Shmup Central

This is the main shmups forum. Chat about shmups in here - keep it on-topic please!
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VideoGameRescue
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Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

Hey dudes. I am new here, but somebody said that if I wanted feedback from you guys, that I should post my videos here. I will just post them in a single thread here. For about a month now, I have been doing reviews on shmups (one video a week). You guys seem like you are the crowd I would love to please, which is why I would love feedback on these. If there is anything you think I should improve upon, I am all ears.

I am really trying to make it a good series and not just another random YouTube thing.

This is my latest one:
Aegis Wing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYCP9EPAlIk

Here are the others that I have done as well:
Strania: The Stella Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auZ0VTXvA2E

Akai Katana:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjmD4qB6Gc4

King of Fighters: Sky Stage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFKkCS4d9Mc

Let me know what you guys think. Each week, when I do another, I will start posting it in here. KoF: Sky Stage was my very first one, so I worked really hard and have been to try and improve since that one. Like I said, I don't want to pump out shmup reviews to be different. I generally love the genre and it seemed like an easy one for me to review since I don't mind playing them even if it is a really bad one

EDIT: The latest ones are the ones I am replying to this thread with
Last edited by VideoGameRescue on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Moniker
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by Moniker »

Good to see some vidya reviews from someone who knows what they're playing. Video quality is quite good as well. Some tips:

The score breakdown into graphics, sound, powerups, dodging, and bosses seems somewhat artificial. (I'd say that about most reviews that employ them.) Certainly mention notably good or bad audio/visual touches, the quality of the soundtrack, etc., but I wouldn't drag it out. Ditto powerups. Powerups are sort of inseparable from the rest of the game progression, so giving them a separate score doesn't feel right. Again, mention how it works, and whether it's done well, but keep moving along.

Instead I would suggest that the meat of the review be on the quality of enemy and bullet patterns, scoring, and progression. By progression, I mean is the game well-paced, does it remain interesting from stage to stage, is there a good difficulty curve, etc. Read some of the written reviews on this site as a starting point. All told, I'd think about dropping categorical scoring altogether.

Finally, you may want to vary your vocabulary a bit more. During one of the reviews, you said the word 'dodging' about five times in thirty seconds. If you don't write your reviews out beforehand, you should consider doing so. If you do, the thesaurus is your friend.

Keep it up! Looking forward to seeing more of these.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

I appreciate the feedback. You can probably tell the difference between KoF: Sky Stage and the other ones since I got a ton of feedback from KoF (it was my 1st one that I ever did).

I am all for changing up categories. Like one that I got rid of was difficulty. I did that just because that entire category is really covered in the other sections.

Yeah, as for the scores, they are artificial based on me playing the games. I mean, I guess no matter which way I slice it, in the end, I could bash a game because I personally did not think it was good while somebody else thinks it is amazing. The way I did them was like this:

1 = absolutely horrible
2 = below average
3 = average
4 = above average
5 = perfect

I do agree that what I might see as perfect could be what somebody else sees as average. Maybe there is a game I have not played (and that is a good possibility) that will show me how average this other stuff truly is. I mean, I am still on XBox 360 and have not even gotten to Neo Geo or Genesis yet (I have a CMVS with some really awesome ones like Last Resort)

One of my goals in doing this is to introduce people to shmups who may not really play shmups, but at the same time, appeal to people who truly enjoy shmups. I know that is not an easy task since I have not really met many people who are in the middle.

Maybe I will get rid of dodging as well since, unless it is a bullet hell, dodging is not that major of an aspect (I mean, it still really matters, but in something like Strania or something where you are not dodging very much, it is not very important).

As you can probably see, one of the big aspects I am focusing on is the power-up system. I try to explain it very well. I mean, I have only done 4 of these and already I have hit pieces with the power-up system where the system is slightly bland, but that is because the game is not about that. I mean, Otomedius Excellent has a crazy and awesome power-up system that is super customisable, but that is because it works well for that game.

What I can try to do is bring the difficulty category back while excluding the dodging and power-ups categories, but include those in difficulty and explain the game pacing. I mean, I will talk about the power-up system, but not make that the meat of the review (which is really is now). The difficulty will now be the meat and include much more since it will include dodging (both dodging enemies and bullets), power-ups, enemy patterns and bullet patterns. Like with Trouble Witches Neo, the one I am working on right now that will be ready in 2 weeks, some of the bullet patterns, while I am sure they are possible to dodge, are crazy difficult unless I use the shield, which counts as a power-up (hence tying together power-ups and dodging).

I can also get rid of rating everything as well. Instead of it being Overall, it will be Conclusion, and I will simply recommend it or not recommend it.

