. It's just a matter of taste.

[Elaphe]

To prove what I said about the brain and the orientation, I think this test would be interesting. Try playing a vertical shmup with two arcade sticks in two player mode, one stick controlled with each hand. It's hard, but not impossible. Now, try the same with a horizontal shmup and you'll see what happens. It's the same with that kind of skill test you have to pass to obtain a driving license. You have to be able to guide two figures along two paths using two sticks or two spinners. Of course the orientation of the paths is vertical.

[ED-057]

Somehow I think the big difference is really the direction that your shots are aimed. Imagine a game where the playfield was square, the ship had radial symmetry, no scrolling background, and just a few enemies that would come from a random direction and move about the screen (like Asteroids perhaps). Would that be a vert or a hori? Seems to me that if you shot upward I would classify it as a vert, shooting to the right (or left) would make it a hori. (And being able to shoot in any direction as in Asteroids makes it an arena shmup)

[Marc]

Funny this because I'm just having a real problem with a similar thing. St2 boss in Akai Katana, when it does that blue circular spread with the aimed pink shots in between? Piece of piss. Soon as you finish that phase and the plane moves above you but spits out basically the same pattern? Fucks me every single time. I keep trying to tell me brain to see the second pattern is if it were a vert shooter, as it's nothing that would give me any trouble in Mushihimesama, for instance, but as of yet I blank every time and end up bombing.

[futurematt5]

Try playing a vertical shmup with two arcade sticks in two player mode, one stick controlled with each hand. It's hard, but not impossible. Now, try the same with a horizontal shmup and you'll see what happens.

Great point. It seems that "up" and the left/right symmetry makes it easier to coordinate evasive hand eye movements. My. Original question was why are verts more intense? That is, the feeling of pressure. I guess it may have something to do with the perspective. Yes it's easier to dodge something falling from above as your natural left/right balance gives us greater coordination when predicting the path of that bullet, than something aimed at an angle. Gues most bullets are angled come to think of it. But hori games generally have a feeling of space, guess the test are those 2.5D isometric games like Ironclad and Akai.

[Yield]

Try playing a vertical shmup with two arcade sticks in two player mode, one stick controlled with each hand. It's hard, but not impossible. Now, try the same with a horizontal shmup and you'll see what happens.

Great point. It seems that "up" and the left/right symmetry makes it easier to coordinate evasive hand eye movements. My. Original question was why are verts more intense? That is, the feeling of pressure. I guess it may have something to do with the perspective. Yes it's easier to dodge something falling from above as your natural left/right balance gives us greater coordination when predicting the path of that bullet, than something aimed at an angle. Gues most bullets are angled come to think of it. But hori games generally have a feeling of space, guess the test are those 2.5D isometric games like Ironclad and Akai.

Another possible (simple) explanation may be the fact that screens nowadays are considerably wider than they're tall, giving you a greater field of view in horizontals.

As such in horizontals, the bullets have a longer trajectory and you thereby have a larger room to respond in, whereas in verts the bullets seem to appear more abruptly/suddenly.

[Ed Oscuro]

Another possible (simple) explanation may be the fact that screens nowadays are considerably wider than they're tall, giving you a greater field of view in horizontals.

But nobody makes widescreen horizontals.

Also, Darius.

This thread.

[Yield]

Another possible (simple) explanation may be the fact that screens nowadays are considerably wider than they're tall, giving you a greater field of view in horizontals.

But nobody makes widescreen horizontals.

Also, Darius.

This thread.

It doesn't matter a great deal whether the horizontals are optimized for widescreen; any playable resolution is still wider than it is taller.

Also horizontals tend to make use of the entire screen with the GUI displayed as icons on the top and the bottom while most verticals cut off the sides of the screen (read: The viewing field is by design larger in horizontals).

[MathU]

This thread isn't what I thought it was going to be about but I'd like to point out that 4:3 is the closest simple aspect ratio that corresponds to your real-life field of vision. In this sense horizontal shooters, which mostly use something similar to this ratio, are much more intuitive than vertically-scrolling shooters which typically take the form of some vertical noodle. Vertical shooters like Soukyugurentai and Chaos Field which favor the more standard display format are more intuitive by this same line of reasoning. Now an argument could be made that we are predisposed by our eye muscles towards shifting our eyes vertically or horizontally more than the other, but as far as matching a rectangular screen with our natural field of vision 4:3 is the best aspect ratio.

You could also look at this in terms of only your binocular field of vision (where you can see things with both eyes), which is close to a circle. Then the fitting rectangular aspect ratio would be a 1:1 square. In this regard a 4:3 ratio is again the closest standard format (aside from some computer monitors which use 5:4), but rotating it sideways to 3:4 isn't quite so bad.