Cosmic Predator - Completed

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SteelRiverGames
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Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Edit: Cosmic Predator has been released! If you're interested you can buy it on my website.

Hey guys. I wanted to get some feedback on my new project. Cosmic Predator is a side scrolling SHMUP made with Unity where your health slowly decreases, so you have to continuously feed on the blood drops left behind by fallen enemies to stay alive. The game also features an upgrade system where you can purchase power-ups at the end of a stage depending on how much blood you devour from downed enemies. I'm hoping to be able to make this into a commercial game for mac, windows, and maybe iOS at some point

Anyway this demo contains the first few levels. Let me know what you think and thanks for your time. Oh, and check out my website for more info if you want.

Screenshots:

Image

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Last edited by SteelRiverGames on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

The movement inertia is disgustingly high in the game; for keyboard play you should make movement instant and precise at a fixed speed (use maybe use shift as a slowdown button for more accurate dodging). The way it is now, if you move diagonally from a stop, it takes like half a second just for you to get up to full movement speed. It's horrible to control and simply not fun.

It's especially bad considering the shot speed is very high, the asteroids that explode and the first worm-like boss' shots are pretty much bullshit to dodge. This would is fine in an 8ing or Psikyo style shmup where movement has zero inertia and is very precise, but here the inertia completely kills the enjoyment. I get you're trying to make an upgrade system, and I'm fine with a progressive, more casual shmup where you can upgrade your shots and such over levels, but you start the game with absolutely useless movement - your movement should be capable of evading the game's bullets with or without upgrades.

The game itself looks like a great start; I love the biological style, the blood-eating animation, etc. It's really a nice theme that needs to be used more (especially with you playing as a biological creature as opposed to always fighting the aliens). You've also avoided pitfalls like having to mash to fire quickly which is a good thing; don't forget to add options to customize the controls or such in the full game.

It starts off a bit bland as your shot is nowhere near capable of killing all the asteroids and such that appear, but I'm sure that's to make that first upgrade you get much more exciting. It really wouldn't be all that bad of a start if it weren't for the movement inertia and acceleration thing ruining the gameplay. Movement that's more instant/slick akin to a horizontal shmup like Progear is strongly recommended (you could even have an alternate shottype that kicks in when you use slowdown that can be upgraded separately or something, dunno).
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SteelRiverGames
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Thanks for the great comments. The movement inertia was an issue I wasn't even aware of (guess I just unknowingly compensating for it during testing), but now that I've gotten rid of it, the controls feel much better.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

It's definitely a lot more playable now; instead of struggling just to dodge I'm actually noticing the finer details in the game like the first boss chasing another one of those squid aliens in the background, the smiley face he makes when he's rescued or unhappy look when damaged, etc.

The large orb -> 8 way explosion is really tough to dodge unless you're expecting it. Definitely feels like an R-Type game with a lot of memorization, but it's pretty fun! I found a bit of an exploit against the second boss; when he's so high or low that he's off-screen, his shots no longer appear. By luring him to the top of the screen then to the bottom repeatedly I got in 3 charged shots without him ever getting to shoot back (he happened to be in a pattern where he shot just as he was offscreen at the top & bottom). Unless this is intentional, maybe prevent him from being able to move that far offscreen?

The whole organism themed thing & charge shot actually kinda reminds me of a slower-paced Crying: Aseimei Sensou/Bio Hazard Battle for the Sega Genesis, heh.

I'd recommend making it so that if you accidentally bump into a large asteroid or whatever, you only take 1 damage as opposed to instantly die from full health. It's not like you're a frail spaceship, you're a creature that lives in space after all, it doesn't make sense for the green poison gas in stage 3 to do less damage than barely touching a rock does (actually, a few games like Strania and Bio Hazard Battle don't actually damage you if you bump into a solid object unless you're caught at the edge of the screen and crushed by the scrolling).

The upgrades screen has a couple of typos: the word shield is misspelled twice in the first two shield upgrades (the one that shoots shots is spelled correctly).

Another thing to add: the first boss fight where it fires that capture thingy, you can dodge it easily and spend a few minutes shooting at the boss to no avail. If someone plays this for the first time and doesn't realize the only way to progress is to let themselves get hit, I can see that being rather irritating to them.

I also notice the spreadshot weapon doesn't do any extra pointblank damage. Whether or not you hit the anemone-type enemies (or any others with all three shots or just one, it takes the same number of times fired to kill them with your basic shots. It's like it doesn't register extra damage if 2 or more shots it the same enemy at the same time.
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ShmupSamurai
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by ShmupSamurai »

Ummm...Am I the only one here who notices how akin this game is creature art-wise to Chimera Beast?? :shock:
Use Shumpman's advice!