The one I am doing for next week is still in the style I have been doing these. Next week I am doing Aeternum, which is a horizontal bullet hell on XBLG. Only 4 levels long. Really short game, but it is really good. It is going to be in the style I am doing now simply because it is already done and scheduled to go out to YouTube next Wednesday, but just has not hit that date yet.

After that one, since it is already done, I will dump the ratings, combine dodging and power-ups into difficulty and go in to it that way. That way, I can talk about how the game progresses, enemy patterns, bullet patterns (if either exist), if the game does what lots of shmups do and the 1st level or 2 are easy and then it gets crazy hard. I can totally ramp down the power-up section since that seems to be the meat of the reviews right now.

So I would end up having these be the categories: graphics, sound, difficulty, bosses, conclusion (in this section I have been trying to add extra snippets like replayability and stuff instead of just background on the game itself). This way, the score at the end would just be whether or not I personally recommend it and the scoring would feel less artificial. Now, if the soundtrack is noticably bad or the graphics are clearly pretty bad (some games have bad graphics or sound, but I grew up with a Master System, so I know that those 2 do not make a game bad), then I can mention it.

Also, sorry, I type way too much for my own good sometimes. But yeah, I take criticism serious (in a good way, in a very good way). So I will take what you say and what anybody else says to heart since, honestly, I don't want to make bad videos and am working hard to make decent videos that give a good amount of information.

I just do not want to go along doing my own thing if there are ways that I can improve. Even watching these now you can see progression, but I guess I am putting myself out there, so I never feel like what I am doing is good enough, so I am constantly trying to improve.

Also, if anybody else has any criticisms, I am all ears and I do listen and take to heart what people say. Of all communities, this is THE community that I do not want hating my videos (or disliking, maybe hate is too strong of a word), because I just do my own thing instead of working to improve.

Also, I noticed your list of XBLIG shmups and might I recommend you add Aeternum to it? It is pretty awesome. The graphics have a very Scott Pilgrim vs the World style retro thing with them
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by pestro87 »

Glad to see that you're doing shmup reviews! Moniker covered most of the things that I was going to say but I would also like to see you talk a bit about what kind of modes are included with the game/port, for example:

- Does it include an arrange mode, training mode (I use this quite a bit and I know that other people on here do as well :) ) and/or any other modes that are exclusive to the console port?

- Does it have online leaderboards? Can you record replays and upload them to the leaderboards (being able to download and watch replays from the leaderboards is extremely helpful when you're trying to improve at a game that may not have an abundance of videos with high level play floating around on youtube)?

- Does it support Tate?

I would also like to see a bit more focus on what kind of bullet patterns the game has, for example, if it relies more on bullet cancelling or pure dodging. It'd also be great to hear a bit more about how the scoring mechanics work.

Last but not least, keep up the good work! :)
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

Yeah, a bunch of that I can totally put in. During my conclusion, I have been calling it Overall but am going to switch it to conclusion, I like to talk about replayability, so within that, I will try to cover more stuff about, basically, "what keeps the player coming back".

Like, for example, I just got done shooting my footage for Trouble Witches Neo, and that is a tough game for me. I mean, we all have our games. I know that some people said it was easy, but I am having trouble with it. Through watching replays I was able to see that I need to use my shield way more and not really save some of my items. I was trying to treat it like Akai Katana where you can straight out dodge each and every bullet. Now, I am sure there is somebody out there that can, but I am not skilled enough to do it yet.

So yeah, what I can do is since I am changing the Overall to Conclusion, I will add in even more about replayability to it.

I mean, some stuff here and there will get cut out and, unfortunately, there is really no way around that. I am going to totally take the advice you guys are giving me and tone down the power-ups explanation and go in to other stuff even more.

I am just trying to find ways to still keep this around the 5-7 minute mark, but I truly want to jam pack as much information in this as possible. Things like graphics and sound, one of the big reasons for me wanting to ensure that those stay in is because I do not want to completely overwhelm the viewer with information. I mean, I want to jam pack as much information as possible, but keep a healthy balance so that I do not overwhelm the viewer.

As I learned from Trouble Witches Neo, dodging and power-ups are not different items and they are very much one and the same in that game. Thus far, the other games I have talked about, I can separate them, but the fact that to get anywhere in Trouble Witches Neo you need to use the shield, which is a power-up, well, that mixes them together.

I have all of the footage I need from Trouble Witches Neo, but that is going to be the 1st review I do with these changes (which will get posted up in 2 weeks). Like I said Aeternum is already done, so there is no going back on that one.

