New Sony Patent: Anti-used game RF tags.

[gameoverDude]

Source: Geek.com

Sony has patented a new RF based DRM system to block used games. The console could block the game and demand an extra fee be paid before the game will boot. And no internet connection would be required for the check.

I don't like this idea. It seems they are indeed trying to block the secondhand game market. Hopefully this draws even more flak than SecuROM. You want to take your new game to a friend's house and play it there? Nope. The use permission tag logs a unique media ID, along with the console’s ID, and user account ID. Spyware, IMO.

This will probably be used in PS4.

[Skykid]

This calls for my favourite 2007 quote, meant as sarcasm, turned out to be cold reality.

Oh well, SCEI is run by idiots, what can you expect...
Sony has got to be walking on crutches by now, with all that shooting in the foot

[Ganelon]

If Sony can get Microsoft on board, then this technology could be a great way for all companies in the video game industry to increase revenue, assuming it's not cracked in the first year. I'm not sure of the physics involved but aren't there ways to block RF signals? Related to that, when Sony's RF centers die out, will that cause authentication issues down the road?

Anyway, I do think there's a silver lining to this news: the more resources spent on physical media, presumably the less spent on digital media.

[The Coop]

If Sony can get Microsoft on board, then this technology could be a great way for all companies in the video game industry to increase revenue, assuming it's not cracked in the first year. I'm not sure of the physics involved but aren't there ways to block RF signals? Related to that, when Sony's RF centers die out, will that cause authentication issues down the road?

There is no "down the road" for game companies when it comes to customers. They only focus on the money, and keeping it coming in until their current projects can be called "dead." Whether the customers get fucked 1-5 years later, and can no longer play the games they legally bought, is irrelevant.

[EmperorIng]

companies buy or issue patents all the time - it usually doesn't mean anything as said patents are never really acted upon.

I agree with the Sony run by slobbering retards thing though.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Once they do this, I'll stop buying new games. Simple as that. I haven't purchased any downloadable game no matter how much I want to play some games and I haven't caved in because I don't like the terms. There's no way I will let greedy bastards have me by the balls with any draconian DRM. Put the games on a disc and let me do whatever I want with them or GTFO. There's so many games out there to collect that I don't give a fuck what they do. I'll just spend all my cash on old games.

/rant over

[Friendly]

companies buy or issue patents all the time - it usually doesn't mean anything as said patents are never really acted upon.

This. Someone at Sony came up with the idea and then they got the patent to prevent others from doing it. If they were to use it, then Nintendo would win the next round by default.

If Sony can get Microsoft on board, then this technology could be a great way for all companies in the video game industry to increase revenue

Sorry, but that's among the most ignorant/short sighted things I've ever read here.

No used games would lead to consumers buying far fewer games because they wouldn't be able to get any of their investment back (= less disposable income to put towards new games). Economies are not one way streets, money flows in a circular way. Niche titles would be hurt worst, because who would risk buyng games that don't belong to well established franchises?
Especially in Japan, used games are an integral part of game consumption. For the most part, people there don't have enough space to hoard old games. They complete a game, then sell it, get part of their money back to buy new games with. If you take this away, they will stop buying your games.

-

On the bright side, this is so INCREDIBLY anti-consumer that it would not fly at all in the European Union. There have been several rulings by constitutional courts (and even a directive, I think) saying that consumers should be allowed to sell used software; this came after Microsoft tried to block sales of used Windows licenses and software (so much for those EULAs stating you don't really own the software).

Last but not least, if there were no used games, you would never be able to purchase any older games that are no longer in print.

Anyway, this no-used games story came up before the current generation too, and of course it didn't happen then, just like it won't happen now.

EDIT: typos

[GaijinPunch]

Especially in Japan, used games are an integral part of game consumption. For the most part, people there don't have enough space th hoard old games. They complee a game, then sell it, get part of their money back to buy new games with. If you take this away, they will stop buiying your games.

Only partly right. While Japanese get paid shit and have higher cost of living than just about anywhere, they are pros at saving. From May. The reason the used market here is so big, is b/c renting games is illegal.

[Friendly]

One more thing, if this were to happen, I would simply stop buying games altogether. I bet I'm not the only one.

[EmperorIng]

Anyway, this no-used games story came up before the current generation too, and of course it didn't happen then, just like it won't happen now.