"USE A BOMB!"
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SteelRiverGames
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Chimera Beast? I don't think I've ever heard of this game. Sounds interesting though, think I'll check it out.

Anyway, I made some updates.

-fixed the spreadshot weapon, hitting an enemy with multiple shots at once will do extra damage
-made the asteroids and other obstacles brighter so they don't blend into the background
-modified the large asteroids so they do damage and are destroyed after colliding with you
-changed the ending of the first boss fight so that he instantly traps you, like the beginning of the third boss battle
-fixed typos
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Aside from everything being space creatures, I'm not seeing any specific resemblences to Chimera Beast creature-wise. The player character reminds me more of a squid if anything.
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SteelRiverGames
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Work in Progress, Feedback Needed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Made some major updates on the demo for Cosmic Predator:

-The player's health now slowly decreases over time and eating enemy remains restores health. This was done to make going after enemy blood a more central part of the gameplay (aside from just collecting it to essentially buy power-ups between levels) and because it works well with controlling a predatory creature (you need to hunt and kill to survive, etc). I think it also helps give the gameplay more of a unique flavor.

-I redid a lot of the level artwork, particularly for the first two stages, to make them look more colorful and interesting.

-Changed around some of the "prices" for the power-ups to make the game a little more balanced. Also, the player now starts the game with a double shot to increase the power of the starting attack and make investing in non attack based upgrades a more viable strategy early in the game.

The link to the updated online demo is still in the first post of this topic or you can just click here to play it.

Thanks.
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SteelRiverGames
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Cosmic Predator is finally finished and is available for purchase on my website for $3.99. The game will also be available on Desura and other online distributors soon too. Thanks to everyone here who played or offered feedback on the game.

Here's a trailer I made for the game a little while ago.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Making a post outside of the dev forum in the general Shmups area would probably get more attention for the finished version; some people may never bother looking at the dev forum.
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Kaiser
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by Kaiser »

Yeah try posting your released game on the shmups chat subforum, they won't mind it there.
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SteelRiverGames
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Okay thanks. Sorry about that.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by n0rtygames »

SteelRiverGames wrote:Okay thanks. Sorry about that.
No need to apologise to us in here man. It's for your own benefit. Something we've been discussing a lot lately is how to get more exposure for western hobby/indie/doujin stg stuff - as people don't really come in here much while a game is under development.

Good luck with the game :)
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Yeah, definitely make an 'official' release post in the main shmups chat. Just bought it myself, looking forward to it.

I like that you made a PDF game manual with it. I love browsing 'em before playing. One thing did concern me though:

"If you think you’re nearing the end of a sector and you’re low on health, you might want
to focus on avoiding enemy attacks. Even if you reach the next sector with almost no
health, you’ll still be able to continue from there if you die."

Hopefully it's possible to get through the entire game without needing to use any continues (as in there's enough blood to make it from level to level without running out)? Only issue with the interface so far is that you can't navigate the menu with the arrow keys, feels weird for a keyboard game to use mouse menu navigation.

WHOA OKAY HANG ON

I think you have a major bug with the first release. I cannot collect any blood at all. The orbs fly to my mouth as usual, but they just float in front of my mouth regardless of whether I keep shooting or not - I get no life back, the blood 'points' meter stays at 0, and when I end the scene, the blood orbs just chase after me as I fly offscreen, and I die on the next scene due to not being able to recover health over time. :/

Methinks this'll need a patch? This is doing it on all three of the selectable difficulty modes. Help!

PC version, Windows XP... game runs fine otherwise, but it's currently unplayable due to the impossible to collect blood. I just downloaded the demo you posted, and you can't drink blood on that version either! Were you testing the game using an infinite health debug option? Or the Mac version perhaps? I've just tried this on a Win XP and a Win 7 machine and both experience the same blood not being collected issue.


edit: bug's been fixed, go buy the game guys
Last edited by BareKnuckleRoo on Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SteelRiverGames
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Tested using the mac version. Looking into it now though. Should fix it soon. Also you can go through the game without dying (in fact the game keeps track of your deaths).
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Woo, you fixed it. Hooray for same day patches. :lol:

A few minor things:

* Love the graphics and the music. The organic creature vibe and the rather atmospheric music feel great when at fullscreen, really good stuff here.

* The health loss over time is a bit of a hit or miss, I think. There's only 2 other shmups I can think of that have tried this: WispLisp Array of List, a game the author refers to as a kusoge (and it is really weird), and Sine Mora, which is either way too forgiving or absurdly hard depending on whether you pick story or arcade. It's done best here where the health drain is quite slow, but the penalty for being hit is very high. I haven't run into a situation where I'm too low on health that I can't get through a section due to a lack of enemies, but in a boss fight the health drain can be annoying. If you enter with very little health (you've put large blood enemies before bosses I see though) or get hit during a boss fight, it's possible to not have enough health left to actually beat the boss in time, so you might as well suicide (since you get free continues). It's not a mechanic I think I'm particularly fond of, but admittedly it does work the best out of any shmup I've seen it in here, and it does give you that feeling of being desperate for food.