Again, I do appreciate the feedback and I am going to do everything I can to make these videos awesome and really try to show and talk about these enough to where after each video, you really have a good idea of what you are about to play if you want to play it (in case I hit one that others have not played. I have not really seen Aeternum on many lists, so I am guessing that not as many people have maybe played that one).
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by ACSeraph »

I've written for a few different websites in the past so I can make a few comments based on that experience. My comments have more to do with review style and format and less to do with shmups though.

First off as far as I'm concerned breaking a review into separate sections is not good form. It makes it easier to write, but it definitely feels forced. You should try to touch up on all of those different points while flowing naturally from section to section. Just talk about the game as a whole in detail; what you liked and didn't like as though you were explaining it to a friend. Natural is always better. None of the sites I ever worked for allowed separating reviews into sections for this reason.

Secondly on the topic of scoring. In my opinion the only score that is particularly relevant is the overall score. Really even that is nothing more than a rough numerical representation of the content of the review. Your conclusion is the most important part and should tell your viewers everything they need to know in a few short sentences. Also it's your review and your opinion so don't score something high or low because you feel pressured by the community. Always go with your own personal feelings about a game and then defend your stance within the review itself. A review is the opinion of the writer not the community. Just keep in mind you will have to defend your position well in the review and be knowledgeable about the game you are reviewing or the viewers won't respect your opinions.

Anyhow I'm not with any websites anymore but I still occasionally write reviews for the hell of it. Not a shmup review but here's one I posted last year on Gamefaqs that I think is a good example of a review that doesn't use broken down sections.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/3ds/643008-hats ... iew-150160

Also this is a great resource for people new to writing reviews:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000098- ... -critiques
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

I see what you are getting at. Split it up without splitting it up (i.e. talking about the graphics in a single paragraph makes sense and once I talk about that, there is not much of a need to go back, but don't physically splice up the video in to sections even if they do exist).

Yeah, it looks like the general feel I am getting from you guys is that I should really get rid of the sub scores and I agree. I am changing it to the end basically being a pass/fail type situation with recommending it or not.

A big part of doing this, and I know that communities are really good at rallying for and against something, is to make these to where I am not getting rallied against in the forums that deal specifically with shmups, like here. That is why I figured I would just go to the source, see what you guys think, and use your feedback to make it better accordingly. I would rather find out directly from you guys what you think now so that I can continue to improve instead of just assuming that what I do is perfect.

So yeah, I will do away with all categories then and just make it one solid review instead of a bunch of mini-reviews of sections.

I will incorporate a bunch of the changes in my Trouble Witches Neo review that is coming up here in 2 weeks. I just need to write out what I am going to say.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

My new one is up (Aeternum):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E8U38h9uEk

The game is super short, but very awesome. I talked with the developer and one of the things he is adding is a boss to the extra stage. That is the main item that is planned to come out for free via patch (he might have other things planned, but I did not find out what they were).

This is also the final week of doing it in this format. Starting next week is when I get rid of all categories and ratings (well, they are still there, but they are split up per paragraph instead of cut in to sections like it is now). I will give a final rating about whether or not the person should get it, but since that format that I am moving to seems to be the way everybody does it now and I want these to be seen as professional, then I should probably step up and do mine that way as well.

Next week is going to be Trouble Witches Neo.

I have no clue if I am going to go through all of the XBLIG games. I will talk about some though like I did Aeternum, but probably skip a bunch of them. Unless people want to see reviews of them, but a couple of the ones I played were really bad (not all of them are as Shoot 1UP and Aeternum show).
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by ACSeraph »

If I were you I'd just ignore indie games unless you think they are good enough to deserve a review and a recommendation. There's not much reason to warn people against a game that's extremely obscure even by shmup standards. Looking forward to seeing your new style next week.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by BrooksBishop »

Thanks for the Aeternum review! Glad you liked it.

I do think it's interesting that you found the game to be short. A play time of 25-30 minutes for a full run was actually my intention and goal. I picked that considering building up to the point of being capable of a 1CC by learning all the patterns and tricks probably takes someone a good few hours of practice, but then I didn't want an actual scoring attempt itself to take overly long.

Anyway, the additional boss is coming along. Slowly, but I am working on it! Jesse has already done a whole THREE new tracks for her too.
Aeternum a bullet hell on PC and Xbox Live Indie Games - @BrooksBishop - Aeternum OST
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

BrooksBishop wrote:Thanks for the Aeternum review! Glad you liked it.