Pretty much this specter gets raised every couple of years, but it always subsides. It's a new bogeyman each time.

[GaijinPunch]

One more thing, if this were to happen, I would simply stop buying games altogether. I bet I'm not the only one.

It would be the nail in the coffin for me. Not that I'm buying many now -- digital downloading and the state of the gaming industry in general has already pushed me away.

[Skykid]

One more thing, if this were to happen, I would simply stop buying games altogether. I bet I'm not the only one.

What if it only applies to Sony consoles but the restrictions aren't in place on competitor consoles?

[Jeneki]

Sony has patented a new RF based DRM system to block used games.

Actually, this has existed since the 8-bit days, however the RF shield kept it from working right.

Also, remember that RFIDs do not survive a few seconds in a microwave. So the "fix" for this issue is to microwave all of your bluray discs.

Last but not least, if there were no used games, you would never be able to purchase any older games that are no longer in print.

Sure you would. On PSN as a digital download. At the full, original, undiscounted price.

[Daytime Dreamer]

Sony has patented a new RF based DRM system to block used games.

Actually, this has existed since the 8-bit days, however the RF shield kept it from working right.

Also, remember that RFIDs do not survive a few seconds in a microwave. So the "fix" for this issue is to microwave all of your bluray discs.

Last but not least, if there were no used games, you would never be able to purchase any older games that are no longer in print.

Sure you would. On PSN as a digital download. At the full, original, undiscounted price.

Nuke your games before you play them. I want to see this happening ...

[Ganelon]

Sorry, but that's among the most ignorant/short sighted things I've ever read here.

No used games would lead to consumers buying far fewer games because they wouldn't be able to get any of their investment back (= less disposable income to put towards new games). Economies are not one way streets, money flows in a circular way. Niche titles would be hurt worst, because who would risk buyng games that don't belong to well established franchises?
Especially in Japan, used games are an integral part of game consumption. For the most part, people there don't have enough space to hoard old games. They complete a game, then sell it, get part of their money back to buy new games with. If you take this away, they will stop buying your games.

Your first line was uncalled for. The difference here is that you're taking a completely consumerist point of view whereas I'm trying to understand the rationale of Sony's potential decision in an economic market. If you can't appreciate the latter, then the best you could do would be do respectfully disagree rather than foolishly run to an insult.

First of all, nobody said anything about eliminating used games. Rather, with this new system, Sony and/or publishers would be free to add on an extra fee to make buying used games less worthwhile compared to buying new games. The fee can be just enough to keep GameStop hanging in there (for the additional B&M exposure) and to keep consumers happy. There's still value in selling the disc; there would just be an additional "secondhand copy" license fee stricter than the online codes of today.

As for why game companies won't just price the licensing fee up to the cost of a new game, remember that the end goal of most game publishers (certainly all the major ones) is to increase profit. If the stakeholders price the license fee up so much that the game ends up losing sales due to issues such as the consumer's perceived lack of ownership value, then they won't be maximizing their revenue and will adjust until they reach the optimal point. If they find that the revenue peak results in previous supporters leaving, then so be it. You only need as many new people who start buying new games (who currently only buy used because it's a cheaper option, not because they have to) as people who leave because they feel they can't easily sell games off anymore. I feel confident it won't take much to make the former group much larger.

As for preservation, an RF tag that defaults to acceptance (as opposed to rejection) when a response isn't detected would actually be the perfect way to preserve games in the future while cutting out the attractiveness of used copies during the network's lifespan. But as I mentioned, the specifics would depend on implementation. If games can't be played anymore when the Sony RF system dies, then I'll be among the first to support its cracking.

Either way, this RF technology likely shouldn't be adopted immediately at the start of the new generation since it could weaken a new system's adoption. Unleashing it 2 years down the line when sales are stable and as a big hit is coming out would be ideal. That said, Sony is in a tough situation right now and could really use the additional per-game licensing fee to keep its other operations afloat. The real question, barring costs, would actually be whether Microsoft would agree to use this RF technology if offered. If they hold out and publishers don't flock to Sony's console, then it could be a great way for Microsoft to help force Sony under, take the patent (and other assets), and then unleash the technology.