* The speed powerup would be nicer if it gave you the ability to toggle between low/normal speed and high speed, like Super Star Soldier or simply a button where holding it down reverts to low speed, etc. If you get the speed powerup but still have the basic level of shot power, it can be very difficult to line shots up with enemies (compared to a shmup where you fire tons of bullets and can more easily 'sweep' the screen with fast speed). The necessity to be able to line up shots would make having a 3rd speed control button make this powerup more useful. It's handy to have, but getting it means you need to get used to the massive speed increase and adjust accordingly, even in tight or cramped areas where you might want the slower movement.

* The charge shot is almost definitely the idea way to go. With basic firing speed being so low, the main gun pales in comparison to the sheer usefulness of the charge beam. Charged shots rip through enemies as it is, but the beam allows you to 'sweep' more effectively than even the spreadshot does. It's way, way too good. Bosses basically vanish the moment you open up the beam on 'em (the last two bosses went down on my first try thanks to the beam). :P

* The beam charge seems to be on the 'top' animation layer... which means if you fire the beam as an enemy shoots at you, the beam effect will hide the enemy bullet. This is generally considered a no-no in modern shmups. Top layer should always be enemy bullets so your own shots don't hide/cover enemy attacks (the main exception to this being bombs that give you invulnerability, you're not at risk of getting hurt when a bomb is onscreen and bombs usually wipe out bullets anyways).

* Enemy variety and shot types are a bit limited. The detail in the final levels are nice, but there's a lot of repetition in enemy attacks (8 way spreads, dense spreads. When you're seriously powered up enemies tend to die before they can even pose much threat. Consider toning down much damage you do, or (as some games do) make some of the larger enemies invulnerable until they get a chance to fire their first volley at you, etc. You've got the game engine down, it's just a matter of making the challenges in the levels themselves more interesting in a sequel or whatnot.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Wow. Thanks for the very detailed comments. Glad you liked the environments, I spent a lot of time trying to get the right vibe. As for the beam, the intention was to give the player a really great power if they were willing to forgo other power-ups early on and save up for it. But judging from your experience (and the experiences of a few other players I talked to) I think I still need to nerf it a bit in a future update. Anyway, thanks again for the comments and I hope you enjoyed it.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

All in all, the price point gave me a game I expected. Looks nice, bit more of a casual shmup than I'm normally into, but enjoyable enough to replay a few times with the unlockable Survival Mode and the ability to try out various upgrade combinations. I see a lot of pallete/retextured versions of the playable creature, might be nice to have alternate colour schemes unlockable too if it's not too difficult to implement.

Some kind of scoring system would be nice and would add to the replayability. It could also do with a bit of extra polished touches like the ending screen pointing out that you've unlocked an extra difficulty and mode (granted it should be obvious to anyone, but still), and a screen showing you what upgrades you cleared the game with (so you can keep track and try out a different set of upgrades next time).

The blood attraction upgrade seems a tad overpriced. The health boost (which seems a must if you're trying for a no deaths run since you'll usually be only a couple hits from death without it) is only 30 whereas the blood magnet's a whopping 120 (with spread being only 100!). It's not like Frantic where enemies drop tons of cash and you're limited in movement by the density of the bullets... most of the blood in the game is easily collected, and you may miss a half dozen small orbs at most, a negligible amount compared to the cost of the blood attractor!

I think the reason the beam feels overpowered is partly due to how the speed charge ability makes it amazingly good. Charge shots already deal a ton of damage, with the beam making it amazingly easy to hit with - if you had to charge twice as long to go from the orb shot to the beam (as in an additional charge level) it might balance things?

Still not fond of the health drain over time. You can get enough blood to replenish health in stages, but now that I'm playing Elder God, 1 hit basically means death versus a boss... you lose too much health to kill the boss before your health runs out (I'm playing with the health boost but without using charge shot). If you don't have the health to actually kill a boss in time, and you die even if you're not hit again, what's the point? Just kill the player and be done with. It'd feel less jarring if the game dropped your health over time but didn't actually kill you for running out of blood - it just meant the next hit would kill you, at least for boss fights.

Counter wave and rear shot are icky. Counter wave requires getting hit, which won't save you when colliding with an asteroid or solid object does massive or instant damage (and destroys the object anyways) and simply is not worth the price when you can get close range fire shots for even cheaper. Most of the time you're hit by enemy bullets while far away or by objects that can't be killed... Rear shot is basically never needed unless an enemy gets by you (and the amount of blood lost from a few small enemies isn't enough to justify having it for this).