I do think it's interesting that you found the game to be short. A play time of 25-30 minutes for a full run was actually my intention and goal. I picked that considering building up to the point of being capable of a 1CC by learning all the patterns and tricks probably takes someone a good few hours of practice, but then I didn't want an actual scoring attempt itself to take overly long.

Anyway, the additional boss is coming along. Slowly, but I am working on it! Jesse has already done a whole THREE new tracks for her too.
Honestly, for an indie game, it is done incredibly well.

I just personally felt that it was a little short, but even still, it was by and far worth the $1 that I spent for it and I would have been happy paying more. It is worth what I paid for plus some
ACSeraph wrote:If I were you I'd just ignore indie games unless you think they are good enough to deserve a review and a recommendation. There's not much reason to warn people against a game that's extremely obscure even by shmup standards. Looking forward to seeing your new style next week.
Yeah, I hit Aeternum because it was supposed to be really good and, well, it is really good. I just want to get through as much 360 stuff as I can now before I move to the next system since I know that once I move to the next system, I might not come back to 360 anytime soon. I have most of the XBLA shmups (I think I am only missing 1 or 2) and of the US physical releases, I am only missing Raiden 4.

After 360 I have not decided on whether to go to arcade or Genesis since I have been trying to get better at Bio Hazard Battle in my free time (not a tough game by any means, but the boss patterns and strategies for beating them keep throwing me off). I do have a few awesome arcade games though (I have a supergun, so I can record gameplay): I have Shienryu, P-47 Phantom Fighter and Radiant Silvergun.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by ACSeraph »

Rather than sticking with one system you ought to just make reviews for games that you feel strongly about and want to let people know about. If you think Biohazard Battle kicks ass and you want to let people know about it just go ahead and do it. The 360 won't be going anywhere.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

ACSeraph wrote:Rather than sticking with one system you ought to just make reviews for games that you feel strongly about and want to let people know about. If you think Biohazard Battle kicks ass and you want to let people know about it just go ahead and do it. The 360 won't be going anywhere.
Yeah, I probably should switch up systems every now and again to change up the pace some. I just like 360 ones right now since most of them have infinite continues and I can get through them in about 20 minutes, but it takes a few hours to really get good enough to make it through without dying constantly, but Genesis ones, those take days of practice on just a single level
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

I just posted up my new video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q750JfpfY4g

This one I made a ton of changes on, so hopefully you guys enjoy it.

Since I changed up the format, let me know what you guys think. I really tried hard to streamline the entire review.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by Moniker »

Great improvement! Well done. I'd only suggest a little more focus on the scoring, although you did touch on it. Also, the video acted a bit weird on youtube - skipping around randomly. I doubt it's anything on your end, though. Just an FYI. Keep 'em coming!
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by ptoing »

One thing that stuck out to me in the Akai Katana one.

"The system is not above average, but far away from below average." This statement makes no sense.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

My next one, which is already done, is going to be Triggerheart Exelica and I talk about the scoring on there some as well. I don't go super in depth in it, but I do try to explain what it is.

Also, for the "above average"/"below average", I worded that badly, so sorry about that. I was trying to say that it was good, but not super good, if that makes sense. I will watch how I word everything to ensure that I do not slip up like that anymore.

Also, another thing that I know is very subjective is talking about the graphics. When I get to the Genesis games, I know and realize that I am not going to bash a game on graphics because it can't do what the 360 can do. It is subjective based on the system I am playing it on (I mean, it is easy to tell if a game on the Genesis has good or bad graphics just like any other system)
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by ptoing »

No need to be sorry. I got what you wanted to say, just the wording was bad. If you don't already do this, I would suggest to write down each review before you record it and go over it to see how it sounds.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

Yeah, I do that now. I just messed up wording, oops.

Also, my latest one is now up.

This week I jump in to some Triggerheart Exelica. It is a really awesome game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2pjjtSCQiA
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by malchitos »

VideoGameRescue wrote:Yeah, I do that now. I just messed up wording, oops.

Also, my latest one is now up.

This week I jump in to some Triggerheart Exelica. It is a really awesome game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2pjjtSCQiA
I hadn't played it in awhile and your review made me play it for a few hours today. It really was a good game...need to dig out the DC version.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

Yeah, I was pretty blown away by the game. I had never touched it until the review. I was pretty blown away by how good of a game it is.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by ACSeraph »

I like your new style much better than the old broken up style. My only comment with regards to the Triggerheart review was that you claimed it didn't have a lot of replayability due to lack of features, story modes etc. While I agree the game deserved to take a hit for lacking stuff that was in the DC version, particularly the totally badass DC arrange mode, I think most of the people on this forum would think that replayability has more to do with the complexity and depth of the scoring systems than the existence of a story mode. Also good choice on using the stage four "block" section as your background video while discussing the anchor system. Seeing that will really drive home the importance of it.

