Bassa-Bassa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:14 pm
Lemnear wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:38 am
so the evolution roadmap ended with something like:
It's hard not to mention
Scramble and even
Cobra when listing Gradius. And
Sega's Bomber predates even Space Invaders, when talking about horizontal shooters. Just as an example. You're trying something quite difficult at that, mind. The genre, with its many branches,
is not as much about one-off milestones as it is about gradual evolution where every developer kept an eye on as many previous games as he could, even if he'll just mention this one or that other in an interview. There're obviously lots of titles that just didn't try anything new (or tried, but failed) since there isn't a genre as populated as this, but at the same time there're many as well which served as a model, even for stuff which may look like little details but actually aren't.
It's the first time i've read those titles...and Sega's Bomber looks pretty awesome for a 1977 game!
Yes for this i want a more "ordered map", because why do i play a game, i wonder "why is made in that way?" What are the reasons?
And i like the race among developers to reach the pinnacle and beat their contemporaries, or try to create something new to stand out from the crowd.
So if is gradual, i'm missing some parts of my puzzle.
Who contributed the most in terms of evolution?
What were the highest-grossing games that inspired others to copy them? and mostly, WHY they were best sellers?
This. Year by year, till now, should i make a scheme...but i'm already doing a table about another argument.
Lethe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:21 pm
Saying Cave clones are the end of anthropology is like saying 1945 was the end of history. After the stages were set by the early giants the genre has always been evolutionary over revolutionary. There were lots of weird innovative developers around when the commercial side of the genre was collapsing (Takumi, Treasure, Alfa etc). The influence of those late archetypes can be commonly found in the doujin sphere which has been the site of most innovation since the later 2000s.
But Takumi's games aren't CAVEfish games with a twist on the gameplay?
The most successful (and iconic) is for sure the shield in Giga Wing.
Treasure can't be imitated, their vision is too unique and conceptually high. Are the phylosophers of the SHMUPS developers (IMO).
Was Battle Garegga the first with a Rank System?
Or is "simply" the most complex Rank System ever? (probably one of the highest achievements ever achivied in the SHMUPS genre).
Steven wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:39 pm
Scramble is really cool. I love that game.
RayForce should probably be there too.
Lemnear wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:20 pm
In what way V-V was r/evolutionary, and other developers copied it?
Is Slap Fight different from their previous games?
V-V was the first game made in IKD's style. Batsugun was more Iwakura than it was IKD. Everyone loves IKD, right? I guess he's a cool and nice dude, judging by what people that I know that know him have said about him. Everyone seems to love his games and his style, but V-V is more of his thing than Batsugun is. V-V is a better and cooler game, too
Slap Fight is totally different from the previous Toaplan shooters, which consisted of Tiger-Heli and... nothing. V-V was thought for years to maybe be only a spiritual successor sequel to Slap Fight, but in that interview IKD just outright said that yes, it is the sequel to Slap Fight. Slap Fight had that sort of secret-finding thing that Radiant Silvergun has with the Dog Finder weapon but did it over a decade earlier and for its time has a large amount of enemy shots. It's the easiest Toaplan game by far (yes, it's significantly easier than Vimana), but once you clear a few loops, those enemy shots become extremely fast. So yeah, Slap Fight is one of the direct ancestors to what is now referred to as bullet hell considering what eventually came about due to Slap Fight's existence.
RayForce is technically incredible for a 1993 game, was tempted to thrown it in...but RayForce only evolved Xevious "Dual Layer" field , and then the branch ended with just a trilogy (maybe, there are RayForce clones? of its era or later).
I also like this "authorialism" of the SHMUPS.
Modern games are made by too many peoples to feel the "signature" of a specific mind, with specific intentions and a specific game vision.