An upgrade that would come in handy is something to increase the width of your shots or firing speed. Your shots are thin and have a slow firing rate - the inability to kill enemies in a timely fashion is probably what makes this game the toughest. Even with spread and flame enemies at a distance can be tricky, especially by the fire level where positioning gets extremely tricky. Enemies fire three way spreads at you while you have to avoid wandering into the path of the fireballs being launched... this is actually the toughest level of the game, IMO.

Speed charge + charge shot is ridiculously useful. Possibly the single biggest offensive upgrade you can get, other than going from the charge shots to the beam. The basic shots even when upgraded just don't stand up to the charge shot's sheer power. Actually, the beam isn't even as useful, simply because you get it so late, and the speedy charge is what makes charge shots powerful, beam or otherwise.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Elder God beaten, now to do it with 0 deaths

Also I made a kinda sort of critique on your upgrade list... On the easier difficulties, the game is so forgiving you can go with pretty much whatever so experimenting is more fun, but on the higher difficulty modes, you start off so weak that putting thought into each upgrade is much more important.

Stuff like bloodlust would be better if during the effect it made your shots significantly wider as opposed to a bit stronger - the difficulty in reliably hitting enemies is what makes the shots feel sorta weak. The tailgun and vertical shots are mostly useless; the game never throws anything at you where they'd be seriously useful, aside from the Balaera that summon debris from the top/bottom of the screen, paying 120 just to stop those seems a bit much. The fire breath seems like a good purchase, but the damage upgrade isn't enough to justify it, and you get much more bang for your buck by paying 100 for spread (which does extra pointblank damage and hits at long range diagonally). The 'upgrade' that speeds up your charge shot balls actually makes them worse, the slower balls hit stuff longer and you can have multiple balls onscreen with living dynamo. Basically, the upgrade system is a cool idea in theory, but it's currently got some balance issues, and there's some clearly bad or too expensive upgrades on there that make it harder if you pick them.

you should probably take all this with a grain of salt, though, I realize it might be your first shmup and it's probably not aimed at really hardcore shmup fans :p

Edit: I AM SPACE CTHULU

Image

Okay, maybe I've been a tad obsessed with perfecting this game, but hey, I did finally no-death the hardest mode (without the beam too, I didn't quite have enough for the beam after the third or second last level, I got greedy and bought the spinny shield and didn't save enough at the final upgrade point, 147 =( ).

Having the spreadshot for stages makes such a serious difference. I've tried going full defense (as many of the guarding/shield items) and the build fails miserably because you can't kill anything in a timely fashion, which having shields simply doesn't make up for. Ignoring the shot upgrades and going only for charge/beam boosts again leaves you without any spread, and there's tons of times where the spreadshot's angled blasts kill orange snappers for me or the extra pointblank damage clears debris. I think maybe your default/base strength level is just too weak to enjoy experimenting with unorthodox builds? I've had way too many deaths now where I get hit, pass a checkpoint, then die a few seconds into the next one. Not fun. Having blood recover a small amount of life does make the game more forgiving, and I think it's not a bad idea considering you're probably hoping to get more casual gamers to be interested in the game and the game does have a fairly large hitbox, but the losing health over time results in some silly deaths... health loss over time I think is a mechanic I'm just not fond of in shmups. I'm always used to being able to fight and not give up even when you're one hit away from a gameover, on the brink of death, instead of having situations where I know I got hit and my health is too low to make it through the rest of the area/boss without dying.

Ultimately I'd like to see more 'organic' shmups in this style as opposed to always spaceships or such... a sequel would be cool, though I think you'd have more success if you made things a bit 'busier'... more enemies, shots onscreen, add a scoring system, decrease the hitbox size a bit, and so on.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by SteelRiverGames »

Congrats! You're the only person I know of (other than myself) who's done a no death run of Elder God. I'm glad you felt motivated enough to do it.

I've been reading through your comments on the game. No one has ever written so in depth about one of my games before and I'm really enjoying it. I personally like the extra layer of tension that steadily decreasing health adds to shmups (like the timer in Sine Mora). I still think the mechanic fits well with style of the game and adds a lot, but I understand why you're not a fan of it.

I also loved your critique of the upgrades and I do think it'd be worthwhile for me to try and tweak them a bit (at the very least adjust some of the prices) even though the game is a more casual shmup.
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Re: Cosmic Predator - Completed

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Finally got around to recording a full playthrough. It's just the normal difficulty (I'm rather rusty at the game) but I'll try and upload an Elder God run too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg9lUwsmzP4

Aaaaand done. Recorded a deathless Elder God run with no charge shot (which makes the final boss in particular a good deal more difficult).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJGRgkcYuwM
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