Have you ever actively pursued 1ccs in shmups? I feel like your reviews have a casual ring to them, which isn't nessecarily a bad thing, but if you want to make some truly hardcore reviews you should pursue the long agonizing path of 1ccs and epic scores. It will completely change the way you view shmups. Not that you need to 1cc it before writing a review or anything, just going in with the 1cc mindset is enough imo.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

Yeah, that was the best spot I could think of to truly show how important the anchor system is. I mean, I am doing good at first, and then you can see that it all just falls apart for me. I could have used the footage I had of me making it through just fine, but, like in this case, I do like showing footage of my dying since it also shows how easy it is to die even if I am swinging a big shooting square.

As for 1cc's, I tried to 1cc Strania. I got to the last level before needing to continue. On DeathSmiles, if I am really pushing it, I can get to the 6th level (I think it is C-2) before continuing.

With the direction of making the reviews really hardcore, I guess I have not decided yet if I want to go in that direction. I am not saying I won't, but I just have not decided yet. It is one of those things where one of my goals was to show non shmup fans how amazing this genre is, which is why the deepest I would go is trying to explain how to play the game and give specifics on that. What I am coming to find out is that my audience is all shmup enthusiasts. There is nothing wrong with that as I am one myself.

So yeah, that is very much a future possibility, but I just have not hit that point yet in these videos.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

This week I jump in to Raiden Fighters Aces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPaxzVIXJOM

Based on the way things are going, next week will be Raystorm HD and the week after will be Sine Mora.
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by malchitos »

VideoGameRescue wrote:This week I jump in to Raiden Fighters Aces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPaxzVIXJOM

Based on the way things are going, next week will be Raystorm HD and the week after will be Sine Mora.

You have further reminded me I need to pick this up.
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Re: Shmup Central

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It is by and far the best value out there when it comes to a shmup on XBox 360. There is just so much to do in that game
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Re: Shmup Central

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This week I play some Raystorm HD on XBLA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3oTdsNG6Yg
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Re: Shmup Central

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Because I got Sturmwind, I jumped from 360 games for a little bit for Dreamcast games, so this week I do Sturmwind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEhkt_ck9jE

Next week, just because I already recorded the footage for it, I am doing Wartech on 360.

Since my DC is hooked up to my system, I have been dipping in to Giga Wing and enjoying it, well, after I stopped getting pissed and figured out the system and then realized that the game is not near as hard as I thought it was initially, so chances are Giga Wing 1 and 2 on DC will be coming up very soon (probably after Wartech)

I also decided, and this decision might change, but right now I am thinking of splitting Shmup Central in to seasons. I mean, I take a note out of Bullet Heaven's notebook where I only review legit copies. Either I own it or borrow it, but I don't use emulation for my reviews (and you can tell that happens in this review since I record on a HD, widescreen setup which does not stretch) and I own roughly around 50 shmups, maybe less. That means I would be done in about a year or 2, which would suck. I figured spreading it out over seasons would ensure that I have content to deliver
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Muchi Muchi Spork
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by Muchi Muchi Spork »

I've just watched the Sky Stage one but, you shouldn't (can't) judge difficulty based even partially off getting free play unlocked. It's still using continues, which is not beating a game. It's cheating (infinite lives). It doesn't make any difference what a difficulty is at that point because even a 2 year old could beat any game with infinite lives. Beating a game means beating it with no continues. Which also invalidates your scoring of the powerup system. It doesn't make any difference if you can't switch characters at game over because once you've continued it's just practice/cheating. You should judge a game just from what happens within just 1 credit.
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VideoGameRescue
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Re: Shmup Central

Post by VideoGameRescue »

That was my very first video that I had done and I have worked pretty hard to make improvements since I made that video.

EDIT: I do not talk about difficulty at all now unless there are cheap deaths from hard to see bullets or something, but, other than that, difficulty does not come up.

I have been really trying to not talk about the power-up system as much, but, even a couple months in, every now and again, I will accidentally go really in depth with a power-up system.

My end goal is that if a person has never played the game, that after my review, they will know how to play the game, how it actually plays, and then my personal opinion on whether or not they should purchase it as well as talking about some aspects as I go through. I probably do not need to talk about graphics and sound, but I still do in order to help keep the reviews not as intense. I mean, some reviews I can get pretty deep and technical in to how the game plays and runs, so to not push away people who are not massively in to shmups, I thought that talking about graphics and sound would keep at least a section of the review not as intense.
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