[antron]

I recall a post here a few years back where someone was looking for a way to destroy a roommate's CD/DVD without leaving a mark, in revenge for what the roommate did to a game. The advice was to microwave it for a few seconds. If I recall correctly it worked. So microwaving the RF tag will probably destroy the game as well.

[Jeneki]

That was a joke suggestion.

Microwaving a disc always destroys it. Very spectacularly. With colored sparks flying everywhere and leaving awesome crack rings in the disc. I thought this was common knowledge, sorry if I was incorrect here.

[Specineff]

Even if implemented, it could be easily defeated in court. I do hope that no one at Sony finds a way to actually make it happen, though.

[antron]

Even if implemented, it could be easily defeated in court. I do hope that no one at Sony finds a way to actually make it happen, though.

It appears Vernor v. Autodesk ended up in favor of AutoDesk in the end, the Supreme Court declined Vernor's request for an appeal, and that Sony will legally get away with this in the US.

[gameoverDude]

Last but not least, if there were no used games, you would never be able to purchase any older games that are no longer in print.

There's a major reason that this would hurt. Also, if your original PS4 breaks and you buy a new PS4... you end up fucked. But then again, Sony made SecuROM and also put that manky XCP-Aurora DRM on music CDs. I don't trust them.

If they actually go with this, then may PS4 be Sony's swan song in hardware.

[shmuppyLove]

Last but not least, if there were no used games, you would never be able to purchase any older games that are no longer in print.

There's a major reason that this would hurt. Also, if your original PS4 breaks and you buy a new PS4... you end up fucked.

If I read the patent correctly, the mechanism could be used to 'attach' the game to the user account, which would alleviate this situation (and is something already done on Steam, for example).

[GaijinPunch]

If they actually go with this, then may PS4 be Sony's swan song in hardware.

It could borrow the melody from their countless other swan songs.

[gameoverDude]

Last but not least, if there were no used games, you would never be able to purchase any older games that are no longer in print.

There's a major reason that this would hurt. Also, if your original PS4 breaks and you buy a new PS4... you end up fucked.

If I read the patent correctly, the mechanism could be used to 'attach' the game to the user account, which would alleviate this situation (and is something already done on Steam, for example).

Steam's method is OK. It's never given me any problems. Then again, Steam is on PC which has a never-ending lifespan unlike a console. I'd be afraid of PSN eventually cutting PS4 support at that system's end of life, just as Xbox Live no longer supports the OG Xbox.

[BulletMagnet]

What if it only applies to Sony consoles but the restrictions aren't in place on competitor consoles?

Then Sony's screwed. I get the feeling that the three console companies are mainly sticking tentative toes into the water and taking a "see who blinks" stance for the moment when it comes to limiting the usability/value/availability/etc. of used games, as everyone wants to do it but nobody wants to be the first, thus absorbing the brunt of consumer backlash (and forcing the competitors' hands on the issue in a manner that will give their PR departments nightmares). Something tells me that if/when such measures are put into effect they'll hit us all at once across the spectrum, though that's just speculation on my part.

[Ex-Cyber]

The sneaky thing to do would be to ship the console with support for the locking scheme, but not actually ship locked games until later.

I'm not sure where I got such an idea.

[Skykid]

What if it only applies to Sony consoles but the restrictions aren't in place on competitor consoles?

Then Sony's screwed.

Makes you wonder why they're applying for a 'patent' doesn't it? Unless they consider the formula so technologically sound that they'll be licensing the technology to their competitors and massively increasing their revenue.

[EmperorIng]

They're applying for a patent the same reason MS applied for that patent of ads interrupting games and only resuming once you shouted "McDonalds!" at the TV. Patenting loony ideas is just something that companies like to do.

[ancestral-knowledge]

... MS applied for that patent of ads interrupting games and only resuming once you shouted "McDonalds!" at the TV

That's not true is it?

[Captain]

I honestly couldn't care less, I have never been able to buy any games/consoles to begin with due to living in an eldritch/shitty location.
I think I bought exactly 2 games in my whole life.
At least now I have the comfort that other people won't have it that good either.

[Friendly]

I honestly couldn't care less, I have never been able to buy any games/consoles to begin with due to living in an eldritch/shitty location.
I think I bought exactly 2 games in my whole life.
At least now I have the comfort that other people won't have it that good either.

You are a sad person. And I am sorry to hear about your terrible ailment that prevents you from earning money and actually paying for the games you enjoy so much.